HP Smart Array P410 and SATA2

[Blubster]

Hi everyone!
I bought a HP Proliant DL180 g6 a few months ago (after seeing an article here about some great deals! ^^).
It came without drives (8 empty slots) and with a P410 controller, with 256mb of battery backed cache.
It is running nicely (and loudly, it is a DL180 after all), except for one issue I have and which puzzles me, the controller refuses to synchronize hard drives and SSDs with anything but SATA1 speed (1.5gbps).
I am aware this controller does not support SATA3, but it should support SATA2 with no issues, and 6gbps SAS drives (i have no yet tried SAS drives, i can try on a couple of 146gb i have somewhere...).
I tried a Samsung 840 PRO 256gb, no luck, 1.5gbps link.
Same thing with Seagate Constellation ES SATA2 drives, always 1.5gbps link.
I have ruled out an issue with the controller drivers, as this is exactly the same with the offline Array Configuration Utility.
Technically, it is using a 8 drives backplane, connected to the p410 with 2 SAS cables. This looks normal to me...
I know for a fact that the 12 drives backplane should handle 3gbps SATA2 drives (there is a firmware upgrade specifically stating this support for this backplane, like here).
The questions are :
- is the 8 drives backplane limiting the speed?
- if yes, should i replace it with a 12 drives backplane? (it should physically fit, with no access to the 2 upper right slots...)
I also have another P410 controller that is sitting in a box. Should i swap the controllers?

The server is not yet in production, so i can try anything i want as long as i want... ^^

 

[Blubster]

Problem solved!!!
I opened the server today just to check out the inside again, i noticed a very small cable was not connected to the backplane, to the i²c connector.
Cable connected, no longer any issue! The samsung SSD syncs at 3gbps... and so are the other hard drives... -_-'

 

[lpallard]

How do you like the DL180 so far??

when you say loud, would you work beside it? is it kinda like a hairblower running at full speed??

Im tempted to get a DL180 G6 as well from ebay but It will be in my SoHo office and I will be sitting next to it..

 

[Blubster]

uuuh no i would'nt work next to it, it is really noisy (yes like a hairblower)...
I have it running now in the room next to my home office room (actually it is in my garage, my office is next to my garage...) and i can clearly hear it through the wall.
I have no idea if there is any way to reduce this noice, by tweaking the fans or i don't know, but i wouldn't recommend working next to it. I also have a IBM X3650 M2 (that is not working yet unfortunately) and its noise is nowhere near the noise of the DL180.

Though I like the DL180 very much, i like how it is powerfull yet energy efficient (i replaced the two l5520 that came with it with two l5630, so 2x40w!).
And it was just plain cheap when I bought it (about 400€ shipped in France). So i don't mind the noise...

If you want i can record a short movie just to hear how loud it is...

 

[lpallard]

Yes if you can record a short movie I'd be curious to hear that!!

I am tempted between this DL180G6 and th Supermicros x7DBN/DBE (12 or 16 trays) servers.... I am going to use a IBM M1015 HBA so I want 100% compatibility.

I wonder if the supermicros or IBM ones would be quieter?

 

[Diavuno]

the HP's use a funny BIOS... fan speeds are based on CPU.... but also on PCI cards.

when I pull all the pci cards its actually VERY quiet.

it's a moderate 2u with just the P410 or P420 (i forget what mine has)

but the fans really spool up when i put in anything not from that generation HP...

 

[Blubster]

That's weird, it is quite noisy but i don't have any pcie card except the P410...

On boot, fans speed up very high (you have to scream to speak to someone next to you), then slow down a bit when display powers on, but they stay quite noisy.

I'll record a short clip of my DL180 booting, just so you get the idea...

 

[Blubster]

Here is the video I recorded.

The noise you can hear at the beginning is my cisco switch at the top of the rack.

And yes POST is that long... ^^

 

[lpallard]

OH LEE FA ** SH**!!!!

hahah ok yeah I get your point now! Must be in its own location alone not next to you... Its like a turbojet!

