HP T730: $129.40 (shipped)

Samir

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ok, for my remote setup I just need an addl PCIE card to go in this with 1 port (to give 1 in 1 out) that will 1. NOT OVERHEAT in a building that will get over 100F in the summer and 2. will be ultra reliable/authentic (worried about a knock off "Intel" card on ebay that dies after few months because it will be 1000 miles away).

I want to replace an ASUS router that's been at a remote site and running strong for YEARS, that I have had a reliable OpenVPN connection to for YEARS with some new hardware and my main LAN is a pfSense router.

Wise, not wise? I have to reset my local pfSense like every 90 days, but might be due to packages (like Unbound etc).
In my experience thin clients generally are ultra-reliable, even with some extended temps like 80-90F. However, because their cooling is limited, these temps do reduce their life unless you put a small fan or something to help enhance the cooling capability.
 
May 1, 2020
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Just jumped on board with you guys. I'm going to turn this into a pfsense box too.

Only issue now is finding a NIC, that i350 thread got me scared about counterfeits though so I'm having trouble finding something. I should only need a dual port NIC for WAN+LAN. Any good ebay links?

EDIT:
I did some looking around using the i350 Genuine vs Fake thread for manufacturer numbers and I found these.

Dual Port IBM
or
Quad Port Cisco

You guys think they have a good shot at being genuine? I'll probably hop on the dual port one to save myself $30.
 
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crw030

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Don't know if you can integrate fiber into your setup up
It's a slow Fiber-to-the-home alternative over Comcast at a second home where I have some video cameras for monitoring.

10G or 1G or 2.5? There are USB3 2.5G adapters now that work well.
Nothing like those, I think 10Mb/3Mb at this time, with possible upgrades to 50Mb/10Mb hehe. My home connection is 1GbE FTTH but its running fine with Intel card and even onboard Realtek NIC.

In my experience thin clients generally are ultra-reliable, even with some extended temps like 80-90F.
Ok, so probably a candidate. It only really gets hot a couple weeks a year. The reliability is the primary need because to "fix" any problem is 1000 miles away and hard to fix with no one onsite.
 
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WANg

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Don't feel bad. I am running dual port 10GbT on 8 hosts. I should seriously setup a grow room to take advantage of all this wasted power and heat.
*ugh*. It's more my disdain for people trying to get ruddy old copper in their existing infrastructure to do what it's not meant to, instead of doing the right thing and run singlemode fiber and Wifi 6 with future-proofing in mind. Apple really should've dropped an SFP+ port on their MacMinis and Pros rather than 10GbE copper ports. nBaseT is pretty much the last hurrah for copper coax in home networking, all it does is delay the inevitable, and it's not even like 10GbE fiber cards are that expensive (you can get a Solareflare SNF5122F for about 20 USD via eBay and drop them on beige box PCs).
 
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Samir

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*ugh*. It's more my disdain for people trying to get ruddy old copper in their existing infrastructure to do what it's not meant to, instead of doing the right thing and run singlemode fiber and Wifi 6 with future-proofing in mind. Apple really should've dropped an SFP+ port on their MacMinis and Pros rather than 10GbE copper ports. nBaseT is pretty much the last hurrah for copper coax in home networking, all it does is delay the inevitable, and it's not even like 10GbE fiber cards are that expensive (you can get a Solareflare SNF5122F for about 20 USD via eBay and drop them on beige box PCs).
After finally working with sfp modules and fibre as well as dacs, I don't see why people are trying to run 10G over copper unless it's across cable not in the same room, which does serve the purpose. nBaseT is going to be useful for this same purpose, but beyond 10G I don't see copper working like this unless there's a dual rj45 qsfp equivalent that comes out. o_O
 
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After finally working with sfp modules and fibre as well as dacs, I don't see why people are trying to run 10G over copper unless it's across cable not in the same room, which does serve the purpose. nBaseT is going to be useful for this same purpose, but beyond 10G I don't see copper working like this unless there's a dual rj45 qsfp equivalent that comes out. o_O
I feel like it'd be cool if they made mini-switches that was like a normal wall-plate that had a fiber input and copper ports to plug into. That way you could wire up a building with fiber and increase it's speed over time without having to re-run anything and you wouldn't need to have some sort of large switch in every room you wanted a connection.
 

