HP SAS enclosure advise

[DrStein99]

I am looking to buy a cheap HP Storageworks enclosure for 3.5" SAS (or combination of SAS and SATA) from eBay. This would be to expand my existing RAID array on my HP DL380 with 2.5" drives. I would use a SAS cable from the DL380 to hookup into the external RAID enclosure. I found a few $100 (or lower) I want to save money.

Can anyone provide insight to help me pick out a box ? I also need to pick out an external SAS card to install in the DL380 to link the external SAS box. It looks like I can use either SAS on older model boxes and newer ones have both SAS and fibre channel is that right ?

I am confused with the different models. MSA50, MSA60, MSA70. Then are D2600, D3700, M6412-A AG638B, 201SA AJ753A, etc... I do not know what year/era these models are from, overwhelmed with reading research so far.

 

[Dreece]

The D2600 is a solid 3.5" drive enclosure, very reliable, not particularly noisy, though it is not very forgiving with power requirements, the PSUs in them are very sensitive to fluctuations thus you need a top-grade UPS, a consumer grade UPS typically doesn't provide a fast enough transfer when power cuts/browns out causing the D2600s to error-out, and drive pools requiring manually bringing back online.

The D2600 is HPE part number AJ940A. They can also be daisy-chained, so if you need more drives, you just wire in another enclosure. The only caveat with these is that they do hit around 340watts. It would be more efficient to go with a Supermicro enclosure with the drive bays and board+cpu+ram already in the package, they can be had very cheap, around the 200 bucks mark and then just run a 10G private link from the supermicro to your existing server for storage and work from there or if you already have a 10G switch, plumb it in for share access across the network without a gateway as such.

Most external raid cards will work with the HPE enclosure, but try and get one with at least 1GB cache on it, for example the LSI MegaRAID SAS 9286CV-8e is a great candidate to use with these 6G enclosures (I'm assuming you're going hardware raid?). I'd keep away from HPE raid controllers as they can be a nightmare with non-hpe drives, but the HBAs (non-raid) should be fine.

Happy shopping!

 

[Jason Antes]

What gen is the DL380? It'll say on the front (or if you look at the pull out card it has a number on it I could look up). This will make a difference in what is known to work in the server for HBA's. I have a couple of HBA's I could sell you depending on the generation of the server. You'll also want to decide if you are going to run 1 or 2 SAS cables to the enclosure (which I could sell to you too as I have extras). 2 gives you path redundancy to the enclosure so you'd need a 2 external port card. The other option is to get an expander since the DL380 should have an internal SAS card. Your choice in enclosures is similarly broad. You can get ones with single or dual connection options (2 for redundant paths or chaining enclosures together). They also have ones that will do vraid functions at the array so all you'd need was an "IT" mode controller for the server. If an enclosure has FC, it usually also has to have a separate controller (MSA1000 style), the server itself can house either type of card; SAS or HBA.

For example, these SAS cards are listed as being compatible with a DL380 Gen8. There are notes an limitations listed in the quickspecs for some of these.
Smart Array P222 Controller
HP Smart Array P222/512 FBWC 6Gb 1-port Int/1-port Ext SAS Controller 631667-B21
Smart Array P420 Controller
HP Smart Array P420/1GB FBWC 6Gb 2-ports Int SAS Controller 631670-B21
HP Smart Array P420/2GB FBWC 6Gb 2-ports Int SAS Controller 631671-B21
Smart Array P421 Controller
HP Smart Array P421/1GB FBWC 6Gb 2-ports Ext SAS Controller 631673-B21
HP Smart Array P421/2GB FBWC 6Gb 2-ports Ext SAS Controller 631674-B21
Smart Array P430 Controller
HP Smart Array P430/2GB FBWC 12Gb 1-port Int SAS Controller 698529-B21
HP Smart Array P430/4GB FBWC 12Gb 1-port Int SAS Controller 698530-B21
Smart Array P431 Controller HP Smart Array P431/2GB FBWC 12Gb 2-ports Ext SAS Controller 698531-B21
HP Smart Array P431/4GB FBWC 12Gb 2-ports Ext SAS Controller 698532-B21
Smart Array P822 Controller
HP Smart Array P822/2GB FBWC 6Gb 2-ports-Int/4-ports Ext SAS Controller
Smart Array P830 Controller HP Smart Array P830/4GB FBWC 12Gb 2-ports Int SAS Controller 698533-B21

 

[DrStein99]

Dreece:

Thanks for reply. I do not have 10g switches or network cards, all that hardware would be another expense and upgrade. All I was initially looking to do was expand my storage array and save a few bucks using 3.5" drives. I can see this project will be causing me more time, problems and money in every area.

