Home server plans - help ?

which option

  • 2 new server and sell the rest

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4 diy hack

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
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Awerellwv

New Member
Aug 24, 2019
6
0
1
Italy (for now)
Hi Everyone i'm Eddie, thanks in advance for your help/comments.

I'm planning an upgrade on my actual home system and of course i'm really low budget.
Ms system is composed with a few
  • Hp DL 380 G7 - 1Cpu L5630 + 64Gb ddr3 ecc + 8*146Gb sas 10k
used as test machine for now and really never been used because i was abroad for a long time​
  • Hp Microserver N40l - 4*2Tb wd red +4Gb ddr3
used as my primary file server/nas with OMV
i also have a few 3.5" and 2.5" and i would like to put them to good use because the storage space is never enough :D and i planned a few options for a planned upgrade in the near future:

i plan to use the homeserver as:
  1. pfsense router
  2. windows domain controller
  3. nas/fileserver/privatecloud with xpenology/freenas
  4. all under esxi 6.5 hypervisor
i planned a few possible upgrade paths but which one i should take?
  1. sell the microserver, buy a second hand HP d2600 with 12*2TB disks, buy an HBA to manage the disk shelf and live with the terrifying noise of the fans of both machines (cost: about 700€)

  2. buy a combo: InWin MS08 + Supermicro A2SDI-H-TF + ram and cannibalize everything possible from the other 2 machines and what i have around (cost: about 800€)

  3. buy an HP dl380 G8 LFF, cannibalize the ram from the G7, squeeze all my drives there and then live with the terrifying noise of the fans (cost: 189€ + 12*30 for the caddies ARGH!)

  4. diy hack and attach a new drive cage to the microserver to increase storage, ditch OMV install xpenoloy, forget about pfsense and install an SHR because all my disks are different sizes? (cost: random)
Bonus question: is there 1 way to ghange the fans on the HP dl380 to more quieter options? if there's a solution please tell me!
 

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
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[*]buy a combo: InWin MS08 + Supermicro A2SDI-H-TF + ram and cannibalize everything possible from the other 2 machines and what i have around (cost: about 800€)
Regarding using that board with an MS08 (I have one myself), the A2SDi-H-TF expects a fair amount of airflow over the CPU heatsink that the HDD bay fans might not be able to achieve. Aftermarket heatsinks for these boards seem to be hard to come by in the EU with the only readily available replacement being the tiny supermicro model with the 50mm fan. Sadly I've not found anyone selling the Cooljag BUF-E in the EU and buying from the US is prohibitively expensive.

If you're planning on virtualising all of those services on the one host, personally I'd be edging toward a more powerful CPU; either a xeon-D or one of the "cheaper" xeons (like a s/h E3). As good as the C3000 atom's are for low-power servers, their single-threaded performance is mediocre which might become a bottleneck for some of your VMs (although you'd need to know your workload).

If you're planning on running everything under ESXi, double-check hardware support as these boards weren't very well supported by VMware when they came out. I don't know if it'll support the SATA controllers out of the box, or are you planning on passing these through to a VM?

Last I looked, all of the HP pizza boxes were screechingly loud and don't accept non-HP fans; although fan mods might be possible (I haven't looked) you'll be fighting the system the whole time. If quietness is a significant consideration you'll have an easier time with the DIY approach rather than using s/h stuff designed for datacentres, which is almost always loud.
 
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Awerellwv

New Member
Aug 24, 2019
6
0
1
Italy (for now)
... Sadly I've not found anyone selling the Cooljag BUF-E in the EU and buying from the US is prohibitively expensive...
mmm i see that cooljag has it's factories in china :D maybe i can source something from taobao (the chinese ebay)

If you're planning on virtualising all of those services on the one host, personally I'd be edging toward a more powerful CPU...
my workload is quite low, skipping the pfsense part i could reasonably do everything with just one DS 1819+ from synology, the point is that they use even lower CPUs and they are quite freaking expensive here in europe. and deliver it from china is even more unreasonable.

If you're planning on running everything under ESXi, double-check hardware support as these boards weren't very well supported by VMware when they came out. I don't know if it'll support the SATA controllers out of the box, or are you planning on passing these through to a VM?
i plan to use an HBA and passthorough pretty much everything.

Last I looked, all of the HP pizza boxes were screechingly loud and don't accept non-HP fans; although fan mods might be possible (I haven't looked) you'll be fighting the system the whole time. If quietness is a significant consideration you'll have an easier time with the DIY approach rather than using s/h stuff designed for datacentres, which is almost always loud.
i was hoping that there were some aftermarket produts that somehow could be smashed into the original fans, or at least a "relatively" easy solution that involves just a pin replacement/adaptation, and not through advanced soldering and arduino controllers...

if anyone has some insights or some verified solutions it would much appreciated, and a beer offered if we meet :)

---- edit ----

anyway thanks for your help, it's already helping me to clear my mind and start to approach a solution
 

WANg

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2018
1,308
971
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New York, NY
Hi Everyone i'm Eddie, thanks in advance for your help/comments.

Ms system is composed with a few
  • Hp DL 380 G7 - 1Cpu L5630 + 64Gb ddr3 ecc + 8*146Gb sas 10k
used as test machine for now and really never been used because i was abroad for a long time​
  • Hp Microserver N40l - 4*2Tb wd red +4Gb ddr3
used as my primary file server/nas with OMV
i also have a few 3.5" and 2.5" and i would like to put them to good use because the storage space is never enough :D and i planned a few options for a planned upgrade in the near future:

i planned a few possible upgrade paths but which one i should take?
  1. sell the microserver, buy a second hand HP d2600 with 12*2TB disks, buy an HBA to manage the disk shelf and live with the terrifying noise of the fans of both machines (cost: about 700€)

  2. buy a combo: InWin MS08 + Supermicro A2SDI-H-TF + ram and cannibalize everything possible from the other 2 machines and what i have around (cost: about 800€)

  3. buy an HP dl380 G8 LFF, cannibalize the ram from the G7, squeeze all my drives there and then live with the terrifying noise of the fans (cost: 189€ + 12*30 for the caddies ARGH!)