Samir

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I feel like it'd be cool if they made mini-switches that was like a normal wall-plate that had a fiber input and copper ports to plug into. That way you could wire up a building with fiber and increase it's speed over time without having to re-run anything and you wouldn't need to have some sort of large switch in every room you wanted a connection.
That's actually quite easy to do with media converters, but the problem is the same that happened back in the transition from 10Mbit to 100Mbit--you have to re-wire the place. And that was a big problem back in the days of 10Mbit. Most of the times the buildings were renovated before they were re-wired or companies built a new building and had the proper spec wire in it from the get-go. That and 100Mbit nics became the same cost as 10Mbit and switches did the same, so eventually the only additional cost was the wiring. But unfortunately, with 10Gbit still being relatively expensive because of needing a sfp and switches still relatively expensive compared to 1Gbit, it's still an 'upgrade all around' type of deal to move to 10Gbit. This is where I thought the nBaseT spec would help fill the gap, but the nics and switches aren't even here yet even though the wire is already in the walls.
 
May 1, 2020
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That's actually quite easy to do with media converters, but the problem is the same that happened back in the transition from 10Mbit to 100Mbit--you have to re-wire the place. And that was a big problem back in the days of 10Mbit. Most of the times the buildings were renovated before they were re-wired or companies built a new building and had the proper spec wire in it from the get-go. That and 100Mbit nics became the same cost as 10Mbit and switches did the same, so eventually the only additional cost was the wiring. But unfortunately, with 10Gbit still being relatively expensive because of needing a sfp and switches still relatively expensive compared to 1Gbit, it's still an 'upgrade all around' type of deal to move to 10Gbit. This is where I thought the nBaseT spec would help fill the gap, but the nics and switches aren't even here yet even though the wire is already in the walls.
If you used a fiber backbone like I was suggesting, I wouldn't think you'd need to rewire the place. You'd just swap out the actual hardware running over the line when it came time to upgrade.
 

Samir

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If you used a fiber backbone like I was suggesting, I wouldn't think you'd need to rewire the place. You'd just swap out the actual hardware running over the line when it came time to upgrade.
That's what I used to think until I learned about all the different types of fibre. I doubt that fibre run from the 100Mbit days would do 10Gbit. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong!)
 
May 1, 2020
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That's what I used to think until I learned about all the different types of fibre. I doubt that fibre run from the 100Mbit days would do 10Gbit. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong!)
FDDI which was used in the late 80's and early 90's is listed on Wikipedia as compable of 10Gbit at 26m with 10GBASE-SR and 220m with 10GBASE-LRM.
 

Samir

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FDDI which was used in the late 80's and early 90's is listed on Wikipedia as compable of 10Gbit at 26m with 10GBASE-SR and 220m with 10GBASE-LRM.
Link? All I found is that FDDI was a standard like Ethernet, not a cabling standard.
 
May 1, 2020
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Link? All I found is that FDDI was a standard like Ethernet, not a cabling standard.
It's mentioned on the Mutli-Mode Fiber page and 10Gbit page as also referring to a grade of cable. My guess is that FDDI networks all relied on a similar cable type back in the day before the OM standard was created and is partially synonymous with the network standard.

Cisco has an article covering the 10GBASE-LRM standard and how it allows for 10Gbit over long distances in old FDDI networks.
 
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Samir

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Very interesting. The old FDDI cabling is like OM1 and still represents a chunk of the installed base, which is nuts considering how old it is. If I would have known that and had pre-termainted fibre available back in the day, I would have wired my parents house with some. But if the contractors messed it up like I saw on other builds, it wouldn't have worked anyways.
 

newabc

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The single-mode OS2 patch cables are not much higher than the multi-mode OM3 ones in "fulfilled by amazon". Counting the Mikrotik switches and 10Gtek modules, I am interested in using fiber as 10Gbps for home now.
 

Samir

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The single-mode OS2 patch cables are not much higher than the multi-mode OM3 ones in "fulfilled by amazon". Counting the Mikrotik switches and 10Gtek modules, I am interested in using fiber as 10Gbps for home now.
I wouldn't trust amazon's jungle. ;) 10Gbit at home is quite easy with sfps and fibre until you try to get multi-room with it.
 

newabc

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I wouldn't trust amazon's jungle. ;) 10Gbit at home is quite easy with sfps and fibre until you try to get multi-room with it.
Yes, multiple rooms are an issue.

By the way, the patch fiber cables sold and shipped by jd.com(biggest electronic product dealer in China. It means best warranty and shipping services and high prices when comparing to taobao.com/aliexpress.com.) are quite low if you are in China and it has "7 days no reason to return". (50meters, Armored vs non-armored; RMB to USD is 7:1)
 

Samir

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Yes, multiple rooms are an issue.

