Lenovo Thinkcentre/ThinkStation Tiny (Project TinyMiniMicro) Reference Thread
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I just got 3 M702q and was hoping that 1 a 3-5 posts had everything summed up for the proper risers and either 2-4port 10/5/2.5/1 gbe card or a 2-4port 2.5gbe. Anyone know of such post I should be looking at.. 117 pages is alot of reading
Hello, Lenovo's US support website lists BLD Tiny8 PCIex4 Riser card w/ part number 5C50W00909 for the Gen 5. I don't see the x16 riser in the official list for the gen 5; however, I suspect that it would work just fine if they're using the same x4 part number as the previous generations. That part is BLD Tiny8 PCIex16 N Riser card w/ part number 5C50W00933.
I believe these are the same part numbers from the first post. I do understand why you asked though. This thread is heavily biased towards the much older Tiny's (720/920). There is far less information available about Tiny 8's. I still have an unanswered question from the last past about what SFP+ cards people have managed to get work in the 90q Gen3. :-(
Thanks for pointing me into BLD page. Indeed for some reason only x4 seems to be officially supported which is fine anyway for my needs.
Not sure if this doc is hidden somewhere in this thread but i also find it nice.\
Power Configurator: Lenovo ThinkStation P3 Tiny
Not sure if this doc is hidden somewhere in this thread but i also find it nice.\
Power Configurator: Lenovo ThinkStation P3 Tiny
Right, update on the UEFI/BIOS adventure to get above 4g decode working on the P330. The long and short of it is that I can do a search for the required modules on UEFI tool, it will tell me they are there, but due to Lenovo's proprietary BIOS structure, I don't actually have the ability to edit them. The GUID 3C1DE39F-D207-408A-AACC-731CFB7F1DD7 exists, but it isn't in the list of modifiable/readable headers. The same is true when I search for "above 4G" and "4G decod". Search results, but no way to actually navigate to them.
The conclusion is that the hardware is definitely capable of it, but Lenovo have (for reasons that I do not understand) elected not to make it available to the owners of their hardware with respect to the P330. The only avenue I have left for exploration is the DSDT modification, which I've started to explore but is a bit beyond my skillset at this point. I've got as far as discovering the errors and dumping the hex file out, but how to go about resolving them is beyond me. That's also the starting point for modifying the DSDT to switch above 4G decode on. If anyone has a modified DSDT file for the P330 that turns above 4G decode and ReBar on, that would be extremely helpful.
If I can't resolve it through DSDT modification and/or successfully petitioning Lenovo to release a P330 BIOS with both above 4G decode and ReBar available in the options, it's essentially rendered the Arc Pro A40 that's in my P330 useless. The same will be true for any Tiny of the same era and it looks as if Lenovo have been leaning even more into the non-standard BIOS for the P340 onward, so that problem is likely to have got worse rather than better.
The conclusion is that the hardware is definitely capable of it, but Lenovo have (for reasons that I do not understand) elected not to make it available to the owners of their hardware with respect to the P330. The only avenue I have left for exploration is the DSDT modification, which I've started to explore but is a bit beyond my skillset at this point. I've got as far as discovering the errors and dumping the hex file out, but how to go about resolving them is beyond me. That's also the starting point for modifying the DSDT to switch above 4G decode on. If anyone has a modified DSDT file for the P330 that turns above 4G decode and ReBar on, that would be extremely helpful.
If I can't resolve it through DSDT modification and/or successfully petitioning Lenovo to release a P330 BIOS with both above 4G decode and ReBar available in the options, it's essentially rendered the Arc Pro A40 that's in my P330 useless. The same will be true for any Tiny of the same era and it looks as if Lenovo have been leaning even more into the non-standard BIOS for the P340 onward, so that problem is likely to have got worse rather than better.
I believe The P330 has two bios/firmware chips and you can't do a proper read and write without disordering them from the board and flashing them individually with a chip programmer and some bios splitting. Annoyingly I can't find the link to the guys blog that figured this out. I was really interested in unlocking voltage control since in a desktop board my CPU can be undervolted a fair whack and stay stable so I spent weeks trying to figure out a way to flash a modded bios. If you do ever manage it please PM me as ReBar would mean intel cards would become viable in the m920q/m720q/P330.