That will be a problem for me. No garage and no place to put that baby other than my SoHo..

Unless I can mod the fans somehow to spin lower. During winter I do not heat the office AT ALL. The baseboard heater is off, the office is heated by my existing server. Perhaps lowering the fans to a reasonable level combined with the low ambient temperature would help?

During summer, I keep the office at around 22 with a window shaker A/C.

 

[Blubster]

I have no idea if my fans are running too high or not, i get these values from the BMC :
FanFAN1_INLETNormal operating range6310.7 RPM
FanFAN2_INLETNormal operating range6310.7 RPM
FanFAN3_INLETNormal operating range7494 RPM
FanFAN4_INLETNormal operating range3425.8 RPM

@starshooter10 could you check what are your fans speeds if possible?
Given this link i am starting to think they should run much lower.
I am running all the latest firmwares (BMC, BIOS, P410...). There is only one PCIe card which is the P410...

I guess if all fans run at 2k/3k it should be a lot quieter!

 

[Patriot]

I have no idea if my fans are running too high or not, i get these values from the BMC :
FanFAN1_INLETNormal operating range6310.7 RPM
FanFAN2_INLETNormal operating range6310.7 RPM
FanFAN3_INLETNormal operating range7494 RPM
FanFAN4_INLETNormal operating range3425.8 RPM

@starshooter10 could you check what are your fans speeds if possible?
Given this link i am starting to think they should run much lower.
I am running all the latest firmwares (BMC, BIOS, P410...). There is only one PCIe card which is the P410...

I guess if all fans run at 2k/3k it should be a lot quieter!

My G7 DL380s are quite a bit louder than my Gen8 boxes.
Of note... if ILO is screwed up for any reason your fans may run at full bore because the system is unable to monitor temps so it errs on safety.
That is why they all go full bore at reboot.

 

[lpallard]

A question in line with the title of this thread:

with the DL180G6, with NO P410 Raid controller, do I get 4 PCIE slots? Most ebay listings are specifying

"I/O SLOTS:
NONE(CALL TO REPLACE REAR HDD BACKPLANE with BACKPLANE WITH PCI SLOTS"

Im confused between backplane, expander, etc... If someone can shed some light on that I'd appreciate!

 

[Blubster]

The rear hdd slots prevent the use of all PCIe slot except one low profile slot i think. If you want to have access to all risers and PCIe slot, you have to choose a configuration without the rear cage (ie max 12 bays or 8, not 14) and with the right riser combo.
This one for instance has 14 bays, so only 1 low profile slot on this machine (used by the P410!).
For more information about this rear cage, you should read this, as it has i think all the information you want! ^^

 

[Blubster]

My G7 DL380s are quite a bit louder than my Gen8 boxes.
Of note... if ILO is screwed up for any reason your fans may run at full bore because the system is unable to monitor temps so it errs on safety.
That is why they all go full bore at reboot.

I noticed only one thing in LO100, i am missing the temperature of a riser card :


TemperatureFH/FL riser1Normal operating range26.5 deg. C

TemperatureHH/LP riserNormal operating range26.5 deg. C

TemperatureFH/FL riser2Unavailable

Could this be the reason i am having my fans running à 7k?
I have seen other people having temperatures on all three of these entries, like here :
Temperature FH/FL riser1 Normal operating range 34 deg. C
Temperature HH/LP riser Normal operating range 34.5 deg. C
Temperature FH/FL riser2 Normal operating range 34 deg. C

I don't remember if i have all the risers installed or not...

 

[Blubster]

Well i checked, i have two risers installed, one low profile PCIe X16, and another one on the other side high profile single PCIe X16 (where there are 3 slots).
There are a few options for this high profile riser :
FH/FL PCI-E riser card
PCI-E x16+2PCI-X 507306-001
3PCI-EX8 534235-001
2PCI-EX8 516803-001
PCI-E x16 534238-001 (that's the one i have)

So you should ask the guy on ebay to have what you want...
But beware, the 3 PCIe X8 riser can't handle X16 cards, from my little research the end of each slot is not open to accomodate X16 cards (sorry i can't find a better way to explain this...).