By the way, the patch fiber cables sold and shipped by jd.com(biggest electronic product dealer in China. It means best warranty and shipping services and high prices when comparing to taobao.com/aliexpress.com.) are quite low if you are in China and it has "7 days no reason to return". (50meters, Armored vs non-armored; RMB to USD is 7:1)
I would buy that if I lived there and the seller couldn't shy away from providing support. Otherwise, no thanks. I'm done with giving hard earned money to people operating on bad faith.
 

WANg

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I would buy that if I lived there and the seller couldn't shy away from providing support. Otherwise, no thanks. I'm done with giving hard earned money to people operating on bad faith.
Well, 10Gtek is based in Shenzhen (China), and FS is Southern Chinese with US offices, and as far as I can tell from past dealings, both are reasonably reputable (although we did bust 10Gtek astroturfing here not too long ago leading me to tell the story of how their definition of amazon prime 2-day is very different from standard expectations. I kinda wish @Patrick didn’t blow that thread away).

At least when FS promise 2 day shipping on products, they actually deliver in 2 days. But of course, the amount my company paid for practically immediate availability would have been exorbitant by Chinese standards, but hey, most of the channel partners I had were back ordered for weeks. In terms of Chinese fiber and optics my beef with them isn’t initial quality as much as post-sale support or weird little things that sets off alarm bells at the back of my head.

Example: Why ship an order for 10 SFPs in 2 small boxes to save a little on postage when they can just ship it in a bigger box when I don’t have to tear a data center receiving area apart looking for “box 2 of 2”? It shows a bit of customer disrespect.
 
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Samir

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Well, 10Gtek is based in Shenzhen (China), and FS is Southern Chinese with US offices, and as far as I can tell from past dealings, both are reasonably reputable (although we did bust 10Gtek astroturfing here not too long ago leading me to tell the story of how their definition of amazon prime 2-day is very different from standard expectations. I kinda wish @Patrick didn’t blow that thread away).

At least when FS promise 2 day shipping on products, they actually deliver in 2 days. But of course, the amount my company paid for practically immediate availability would have been exorbitant by Chinese standards, but hey, most of the channel partners I had were back ordered for weeks. In terms of Chinese fiber and optics my beef with them isn’t initial quality as much as post-sale support or weird little things that sets off alarm bells at the back of my head.

Example: Why ship an order for 10 SFPs in 2 small boxes to save a little on postage when they can just ship it in a bigger box when I don’t have to tear a data center receiving area apart looking for “box 2 of 2”? It shows a bit of customer disrespect.
Almost everything is made overseas with US offices so that's nothing new. It's how those companies conduct themselves and how they deal in terms of ethics is where I vote with my wallet. I can always buy a nice used piece of whatever I need rather than deal with people for new parts that have less than 100% integrity.

As far as the 2-box thing--that just sounds like they keep them in packs of 5 and it was simpler to slap a label on two boxes and get them out the door. This is common in shipping and logistics, especially when it costs less to ship that way. Combining orders is labor and additional packing material after all. And every penny counts these days.
 

WANg

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Almost everything is made overseas with US offices so that's nothing new. It's how those companies conduct themselves and how they deal in terms of ethics is where I vote with my wallet. I can always buy a nice used piece of whatever I need rather than deal with people for new parts that have less than 100% integrity.

As far as the 2-box thing--that just sounds like they keep them in packs of 5 and it was simpler to slap a label on two boxes and get them out the door. This is common in shipping and logistics, especially when it costs less to ship that way. Combining orders is labor and additional packing material after all. And every penny counts these days.
Eh, but you are not getting the point of why this is a problem. Think about it from the perspective of someone who runs an IT team who only put boots on the ground when they absolutely have to -

Let’s assume that you order 6 SFPs from a reputable firm with their own warehousing/fulfillment, and you check off the “ship them in a single allocation” box. Those all go into a single box, they give you a single tracking number, and you open up an ingress ticket so the loading dock at the data center knows that you are coming, and depending on whether your firm is willing to pay the remote hands fee to deliver it to your cage...your inbound tech can pick it up from the dock. As long as the box arrives before the tech - easy-peasy.