Jason Antes:

Thanks for reply. I have HP DL380 G7 64gb RAM, 1 CPU. I am running FREENAS. There are (2) 8-bay SFF SAS bays installed. I am using only one bay for time being. The HP SAS/raid card removed. I have an LSI card in there now (due to some problems with FREENAS run some type of mode, I forget). No external ports on the card. I do not know if I would have to buy an additional external card or replace that card with internal and external ports.

Looking at things now, between the enclosure, trays, cable, and card - the budget might be too high. I paid $50 for (2) new 4tb 3.5 SAS drives - which I wont be able to touch in 2.5 without using all or most of the 8 empty bays I have.

 

[Jason Antes]

For using non-hp/hpe drives, stick with Dreece's recommendations. With your setup I'd think single cable, single port card would be fine. Getting a 12-bay MSA and only 2 drives being populated you have tons of room for expansion. You'd only need to get a single port on the MSA then too. the 2600/2800's are good.

MSA50 - SFF drives
MSA60 - 12x LFF
MSA70 - SFF drives
d2600 - 12x LFF
d3700 - SFF drives (d3600 is LFF), these are 12Gb SAS and use different connectors than 3 and 6Gb

The 60 and d2600 would work fine for you. There is also the P2000 with SAS connections (this one you can get the controller with built in vraid functionality requiring only the IT mode controller or just plain SAS module); this is the one I have and use with just the SAS connections and not the full on controller. Currently populated with 12x 2TB drives. I have used an LSI controller with it with success too. This one also has 2 ports per SAS module so you can have a total of 4 per shelf for stacking purposes. The module I have in mine is AP844a. Mine is actually badged for an Ibrix x9320 so you may be able to find it cheaper through that part number for the shelf: QP335A (it's just a P2000 shelf rebadged for the Ibrix array).

 

[DrStein99]

Jason Antes:

Thank you for the useful information. The D2600 is a later model at a slightly higher cost. The older model MSA60 can be found under $100.

----------------

I will list my notes from my research so far. A budget boxes unsure of their era - since these part #'s can be a "MSA60" or "D2600" I do not know. They appear to have more indicators and ports than the MSA60:

(AG638B) EVA M6412A (unknown era)
AG638-63011 Sticker on enclosure (M6412A must be the I/O controllers ?)
2 SAS ports, LED number indicator, ethernet "MFG" port (fibre channel optional?)

(AJ832A) M6612 (unknown era)
AJ832A Sticker on enclosure
(M6612 controller ?) 2 SAS ports (p1, p2), LED number indicator, ethernet "MFG" port (is fibre channel?)

(AJ753A) 2012SA (unknown, not a 2600 is 2000?)
AJ753A Sticker on enclosure. MSA 2000SA printed on front of enclosure.
2 SAS ports (0 & 1), 1-CLI ports, DIN status port, various indicators, 10/100 ethernet (management port?),

--- The following two are for reference to compare --

(418408-B21) MSA 60 (Identified)
418408-B21 Sticker of enclosure.
399049-001 SAS I/O card. 2 SAS ports
LED number indicators appears to be on removeable components separate from the controller i/o component

(AJ940A) D2600 - (Identified)
AJ940A Sticker of enclosure
SAS ports, 10/100 (management port?) labeled "MFG". Higher cost

(AW594A) P2000 (identified, appears the latest/greatest)
4 SAS ports (1,2,3,4) + additional SAS port
USB CLI port, USB HOST port, Ethernet SERVICE port

 

[BeTeP]

D2600 is absolutely the oldest generation you should be considering in 2020. You will buy a lot of headache for those $50 you think you are going to "save" by getting older crap you linked.

If you want to save money - get something like Dell Compellent Xyratex HB-1235 12-Bay SAS Enclosure Storage Controller | eBay instead.

 

[Jason Antes]

(AG638B) EVA M6412A - This is *OLD*. I admin'd EVA in the 2007-2013 data range. That shelf is from the x4xx line of EVA's (such as 4400, 6400, 8400). The drives are FC-AL port connected so they should have an adapter for the tray on some of later drives sleds as SAS/SATA replaced FATA and FC drives. If you do not have these special sleds with an adapter then you will not be able to use your existing drives. You'd be looking for the 1TB drives to get the correct sled with adapter. Also, the I/O module on that one you linked is not SAS, it's FC.

(AJ832A) M6612 - This one is SAS-2 for drives and connection. Should be a decent shelf and you can still get new drives for it on amazon. I believe this is a shelf from a P6300 so if it has the top controller for it (instead of just an i/o module) it may carry virtual array functions vs jbod, though it may require licensing since it is again, an EVA platform shelf. Last document I found for it was 2011 -P6300. A bare shelf with jbod modules may be usable as just a shelf.

(AJ753A) 2012SA - This one is actually a pretty nice shelf. It has controllers that can do snaps and clones and you can mix and match SAS/SATA in the same enclosure. This is 3Gb SAS connected to the server. MSA 2012SA (AJ753A) specs.

