Not in Germany. Aging population, VDSL 50 is available in large parts, can't even sell them 250 let alone fiber if you wanted to. Best argument I have found was no more dead routers due to lightning strikes.
How long before we see affordable consumer 25 GbE switches?
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More than 1G direction uplink hardly makes sense unless you are a datacenter.
In most cases it is ok to use 1-10G for office, communication and internet.
25G is often more a use case between storage and backup or storage to some workstations ex for multiuser media editing and services like SMB Direct/RDMA ex with a 4port 25G nic like the Intel 810 serverside. In such a case you can simply add active or passive DAC cables between them and skip the switch.
In most cases it is ok to use 1-10G for office, communication and internet.
25G is often more a use case between storage and backup or storage to some workstations ex for multiuser media editing and services like SMB Direct/RDMA ex with a 4port 25G nic like the Intel 810 serverside. In such a case you can simply add active or passive DAC cables between them and skip the switch.
again, internet speed is not network speed. As well as it seems like you are expanding the people on this forum with an interest in high performance ex enterprise gear to the population at large. We've got large chunks of the population around here sticking with 12Mb internet connections because it does the job and the higher tiers are expensive. More to the point though your question is about high speed switches and yet you still haven't answered my questions about what these people are going to plug into said switches even after getting past the hurdles of price, noise, needing all new network cabling, interface cards and that they won't be able to connect their wireless gear to them. Again, enterprise switches don't come with wireless so there's no consumer trickle down in that area. Can you show me an ad for a consumer NAS with 10Gb NICs in it and the storage hardware inside to match? Or 25Gb? I'm curious about what your perception of 'average consumer' is.
You probably live in a rare part of the world where you imagine corner retail computer stores and consumer facing arms of dell etc are selling so much 10Gb gear to mums and dads in such volume that it makes sense to campaign to their suppliers for the next step up.
I reckon you've got the decimal point in the wrong place. You're trying to get your audience into 2.5Gb at the moment, not 25. That's at least achievable in your concept of upselling what's available on shelves.
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Going from 100mb to 1gb and again to 10gb was easy because it could all be done over existing cat5/6 cabling. Going to 25 would require complete rewiring of houses. That is one reason why I don't see it taking off any time soon for the average consumer. Add to the fact that splicing your own fiber isn't as easy or cheap as running cat 5/6 just extends the time frame.
The answer is simple really, as long as there's a SMB need, realtek will create it (Cheap 8x SFP+ switches existed before 2.5GbE switches)
And it will happen at some point of time where it isn't technogically difficult to make them cheaper
If we kept looking at the present we would still be stuck on 360p video and very slow internet. It's the march of progress.
And it will happen at some point of time where it isn't technogically difficult to make them cheaper
If we kept looking at the present we would still be stuck on 360p video and very slow internet. It's the march of progress.
but joe average can immediately and obviously see the difference between 1960's tv, VHS and dvd (and perhaps bluray on the right equipment)
and they can also clearly see the difference between dialup, low rate and high rate broadband when it comes to streaming video and downloading large files.
what obvious and productive difference do you think joe average can see between 10Gb and 25Gb networks between his phone and his ....what exactly?
This isn't perpetual looking at the present - it's an answer searching for a problem that doesn't exist and probably won't exist for quite some time. It's not like 25Gb (or 10Gb for that matter) is bleeding edge and becoming obsolete because it can't handle business as usual. It's been obsolete for ages (well and truly superceded by 'better' tech up to 800Gb now) and most of the stuff the OP is pointing to is cheap not because of high demand but because it's old stock and used gear that no-one (except members of this forum) wants. The reason it's not commonplace is because it's hard and expensive compared to legacy stuff, and most people seem happy with waiting a bit longer for a file to move as the file sizes get larger when compared to the investment in power/noise/heat/cost etc associated with upgrading EVERYTHING - not just the switch - to get 25Gb even if they had the gear that could actually use that bandwidth, which i'm not convinced they do and no-one has answered that question yet.I see the same thing with people campaigning for faster and faster USB, and yet they're still connecting the same spinning rust external HDD tthat they were ten years ago. The 'network' is just not the bottleneck.
Consumers aren't frustrated that their games are slow to load over their home network to the NAS in the basement - they're just installing NVMe expansion in the same box that runs the games. And they might be complaining that it takes ages to download a game update, but a 25Gb home network i(or 10Gb or even 2.5Gb) isn't going to do a darn thing about that.
Used mining dump trucks are pretty cheap compared to their new prices and have huge bandwidth as well - doesn't mean they are or should be consumer items for moving compost around your garden or that they need to get bigger and cheaper when new because "it's the march of progress". 25Gb is available if you want it. It's complicated (anyone see an unmanaged 4 port 25Gb switch with RJ45 connectors I can hook to my existing cabling?) and expensive and hard to live with but can be found if it satisfies a need for you. Your need doesn't mean that the rest of the consumer population has the same need, but if you think i'm wrong, go fund a startup to make cheaper gear for the home user and make a fool of me.
and they can also clearly see the difference between dialup, low rate and high rate broadband when it comes to streaming video and downloading large files.
what obvious and productive difference do you think joe average can see between 10Gb and 25Gb networks between his phone and his ....what exactly?