Now here is where things start to fall down dealing with vendors - some learned quickly, others, not so much, and not all of them are overseas. But at the end, how they handle this is how they build reputations.

a) When they sell via Amazon and promises 2 days/prime shipping, make sure it is what you think it is -

Amazon 2-day shipping during times of normalcy is typically understood by the consumer to be 2 days from purchasing to delivery at your data center, with a tracking number at all times. What I got in the past is 2-days from the Amazon warehouse to your cage, but with a 2 week slow-boat journey from overseas to the nearest Amazon warehouse (which is not trackable since it's not in Amazon possession yet). Well, if your promised 2 day delivery turned into 2 weeks + 2 days, that's not going to do. And yet there are vendors out there who pulled that one on me. I was NOT amused.

b) Splitting up orders without telling you - or indeed not giving you a choice to opt out -

So this is pertinent to the discussion. Suppose you need all 6 SFPs, and someone at the vendor decided that shipping 2 smaller boxes (or just to be funny, 2 padded envelopes) with 3 SFPs each saves the vendor a few dollars. And so, you are given 2 tracking numbers with 2 different packages. This is when I start to cold sweat.
Now, estimate the chances of these scenarios happening:

- One package makes it to the loading dock at 3p Friday right when the scheduled UPS/Fedex pickup happens, and one makes it there at 3:05p and misses the shipping for that day.
- Both packages makes it to the shipping together, but one makes it to the plane, while the other makes it onto the next plane, which can be 2 hours from now, or within 24 hours.
- Both packages makes it to the plane, past the regional processing facility, and gets loaded to the delivery truck. Except one of them goes in before a large pallet, while the other right after, and the delivery guy didn't check whether both packages are off the truck. Oh well, you can always drop it off later, or if not, tomorrow.
- Both packages makes it off the truck onto the loading ramp at the DC, but one is at the top of the pile, the other is at the bottom, and the loading dock guy is busy dealing with requests so only one of the 2 are scanned into the system so far.
- Both packages makes it off the loading dock at the vendor, gets picked up at the same time, gets loaded onto the same plane, off the same trick, dropped off at the same time, scanned in by the receiving dock at the same time, and this all happens within 12 hours of the tech scheduled to pick it up for a long day of onsite work.

All of this happened under my watch, but the fact that I listed all these scenarios indicate an imperfect world where "shit happens", and when it happens, it's often not to the benefit of your sanity.

And here is your tech, fresh off the plane, a bit jetlagged but ready to get to work.

Now you see how saving a few dollars on packaging potentially loses you a long term customer? And in most of those vendors, allocating in a group and shipping as a single lot isn't even an option. They decide what you think is important, and you pay the consequences. The ability to allocate in a single grouping and ship at the same time is the difference between someone making the downtime window, doing the work as scheduled and flying home happy (preferably with a stopover at my office for drinks), or the potential of having them scream bloody murder for not getting the shipping right, paying for a hotel stay extension and missing quality time with the family overseas. This also determines whether the vendor in question is on my good list, or my naughty list.

The smart-alecky retort is "why didn't you plan ahead?" and my equally smart-alecky answer will be "according to ITILv3, all emergencies must be scheduled at least 3 weeks in advance to allow for logistics shortfalls. This is an ITILv3 violation and will be dealt with in a flurry of change control committee memos". Yeah...no. The parts that you need to order are often so custom or rare that its not like your local Best Buy will be able to bail you out. In my experience there is no lonelier place on earth than Chicago on a Saturday afternoon when CDW (the only vendor who can potentially provides you with a working Juniper SFP+ module) closes shop within 30 minutes for the weekend, you are stuck in traffic on Interstate 90 heading north to Vernon Hills (CDW's pickup site), and the last line on that damned package tracker reads: "South Bend, Indiana, Sat 1:46p - this package is on its way to your destination: estimated delivery time: Monday morning". Your only option? Call CDW and see if they have someone who can keep the lights on for you for being a little late, or ailing that, call up the SigOth to let her know the bad news, add an extra 2 days to your checkout date (if available) and to reschedule your flight home.

I've dealt also with past experiences where the hapless warehouse guy from Shenzhen gave us the wrong tracking # so our packages seemingly went to West Podunk, Nowhere-istan, triggering a wave of panic amongst my team and requiring me to rustle up the vendor's customer service to inquire (in my conversational Mandarin) what the heck happened. Customer service later told me that the guy responsible for this debacle was "seriously admonished" (I can only assume that he was given the 9mm apology barrage with a blindfold and a last cigarette?). Well, he might had been seriously admonished and his employee of the month paper crown ripped off his head. I have a CIO who almost had an aneurysm.
 
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