(418408-B21) MSA 60 - This is a plain jane shelf. 3Gb SAS host connections. Supports SAS and SATA drives. MSA 60

(AJ940A) D2600 - Decent no frills shelf. 6Gb SAS. D2600

(AW594A) P2000 - This is a Gen3 and is newer than most of the rest. This one linked has the SAS controllers in it, but it can also be jbod or FC if different ones are put in. This also means you get the controller based snaps and clones and partition the volumes from the shelf itself. you can create up to a 64TB LUN on this (disk presentation to the server). You can expand drives and other virtual array capabilities. If you want a smart shelf, this is the one. RAID 0, 3, 5, 6, 10, and 50. P2000

 

[Jason Antes]

D2600 is absolutely the oldest generation you should be considering in 2020. You will buy a lot of headache for those $50 you think you are going to "save" by getting older crap you linked.

If you want to save money - get something like Dell Compellent Xyratex HB-1235 12-Bay SAS Enclosure Storage Controller | eBay instead.

The rebranded SBX BrickStor. For the money and ease of use the P2000 would be a better buy. Cheaper (the one linked anyway) and realitively the same functionality. Fairly close in age. I've seen some issues with these communicating if you get 1 of the middle shelves from a SC8000 array. Firmware update to the basic shelf looks like it could fix that issue. Manuals for this outside of being registered on Dell are spotty, though you can find the old BrickStor ones.

 

[Jason Antes]

Also, the D2600 could be old as well. This shelf starts in 2010 and the one linked on ebay is a pre-HP/HPE split so is 2015 or older. The P2000 linked would be the same. I could maybe figure it out by serial number as to approximate ages since that was coded into some product lines.

 

[DrStein99]

SATA and SAS is an important option. I will always need to add a big cheap drive to move data around one place to another.

So between the lesser expensive 2012sa or the Dell Xryatrex I pick. Is there any hidden liscensing crapola on either of those two units ?

 

[Jason Antes]

If you don't want the "extra" features above what comes with a stock shelf for the 2012sa, then no. The guide I linked for it does talk about the different options that can be licensed but don't have to be (such as replication, 512 snapshots vs 64, vCenter integrations, etc). As for the Dell, I don't know but BeTep may know.

 

[BeTeP]

I based my recommendation on the specific requirements - namely not requiring any special expertise and having high enough chances of working out in the end (vs tinkering project you'd be fine with scrapping half way through). And I am still standing by it - if you want to buy something and have it working by the end of the day - get a D2600 for ~$250 shipped. Or if that's too expensive - get a Xyratex HB-1235 for ~$150. Both of those shelves are just chassis with "dumb" SAS expanders and nothing more. Nothing extra is required to get these working.

On the age related note, on paper it may look like P2000 G3 was released around the same time as D2600. But the truth is that it was just a small incremental update for the older MSA2000 G1/G2 platform. And many units you see on ebay are in fact 12-13 years old chassis with upgraded controllers.

Besides, the P2000 you linked is a SFF unit. The lowest P2000 G3 LFF listing is $230 at the moment.

 

[Jason Antes]

No, just no. The d2000 series of shelves were for sale in 2009. The p2000 G3 was out in 2010. The d2000 could be connected to the p2000 G2 and supported. To say the G3 was a minor update is not really true from a hardware standpoint, but yes from a software standpoint it was "minor" as long as you mean it to be for new feature introduction. The G2 already had virtual drives and other things of the sort. The midplane went to 6Gb SAS from 3, controllers were upgraded for new SAS, FC, iSCSI speeds, etc. The big difference between the D2000 series and the P2000 series is that the D series will only ever be a "dumb" shelf.

Now I agree, for what the OP wants and the cost, a dumb shelf works just fine. He had listed a P2000 with controllers so I defined what it was and what it could do. He could also get a "dumb" shelf for the P2000 (P/N AP843B) with single/dual i/o modules and upgrade whenever. Again, probably not what OP is looking for. Between the HB-1235 and the D2600 for cheap, I'd go with the D2600 every time but that is my bias; either should do the job.

Here is a thread to look at from a recent HB-1235 experience. Looks like mixing SATA and SAS isn't really supported and depending on what you have in the back for modules you may be unpleasantly annoyed. HB-1235

 

[DrStein99]

I got one more runner-up. It is

Dell SC200

 

[Jason Antes]

That looks like a decent shelf, supports SAS and SATA so long as your RAID/IT card does. Cheap. Just need to find sleds for it.

 

[DrStein99]

I checked out what I could. It appears to be older than the xyratex system. Which means probably a surprise when I go to run modern large drives sata or sas.

Xrtatex is clearly the best box for a $20 difference. Trays are like $10 each

 

[Jason Antes]

2012SA - $89 no sleds. 2012sa

Compatible sleds - $3.99. HDD sleds

 

[DrStein99]

Is the 2012sa in the same d2000 series, retired in 2008 or 2010 ?

 

[Jason Antes]

That's the G2 version.