Hyper-V Licensing

[jbraband]

I am familiar with virtualization in general terms; my company uses ESXi hosts to run many VMs and I've used MS Virtual PC and Virtualbox at home to test new OSes and run a local LAMP stack.

When it comes to Microsoft licensing, I know that it's never easy to understand.

For my upcoming WHS2011 build I'd like to jump on the "virtualization in production" bandwagon. Being a home build, 100% non-commercial, my budget is tight. I understand that the guest OSes will need to be licensed, probably going to be 1 WHS2011 VM and 1 Win7 Pro 64-bit.

On an FAQ page for Window Server 2008 R2 (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-faq.aspx), i found the following language:

When using Windows Server 2008 R2 and Hyper-V to run virtual machines with older versions of Windows Server, Windows Server 2008 CALs will not be required in certain scenarios.

• When the Host OS is only running services related to virtualization, such as Hyper-V and Failover Clustering, then Windows Server 2008 CALs are not required.
• If the Guest OS is Windows Server 2008, or if the Windows Server 2008 host, installs other services, then Windows Server 2008 CALs would still be required.

This seems to be another gray area in the licensing. WHS2011 is, at its core Windows Server 2008 R2 and installing as a guest requires that the hyper-v host also be licensed (via the second bullet point).

I'm hoping that for home use with a WHS2011 and Win7 Pro guest that the hyper-v host is free to use.

can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,

Jeremy

 

[nitrobass24]

I doubt it will unfold that way because WHS 2011 will not inlcude the Hyper-v Modules and is not intended to business (ie virtualization).
You can use Hyper-v Server....its free; but you will prob have to pay for 2008 w/ Hyper-v if thats what you are looking for.

Could look into Technet

 

[jbraband]

ah, so i was just looking at the completely wrong product. a little deeper digging on microsoft.com got me to

http://www.microsoft.com/hyper-v-server/en/us/default.aspx

that is where the free goodies are at. thanks for pointing me in the right direction nitro. i'm really happy that it'll be free!

 

[nitrobass24]

Yea think of it like

ESXi = Hyper-v Server 2008 R2
vSphere = Server 2008 Datacenter R2 w/ Hyper-v

 

[StartledPancake]

ah, so i was just looking at the completely wrong product. a little deeper digging on microsoft.com got me to

http://www.microsoft.com/hyper-v-server/en/us/default.aspx

that is where the free goodies are at. thanks for pointing me in the right direction nitro. i'm really happy that it'll be free!

Yeah the "baremetal" (although its pretty heavy compared to ESXi) hyper-v host is free. Its command line only (with a basic gui for config) although it can be managed remotely, configuring it isnt for the faint of heart.

The various windows server licences then provide you with the ability to run VM's on top of that hypervisor, standard 1, enterprise 4 and datacenter unlimited off the top of my head. The Virtual Center equivalent, SCVMM, also costs money. A technet subscription gets you access to all this for a one off ~330 dollars though, along with every other MS product ever released. If you want to play with this stuff, I reckon its a bargain.

 

[jbraband]

yeah technet is a great deal, but what happens when i'm done "playing with it" and want to use in in my home for day to day use? technically that's a production environment and therefore not allowed under the technet license, or the msdn license either for that matter.

my other understanding about the technet license is that once the subscription is terminated (or not renewed) then all installs need to be wiped.

I'm sure many will think that I am overly cautious regarding the use limitations of the various "cheap" routes to acquire microsoft's chest of booty, but i like to play things to the book. to each his/her own i suppose. if my interpretations of the technet/msdn licensing is misguided, i'm eager to be told otherwise so i can fire off my payment to technet.

-j

 

[StartledPancake]

Its an odd one, at least for MSDN Microsoft themselves describe the licences as "perpetual". I have a rolling subscription (actually a few, they give them away free with exam courses or for attending things like TechED) but I dont believe your licences expire once you no longer subscribe. Like all MS licensing though, its completely bloody ineffable.

Technet:

Expired Subscriber Access

Q: After my Subscription expires can I still download products and claim product keys?

A: Only Subscribers with active subscriptions can download products and claim product keys, so you will not be able to download products after your Subscription has expired.

You will be able to view Product Keys you had claimed while your Subscription was active, but you will not be able to claim new keys. In order to access your prior claimed keys, you will have to Sign in to Live ID using the account and Subscription information that you had used to access your subscription benefits and claim those keys.

MSDN:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/downloads/cc150618.aspx

In most cases, MSDN subscriptions come with “perpetual” use rights—the ability to continue using the software after the subscription has expired, even though the ability to download software and product keys ends when the subscription expires. An expired subscriber can only use software that was available during the subscription term for the subscription level purchased; software released after subscription expiration cannot be used. MSDN subscriptions offered through retail channels and most Volume Licensing programs (Enterprise Agreement, Select, Select Plus, Open Value, Open, etc.) come with perpetual use rights unless otherwise specified. Certain "subscription" Volume Licensing programs (Enterprise Agreement Subscription, Open Value Subscription, Open Subscription, Campus Agreement, etc.) as well as subscriptions offered through the Microsoft Partner Network do not have perpetual use rights, so it is necessary to renew the subscription or program membership in order to continue using the software. If you sell or transfer a subscription to another party, any perpetual use rights are transferred to the new party so you would need to purchase a new subscription in order to continue using the software.