This isn't perpetual looking at the present - it's an answer searching for a problem that doesn't exist and probably won't exist for quite some time. It's not like 25Gb (or 10Gb for that matter) is bleeding edge and becoming obsolete because it can't handle business as usual. It's been obsolete for ages (well and truly superceded by 'better' tech up to 800Gb now) and most of the stuff the OP is pointing to is cheap not because of high demand but because it's old stock and used gear that no-one (except members of this forum) wants. The reason it's not commonplace is because it's hard and expensive compared to legacy stuff, and most people seem happy with waiting a bit longer for a file to move as the file sizes get larger when compared to the investment in power/noise/heat/cost etc associated with upgrading EVERYTHING - not just the switch - to get 25Gb even if they had the gear that could actually use that bandwidth, which i'm not convinced they do and no-one has answered that question yet.I see the same thing with people campaigning for faster and faster USB, and yet they're still connecting the same spinning rust external HDD tthat they were ten years ago. The 'network' is just not the bottleneck.
Consumers aren't frustrated that their games are slow to load over their home network to the NAS in the basement - they're just installing NVMe expansion in the same box that runs the games. And they might be complaining that it takes ages to download a game update, but a 25Gb home network i(or 10Gb or even 2.5Gb) isn't going to do a darn thing about that.
Used mining dump trucks are pretty cheap compared to their new prices and have huge bandwidth as well - doesn't mean they are or should be consumer items for moving compost around your garden or that they need to get bigger and cheaper when new because "it's the march of progress". 25Gb is available if you want it. It's complicated (anyone see an unmanaged 4 port 25Gb switch with RJ45 connectors I can hook to my existing cabling?) and expensive and hard to live with but can be found if it satisfies a need for you. Your need doesn't mean that the rest of the consumer population has the same need, but if you think i'm wrong, go fund a startup to make cheaper gear for the home user and make a fool of me.
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There is NOTHING that a normal consumer is going to plug into their network that will need 25gb for a very long time to come. Honestly it will take some new technology that hasn't become "mainstream" yet (and likely doesn't even exist yet) before 25gb network speeds are going to be needed on a typical home network.
My entire point, and what you are clearly missing, is that the average consumer knows nearly nothing about their home network or what capacities/speeds they need. For the average person, "faster is better". This is the ONLY reason people would buy this type of equipment for a regular consumer home network. I'll I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of people that will buy this stuff simply because they will believe the marketing hype that will surround these devices being marketed to consumers (that "faster is better") and they have no idea what they really need.
I'm not advocating for the use of 25gb devices in the average home network (with today's technology needs). Furthermore, as far as I know there aren't any manufacturers actively marketing 25gb devices to the regular home consumer at this time, so what I am suggesting will eventually happen isn't happening yet. But it is going to happen long before 25gb networking is actually needed in the average home network simply because people are ignorant about networking and don't make decisions based on logic, but rather what they "think" to be true (that "faster is better").
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Oh, I do get your point - I just think you're dumbing down the consumer way too much.
You're trying to sell them a formula 1 car to take their kids to school, purely because faster is better and you believe that they'll accept that it needs a special fuel, they'll need a new license to drive it, it'll be hella expensive and loud and they'll have to wear a six point safety harness and helmet and only be able to drive it on thursdays using a special road. I don't believe they will. The guys with the performance package cars are the ones in copper/RJ45 land just up to 2,5 or 10Gb driving on the same roads as usual with the kids on the back. And this is where you're going wrong. You can convince users to buy hotted up factory cars - you won't convince them to buy race cars.
You can sell general people an RJ45 switch and wireless using any convincing argument you like because it's fundamentally compatible with the gear they've already got and are likely to buy. Copper and RJ45 isn't compatible with 25Gb
You'll never get consumers to buy SFP+ switches because of all the reasons above, no matter how much they think 'faster is better' because while they know race cars are faster, they aren't actually 'better' for what they want/need, and they'll directly vote with their wallet, or you'll get a bunch of returns because "it's not compatible". Joe average on the whole might be technologically dumb, but he's generally not going to buy something he can see that he can't plug his widget into.
You're trying to sell them a formula 1 car to take their kids to school, purely because faster is better and you believe that they'll accept that it needs a special fuel, they'll need a new license to drive it, it'll be hella expensive and loud and they'll have to wear a six point safety harness and helmet and only be able to drive it on thursdays using a special road. I don't believe they will. The guys with the performance package cars are the ones in copper/RJ45 land just up to 2,5 or 10Gb driving on the same roads as usual with the kids on the back. And this is where you're going wrong. You can convince users to buy hotted up factory cars - you won't convince them to buy race cars.