I don't suppose you still have the original Lenovo heatsink/heatpipe cooler? I have a P330 with the CPU cooler that is compatible with this type of heatsink for the GPU but I can not find anywhere to buy it. Very curious to see if yours would be compatibleP360 Tiny Quadro T1000 heatsink mod:
Hi,
I'm sharing my experience with adding Quadro T1000 to P360 Tiny. It's officially supported GPU, so it works out of the box (detected by BIOS, etc)
There are two kinds of these cards available:
1. PNY or any other generic OEM. Single slot low profile with small aluminum heatsink and fan. Brand new sometimes comes with two generic ATX rear brackets (high and low profile). None of these brackets will fit these tiny machines. But it's possibly to purchase original Lenovo rear bracket or just carefully use without bracket at all like here on photo:
View attachment 41586View attachment 41587
2. Original Lenovo card comes with correct bracket and passive heatpipe. It's exactly same PCB, just with different cooling. Lenovo designed it to be silent by default. It basically reuse CPU fan for cooling down GPU. Heat pipe transfers heat to small heatsink that should be mounted close to CPU.
I've purchased used generic card because it was much cheaper. It was too loud. Most likely card has been used actively and the fan is already worn out. That was fine for me. I've ordered that original Lenovo heatsink. But observed that it'll not fit my system:
View attachment 41588
My initial idea was that I purchased wrong heatsink. But later I found that this thing is compatible only with 35W CPU. And 35W CPU comes with smaller fan. And in such case there will be space to mount T1000 heatsink...
As a plan B I've tried to relubricate this used T1000 fan but it became even worse... Here is photo of fan if somebody will try to find it:
View attachment 41589
Then I've tried to replace this fan completely. But I was not able to find original fan. Purchased a few 'replacement' fans (it should be 4pin PWM, 45mm diameter with 3 mounting holes with 39mm distance). It helped a bit, but I was not comfortable with them. Looks like their quality is worse than original fan.
My problem was 'idle' noise. I don't use that card actively. The goal was to passthrough GPU to Windows VM when needed. And disable it somehow if it's not needed. Unfortunately card don't do power management good enough. Even idle card consumes at least 10W of power. I've tried both Windows, Linux with nouveau and Linux with proprietary drivers. VRM area is hot and it don't have any heatsinks, etc. It's designed to be cooled down by air flow from GPU fan...
So my next idea was to somehow cooldown VRM area with hope that this will reduce fan speed. These components even under no load are so hot that it's impossible to touch them. So here was my setup for some timee:
View attachment 41590View attachment 41591
And it mostly works. not ideal, but much better. And I got idle fan speed. Unfortunately on this T1000 card idle is around 30% of maximum. So fan is noticeable.
Btw card works with detached fan connector. But even on idle passive cooling is not enough... Temperature goes up and eventually system fan (CPU fan) goes to almost maximum speed. I think somehow BIOS knows about this T1000 card, communicates with it and adjusts CPU fan to cool down GPU (and this will work for 'official' card and 35W CPU where they share same fan)
This was my working setup for a few months. But later I've found on Lenovo forums that somebody asked where to buy this original heatpipe: English Community-Lenovo Community And this PDF file was shared: https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/thinkcentre_pdf/ts_p3_tiny_power_configurator_v1.0.pdf The most interesting page for me was this:
View attachment 41592
So P3 Tiny supports 65W CPU and T1000 at the same time!. And again. It's custom heatsink with fan again. There was link to some Aliexpress seller that sells something similar to this heatsink. But I was not sure that it'll fit. I've found another seller on Aliexpress with free return and ordered it. And got this thing:
View attachment 41593 View attachment 41594
Note that it covers these VRM components! It fits almost perfectly. It's fully compatible with generic T1000 card. The only difference is that it requires different screws. Original T1000 comes with M2 screws (and they are same for 35W heatsink). But this new one requires M2.5 screws.
Card doesn't fit P360 Tiny case by default because of this:
View attachment 41595
But it can be easily fixed with pliers. And here is final result:
View attachment 41596
Everything works, fits. It's almost silent when idle.
Note that on photo from Lenovo PDF there is some metal shield near display port connectors. I think it was designed so that heat goes only up outside. P3 Tiny can have new top cover with more holes. I was not able to find it for reasonable price yet but it should looks like this: Lenovo ThinkStation P3 Tiny (30H0000FFR) - PC - LDLC 3-year warranty
Now a few notes related to GPU passthough to Windows VM: Unfortunately Lenovo screwed up with P360 BIOS. There is no way to make NVIDIA GPU secondary. There is option in BIOS setup called "Primary display" with three possible values: AUTO, PEG, IGD.
