Internal and external SAS on the same card

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gargravarr

Member
Jul 1, 2021
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Hey folks. New user but longtime home server admin. I'm running a small mini-ITX NAS using a U-NAS NSC-800 chassis. It's very cramped with very little room, and being ITX, only one PCIe slot.

I've only used SATA disks in the past, but I got an extremely good deal on some large SAS disks, so I'm converting my setup to use SAS. I've checked and the backplane in the chassis supports it, so I need an HBA. I need 8 internal ports as I'm intending to use 6 disks. My NAS runs Debian Linux and will be running a ZFS RAID-Z2.

Also, I'm using tape for backups. I bought a very cheap Dell PowerVault 114X with an LTO-5 drive in it and a 6Gb SAS interface. It would make a lot of sense to have the ability to plug the tape drive directly into the NAS, as it would mean I could back up directly from the disks instead of crossing my LAN to another server.

However, I'm not finding a lot in that market sector. It's either LSI cards with 4 internal, 4 external, or much older cards that are only SAS-1 compatible. Can anyone help me fulfill these requirements please:
  • SAS-2 PCIe card
  • Support at least 8 internal drives.
  • Support at least one external connector for a tape drive
  • JBOD, no RAID
  • At least 6Gb, optionally 12Gb (drives will support it, but not hugely important)
  • Ideally SFF-8087 internal connectors
  • Ideally SFF-8088 external connector
  • No longer than a 3ware 9650SE card (won't fit in the chassis otherwise)
Many thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:

nthu9280

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2016
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San Antonio, TX
One option comes to my mind is Adaptec ASR-78165. While that is a SAS-2/6gbps card it is with 8643 & 8644 ports. Make sure small fan is actively cooling it. It has extra external ports that you may not use. They can be set to HBA mode.
search the forums here there should be some threads on that variants in the same family Such as 71605 etc
 

gregsachs

Active Member
Aug 14, 2018
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One option would be one of the LSI -4i/-4e cards with an expander, such as the intel RES2SV240, which can be powered via molex.
Unfortunately, chia has pushed those through the roof it looks like..
Other idea is just run a -16i and put a 3/4" hole in the chassis to snake a cable out or put in a sff8088/8087 bulkhead connector.
 

i386

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Mar 18, 2016
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It's very cramped with very little room, and being ITX, only one PCIe slot.
  • SAS-2 PCIe card
  • Support at least 8 internal drives.
  • Support at least one external connector for a tape drive
  • JBOD, no RAID
  • At least 6Gb, optionally 12Gb (drives will support it, but not hugely important)
  • Ideally SFF-8087 internal connectors
  • Ideally SFF-8088 external connector
  • No longer than a 3ware 9650SE card (won't fit in the chassis otherwise)
  • the hba has to run very cool under load :D
With these requirements I would rethink the whole system and revalidate that the chassis is still the best choice.
 
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ari2asem

Active Member
Dec 26, 2018
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The Netherlands, Groningen
like @nthu9280 said....adaptec 78165 is your best friend. 8 external ports, 16 internal ports.

advantage of 78165 is that it has a 3 or 4 pin fan port on it. just put 40mm fan (10mm or whatever thickness) on heatsink of the controler and you can goooooooo
 

gargravarr

Member
Jul 1, 2021
36
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Great, thanks everyone for the replies.

I've sat down and worked out the costs. I can't get the ASR-78165 secondhand where I live (UK), I would have to order it from the States (it's too pricey new). However, that, plus a pair of SFF-8643 to SATA breakout cables, plus an 8644 to 8088 external cable for the tape drive, would come to a fairly respectable £125. Annoyingly though it only includes a low-profile bracket - I'll have to adapt something to fit the full-profile slot.

Using a 16-port internal card (e.g. ASR-71605) and adapting the chassis by adding an external socket and passthrough would cost £30 more and need much more modification, though all the parts are available in the UK.

Looks like the former option is the best, though it may take a while to get here.

Have I missed anything?
 

ari2asem

Active Member
Dec 26, 2018
745
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The Netherlands, Groningen

gargravarr

Member
Jul 1, 2021
36
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The backplane has 8* SATA, currently with 2x 4-way SFF-8087 breakout cables. I didn't really want to dig into the thing cos it's very tight but seems like the best option.

Might upgrade the fans while I'm there...
 

gargravarr

Member
Jul 1, 2021
36
1
8
Hey folks,

Reviving an older thread, but I'm running into issues.

I bought the ASR-78165 and it works okay, aside from running quite seriously hot - I have an 80mm thin fan sitting on top but even then it's running around 80'C (though Arcconf says this is Normal...).

The problem is that whilst the internal HDDs and connecting to a plain external tape drive works normally, I cannot connect to a tape library:

This causes the entire card to lock up and freeze access to the disks until rebooted. I can't see any reason for this. Additionally it only seems to pass a single SCSI LUN from the library (the drive itself) and not the LUN for the robot. This is very annoying as I recently got a very nice batch of high-end tape libraries to play with.

People on the Homelab discord have suggested that the Adaptec card in HBA mode just isn't up to the job. Anyone know if this is the case? If so, is there a more suitable card out there? Same requirements as the first post.

Otherwise I may look into getting a large number of internal ports and bodging an external connector onto the bracket.
 

i386

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2016
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I bought the ASR-78165 and it works okay, aside from running quite seriously hot - I have an 80mm thin fan sitting on top but even then it's running around 80'C (though Arcconf says this is Normal...).
that's normal.
this is from a smartraid 3162 in a sm 745:
Screenshot 2022-05-25 114337.png

I had somewhere a link to specs of an older roc and I think the operation temps could be up to 100°C for the ic
 

gargravarr

Member
Jul 1, 2021
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that's normal.
this is from a smartraid 3162 in a sm 745:
View attachment 22963

I had somewhere a link to specs of an older roc and I think the operation temps could be up to 100°C for the ic
Yeah, the card is stable in normal use despite the alarmingly high temperatures. I'd prefer one that ran cooler if possible though, due to the cramped case.