You can sell general people an RJ45 switch and wireless using any convincing argument you like because it's fundamentally compatible with the gear they've already got and are likely to buy. Copper and RJ45 isn't compatible with 25Gb
You'll never get consumers to buy SFP+ switches because of all the reasons above, no matter how much they think 'faster is better' because while they know race cars are faster, they aren't actually 'better' for what they want/need, and they'll directly vote with their wallet, or you'll get a bunch of returns because "it's not compatible". Joe average on the whole might be technologically dumb, but he's generally not going to buy something he can see that he can't plug his widget into.
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shouldn't 800gbe be the f1 car (hi verstappen!)?
25gbe should be a ford mustang gtd '24
25gbe should be a ford mustang gtd '24
I deal with the average consumer everyday. Most people don't. I suspect you don't. That being said, I'm also not saying the EVERY consumer will do this. It won't even be a majority. But there will be enough to attract manufactures to offer products at the consumer level at some point, and they will sell.
Anything requiring special equipment or rules fits this category. Transceivers, infiniband, fibre runs/DAC etc, minimum 24/48 ports etc etc. If joe average can't plug his router/pc/tablet/phone into it, it's a race car, no matter how fast it actually goes in the context of my example. As i said earlier, you'll sell commodity QSFP/SFP+ switches when commodity motherboards/small NAS's and routers come with QSFP/SFP+ sockets. You're not selling the same car with a bigger engine (ie faster=better), you're selling a completely new platform (racecar). Bit like the transition from 10Base2 and BNC connectors to twisted pair and RJ45 but with far less incentive for users with older existing infrastructure.shouldn't 800gbe be the f1 car (hi verstappen!)?
25gbe should be a ford mustang gtd '24
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I have a direct report in her 60's who still uses a calculator to add up values in a spreadsheet regardless of how much others try to teach her otherwise. I definitely think i'm in the right category here. You try telling her that a new widget is better when it won't connect to her stuff. She's got piles of money - you're just lacking a fundamental input which is "will it work?" As before, it's easy to upsell when the gear is compatible/seamless/un-noticeable, which is exactly what a higher speed internet plan and bigger engined car has going for it. But when it requires a full end to end change of equipment and some stuff just won't work at all, it's much much harder.
I'm getting 25gbps internet next week. Lots of use cases
I'm pretty sure we will see 25gbps arriving en mass to Aliexpress in next year or two.
cheap 10gbps switches is a norm these days. XikeStore is $70 for 8 port SFP+ 10gbps today.
Just because you can get a 25gbps residential line doesn't mean there are lots of licit use cases. You would need someone at the other end to open a big enough pipe to you for it to be meaningful, and most content providers etc aren't going to allocate that much bandwidth to a single user.
Inside the home, as others have said, there are really no multi-user use cases that need or can even make use of that sort of bandwidth and for the rare single use case that exists (basically, uncompressed RAW video editing) as others have said, you'd be better off with DAS. And that doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon, codecs and compute are improving faster than consumer demands for video quality (already very much into diminishing returns).
The oddball stuff like the XikeStore switch is either chasing a niche within a niche within a niche (only feasible with the AliExpress market reach) or it is intended for what I'd kindly refer to as the DIY commercial data center market, and not 1st world residential.
My personal take is the modern home user would be much better off with WiFi advances to actually catch up to 2.5gBE / whatever their internet access is, than a significantly faster, significantly more cost and power-intensive LAN they have no meaningful means of getting data onto, off of, or across.
Inside the home, as others have said, there are really no multi-user use cases that need or can even make use of that sort of bandwidth and for the rare single use case that exists (basically, uncompressed RAW video editing) as others have said, you'd be better off with DAS. And that doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon, codecs and compute are improving faster than consumer demands for video quality (already very much into diminishing returns).
The oddball stuff like the XikeStore switch is either chasing a niche within a niche within a niche (only feasible with the AliExpress market reach) or it is intended for what I'd kindly refer to as the DIY commercial data center market, and not 1st world residential.
My personal take is the modern home user would be much better off with WiFi advances to actually catch up to 2.5gBE / whatever their internet access is, than a significantly faster, significantly more cost and power-intensive LAN they have no meaningful means of getting data onto, off of, or across.
Holy crap, their prices are great too.
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must make inspecting your banking statements of lost fortunes a rapid affair.
How much does it improve fortnite over 10gb?
What are your "lots of use cases" beyond bragging rights about bandwidth to the local exchange? You backing up the internet again?
How much does it improve fortnite over 10gb?
What are your "lots of use cases" beyond bragging rights about bandwidth to the local exchange? You backing up the internet again?
Just because you can't come up with a use case, there are no use cases of other people.
My main use case is post-processing photos/videos from NAS on my PC over the 25gbps network. I'm in into photography and I'm only shoot RAW, which results in 120-160Mb files. Previously I would download them to my PC to put on NVMe, work on them and copy to NAS for storage.
Obviously if NVMe fails, I loose everything. Buying redundant stuff for PC is silly as I already have a powerful NAS.
So today I work over 25gbsp network powered by $800 Mikrotik CRS510 and 2 x $50 Mellanox Connect-X 4-e Lx.
Hell, I even can work on my laptop via one of these devices today and be happy in Lightroom