I still have no idea why i don't have a temperature for FH/FL riser2, it may be for another riser than the one i have there...

 

[lpallard]

Im starting to wonder, reading the spiceworks link you suggested, if specifying to the seller that I do not want a rear drive cage would allow me to access more than a single PCIE slot..

With the P410, I could use two SFF HDD and use velcro to stick them somewhere inside the chassis, use the P410 to raid-1 them, stick the M1015 I have to connect to the expander and enjoy all 12 front bays for my ZFS pool..

That config would also give me a few extra PCIE slots for an infiniband adapter or an extra NIC...

Other option would be the default config (rear drive cage WITH the P410), ditch the P410 and replace by my M1015 (can it be done?) and use the expander to connect all 14 drives to it.

 

[Blubster]

I think it can be done, the M1015 flashed with IT firmware is said to be compatible with HP expanders... Don't quote me on that, i have not tried. Though if you follow this road i think you should keep your p410 around if you need to flash the firmware of the expander in the backplane.

On another note, if you thought the DL180 is like a hairblower, i also have a DL160g6, and this thing is a Boing 747 compared to the DL180. Really!

Personnaly i am not sure if i should get the 12 bays backplane or not. It would allow me to use the to upper left slots as hotswap bays (and not the two upper right slots that are unavailable)), but i think it would have some strong impact on bandwidth, as it has only one SAS port, wouldn't it?

 

[lpallard]

Im VERY interested in your issues (or rather questions) since the DL180G6 i the first contender for my next ZFS storage server built but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the hardware configuration options of that machine.... I need pictures and cant find anywhere.

I'd order a used one on ebay, but Im scared to regret it because what I want to do requires a different server platform or severe modifications/bottlenecks which in the end would make the DL180G6 not the right paltfom for me..

Blubster I'd be happy to help you but I am a lot less knowledgeable than you, having never seen the D180G6 in real...

If I'd wanted to use 14 bays (12 of front, and the two little ones at the back) and not use the P410 (either use the M1015 or what else) could I do it? Backplane, expander, bays, Raid controller, blablabla... does anyone have a diagram showing the default config so I can understand!?

Is there actual SATA ports on the motherboard?

 

[mrkrad]

Also I pickup the P4300 G2 storageworks motherboard for these guys - they were $25 ebay and have a far superior bios setup.

 

[Diavuno]

Few things:

z 14 the unit only has been single low profile slot and that is for the 410 card. Supposedly some of the 12 units have the riser still installed.

Why does come in a few favors, 1 16X, 2 8X, 3 8X, or a single 8x with two pci-x.

The record temperature that you are not reading is the PCI-X risers, as it must use a transposer chip.

I don't recall the exact number on my fan speed, but that sounds about right. It's a loud unit. That's the 60's, they should have used 80mm....

Try pulling out the riser cage completely, start of the unit and listen to how the fans really settle down!

the long pause during post until the fans settle down and the screen turns on, a lot of servers used to do that all Supermicro still does. Its the server engine ic.

If you do not count the 410 card and you get to the appropriate riser you can have a single 16x, and 3 8x. The 8x are not open ended and one is only a 4x electrical.

On the basic 8 bay unit it has simple backplanes that take in a mini-sas cable (sff-8087) you get eight ports via two cables on that 410 card. The backplane then distributes the signal to each drive.
With the expander it will take all eight lanes total up the bandwidth for communication between the 410 and the expander. The expanders can then do the 12 drives in the front. The 14 bay unit is similar to the 12bay, but instead of having 2 riser cards you only get one... The other space is an occupied with two additional drives.
And the one riser card that you do get left with? That is strictly a low profile slot that by default has the 410 card.

Any good SAS controller should be compatible with the expander... But HP does do funny things!

If you want pictures send me a message and I'll forward them to you.

The main board has 6 sata ports.