If you have an Ultimate or Premium level subscription, you can also install and use one copy of certain desktop applications on one device for production use:

Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2010
Microsoft Office Project Professional 2010
Microsoft Office Visio Premium 2010

 

[jbraband]

so it seems that the MSDN license explicitly says that its perpetual after expiration where the technet license says that you can't get new licenses, but you can retrieve your old ones. The implication is that there is a perpetual agreement on the part of microsoft for technet subscriptions, otherwise why would they let you access used licenses after the subscription is over.

so i guess i'd only need to find a hole in the license that exlcudes home-use from the production stipulation. i suppose at home, i was always tinkering with it, therefore testing/developing, but once I stream music off it to the HTPC that breaks it. again, i know that I am a tight-wad when it comes to following a software license. That is why I don't have nice things

I guess I have to assume that the vast majority of everyone that subscribes to technet for home-use is breaking the license somehow by using the software in "production" and not for "evaluation", or the MSDN license not being used for "development". (" " used because of the generalness of those terms, "evaluation" == "i evaluate whether win2008r2 can stream music to my HTPC every night of the week just to make sure that it works each possible calendar day from now to eternity.")

-j

 

[nitrobass24]

It all comes down to interpretation.

For me, yes i use it in my Home environment, but i use Server08 w/ Hyper-v to test out all kinds of MS products (forefront, Great Plains, new OSs) that i would never actually purchase. Just so happens that i store my media collection on the same server. I dont see a problem with that.

I basically decided that Production=Generating Revenue. As long as I am not running a business or using these servers/software to generate any kind of side revenue/income I am in the clear.

They want people to use their software and get familiar with it, so when it comes time to buy the software to use in a business they pick a MS product. What they dont want is Joe Schmo who started his own business to go buy a technet sub and install all his employees workstations and servers with licenses from Technet.

There is a reason the lawyers who wrtote the license made it not very explicit...just sayin.

 

[StartledPancake]

I really, really dont think Microsoft have a problem with this. As long as you arent using it in any way for business, they want you be doing the kind of stuff your talking about with your Technet sub. They are some seriously enthusiastic dudes.

Edit: - Posted just after Nitrobass, but I agree with everything he said. Technet is all about Microsoft evangelism as far as I can tell, maybe thats something you may feel uncomfortable with

 

[nitrobass24]

Microsoft Evangelism - i like that.

 

[jbraband]

"Microsoft Evangelism" i can dig that argument. I make my professional living as a .NET/MSSQL/Silverlight developer. as such, I live by many MS products (except the expensive, not-absolutely essential ones, i.e. win2008r2). I guess I've watched the movie Hackers from the 90s too many times, thinking about when the joey character's house is raided while he's in the shower.

can anyone verify that a technet license (after the subscription is expired) does still validate as "genuine" by microsoft's authorization process? just want to know if i can do a year subscription or if i need to plan on a recurring payment. if they do still validate, i imagine its standard practice to stock up on technet licenses and downloads before the expiration.

 

[nitrobass24]

Yes your keys will still activate and your software will be "Genuine".

I will say though that paying the yearly renewal fee is worth it IMO because each year something new that you want is going to come out, and will cost more to go buy it.
2009 - Windows 7
2010 - Office 2010
2011 - ???

Buying just one license for Office 2010 would be more expensive than a technet sub renewal.

Also there are two editions
Standard and Pro

Standard has just about everything under the sun, except for the Enterprise stuff (Great Plains, Soloman, etc.) Windows Server08r2 datacenter, SQL 08, are all still included. Here is a link to the full list of each. http://download.microsoft.com/downl...E-AA0E-A087CB332A23/TechNet_Product_List.xlsx

The standard edition is $200 & $150 for renewal.
I will be switching my personal Technet Subscription to standard when my renewal comes around.

 

[StartledPancake]

"Microsoft Evangelism" i can dig that argument. I make my professional living as a .NET/MSSQL/Silverlight developer. as such, I live by many MS products (except the expensive, not-absolutely essential ones, i.e. win2008r2). I guess I've watched the movie Hackers from the 90s too many times, thinking about when the joey character's house is raided while he's in the shower.

can anyone verify that a technet license (after the subscription is expired) does still validate as "genuine" by microsoft's authorization process? just want to know if i can do a year subscription or if i need to plan on a recurring payment. if they do still validate, i imagine its standard practice to stock up on technet licenses and downloads before the expiration.

Yes - it identifies the product as genuine. They are fully activated Microsoft licenses. If you want to stock up, claim all your licenses as soon as possible and export them to XML (this service is available form the site). Many people were caught out when they reduced the number of Win7 licenses from 10 to 5 and had to resort to using the Korean version for their mums laptop ...