- AUTO and PEG do exactly same thing: NVIDIA graphics is primary, where BIOS is displayed and that is used by default until OS loads drivers.
- IGD makes Intel default (that I want). But unfortunately in such case NVIDIA GPU completely disappears from system. It's not present in `lspci`, or Windows device manager. Like not installed at all. So absolutely useless
I was still able to passthough by using PEG option and adding extra hacks to unload all framebuffer drivers, etc. But downside is that I can't access BIOS anymore and see system boot loader (because monitor is plugged to Intel card).. Btw looking-glass works well with this card. And have bonus: since it's Quadro card, it's possible to plug 'virtual' monitor to it. No dummy plugs needed.
As about power management: I've found that card is consumes less power with `nouveau` driver loaded with full modeset, comparing to `vfio_pci`. It's very clear (just replacing vfio_pci with nouveau reduces fan speed). So I'm using qemu hook to switch modules when needed.
Hope it'll help somebody to save time and money
I still have it. It's very difficult to buy it anywhere except Aliexpress. Anything I can do to help you?
This may explain why I also can't set my BIOS ISO USB key to be included in the boot order. Thanks, you've given me some more search terms to explore. I'll drop you a PM if I do manage to sort it out. This is wandering into the realms of "just buy an MS-01" now though.
After going back to some images I have saved I don't think it will be compatible. I purchased one for the P350 and the heatsinks at the end of the heat pipe isn't offset far enough. Looks like the P3, P340, P350 and M90q all use a different CPU heatsink that is wider at backside. The first image I have attached is the one I need but you can only get it when you buy the P1000 with it. At £887.52 no one is ever going to purchase it.
I have already tried the one in the second image (FRU 5A71F30922) it is not compatible with the P330/M920q/M920x/M720q. FRU 02CW392 looks to be the only one compatible (currently out of stock at Lenovo) . Hopefully this info will save someone some time and money.
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You should still be able to set your USB with a bios in the boot order. I've done this myself to update the bios with one from Lenovo. I'm pretty sure I was on the win-raid forum search for m720q/m920q bio's mods when I came across the link. If I come across it again I will post it here and PM you. Yeah its definitely the smarter/less time consuming move, but where's the fun in that?!
That's interesting. When I press the * or / keys in my primary boot order, anything that is excluded from the boot list is stuck there. I've checked through all of the security settings and I can't see any obvious reason why I can't change them. I was also trying to update to the most recent BIOS, but it recognises the USB key but won't let me re-enable them and add them to the boot list.
Maybe try a different USB port. If you have previously excluded something from the boot order I think you have to press the 'x' key to toggle it back to included. There is also a bios setting under security called "smart USB protection" which needs to be disabled to boot from USB's.
One more photo to your collection. I purchased this as T1000 for P360 Tiny. But again. I'm not sure that it fits. Not even tried to install it because it doesn't work with 65W CPU.
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Btw ZombieBiceps, if you're going to install something not officially supported (like T1000 to P330/M920) with such heatpipe, I suggest you to to double check first. This design with reusing CPU fan for GPU heatsink requires cooperation between CPU and GPU. So for GPU-only load GPU should somehow tell BIOS to raise fan speed (even if CPU is cool).
This works with P360 Tiny and T1000. Most likely BIOS knows how to query GPU temperature.I'm sure that it'll work with P1000 and P330 because it's tested by Lenovo. But I'm not sure about T1000 and P330. If you've T1000 with stock NVIDIA heatsink, I suggest to install, disconnect fan connector and wait 5-10 mins (surely monitor temperatures). Eventually CPU fan should go to almost maximum RPM.
This works with P360 Tiny and T1000. Most likely BIOS knows how to query GPU temperature.I'm sure that it'll work with P1000 and P330 because it's tested by Lenovo. But I'm not sure about T1000 and P330. If you've T1000 with stock NVIDIA heatsink, I suggest to install, disconnect fan connector and wait 5-10 mins (surely monitor temperatures). Eventually CPU fan should go to almost maximum RPM.
That's a really good point actually, I have a T600 in the P330 at the moment but I did previously have a P1000 but the CPU fan seems exactly the same, at least to the ear. I've actually just ordered the T1000 cooler you linked me previously from aliexpress since that should actually work better than the stock Nvidia heatsink even in the P330. Hopefully the lack of vent holes on the top of the P330 won't be an issue. When I get that cooler I will do some tests and post which cooling solution works the best incase anyone else is looking for the lowest GPU temps and noise.
Did you find the cooler from aliexpress to be better than the stock Nvidia cooler?