  4. diy hack and attach a new drive cage to the microserver to increase storage, ditch OMV install xpenoloy, forget about pfsense and install an SHR because all my disks are different sizes? (cost: random)
Alright, lets make this quick and sweet:

a) How much storage space do you need, and what do you need them for?
b) Whatever you are going to buy - is it going to sit out in the open at your home, or is it at some dedicated workshop/hobby room?
 

Awerellwv

New Member
Aug 24, 2019
6
0
1
Italy (for now)
a) How much storage space do you need, and what do you need them for?
the plan started like: the microserver is getting old and i would like to do something really nice with it...
also i have some spare HDDs that would like to put to good use before EOL...
  • 4*2Tb 3.5" sata wd red
  • 3*1Tb 3.5" sata (various)
  • 2*1Tb 2.5" sata
  • 4*146Gb 2.5" sas 15K
  • 4*146GB 2.5" sas 10K
i'm aware it's a quite mix of drives, and right now only the 2Tb are in use...

b) Whatever you are going to buy - is it going to sit out in the open at your home, or is it at some dedicated workshop/hobby room?
Considering that right now i just have a room, the system should be reasonably silent to used in an open room and not make your ears bleed.

alternative solutions are welcome :)
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
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Even 2 x 8TB WD red or similar would sort the bulk storage out and a nice low power NAS or system. Keep power costs low and cool/quiet.

Get an intel NUC or similar to mount data from a NAS maybe for playing around and lab stuff while keeping the NAS running 1 or 2 always on VM’s if you need ?
 

WANg

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2018
1,308
971
113
46
New York, NY
the plan started like: the microserver is getting old and i would like to do something really nice with it...
also i have some spare HDDs that would like to put to good use before EOL...
  • 4*2Tb 3.5" sata wd red
  • 3*1Tb 3.5" sata (various)
  • 2*1Tb 2.5" sata
  • 4*146Gb 2.5" sas 15K
  • 4*146GB 2.5" sas 10K
i'm aware it's a quite mix of drives, and right now only the 2Tb are in use...

Considering that right now i just have a room, the system should be reasonably silent to used in an open room and not make your ears bleed.

alternative solutions are welcome :)
*ugh*.
Okay, I know that it's pretty alluring to buy a bunch of EOLed servers off the rack and put them in your house, but seriously, don't. Well, do it if you have a "walled garden" in your place that you can throw servers in (a sound isolated, climate controlled room preferably with a rack and a dedicated 15+ Amp circuit). Some of us can afford to do so (say, a dedicated room or an underused garage), some are still "making their bones", so to speak. That's okay. I went through the same stages in the past.

If it's only a rented room, think of something that you can put up on a shelf, run 24/7 and still give you a decent night of sleep - you also have to think about the consequences of hanging a bunch of power hungry 1/2U servers on your power circuit. In my past residences I can't even microwave a burrito and keep the room air conditioning running at the same time in the living room, lest I trip the circuit breakers. You don't want to get into a situation similar to me where an ex- significant other messed up a RAID array because she was drying her hair and the circuit trip bought the servers down (it's partially my fault - the UPS battery was giving faulty status). And no, I didn't dump her because she messed up the array. I dumped her because she's...crazy.

So, what to do? First, ditch those SAS 146GB spinners - there's nothing more useless than small hard drives - even if they are SAS. In terms of latency, throughput and ability to deal with abuses, even the old Intel X25 SSDs will trample all over them, and on the newer stuff like the Crucial BX500s you don't even have a prayer - the NVMes are even faster. You shouldn't think re-use as much as replacement as they are a liability - like the old IT guy joke goes: hey, I have 1 flaky drive. How do I make it reliable? Add another one to make a slightly less flakey RAID array. And how do you make that array slightly less flakey? Add another 2 drives to make it even less flakey (RAID 10 it, or RAID5 it). Oh, and you will need an extra drive as a hot backup. Don't forget that you can only tolerate one or 2 drive failures, and any failures will require a long and I/O heavy rebuild period for the entire array (better pray to the elder gods during this rebuild period and hope that nothing else fails during this time). Hooh boy - before you know it you are looking at an 8 disk array eyeing for a 16...which is ridiculous.
At some point you need to recognize the signs of data/drive hoarding and admit that it's a problem. Then deal with it. You deal with it by deduping data, deleting/backing up stuff (into offline media or into the cloud) that is aged out, and getting rid of old low capacity drives and consolidating whenever possible. I have 4 6TB drives inside my N40L and I am now struggling to fill them with data - I parked a 40GbE Mellanox in my N40L and turned it into a FreeNAS storage box serving out NFS and iSCSI.

Now, what about computing? You could consider NUCs, but I consider them to be a little bit limiting in terms of expansion (no PCIe x8 or x16, only M.2 Slot E for Wifi cards), and most have limited CPU power to bring to the party (typically the U-series Cores). Some of them are also noisy when under load (my Gigabyte BRIX Pro 5775R certainly fit in that category - fast as hell (runs as well as a Xeon E3-1285v4) but if you push it under load, it spins up the fans and turns into a hair dryer - I ran Skanect (3D photogrammetry app) on my Brix until it was replaced with a used iMac (CUDA cores, baby!). It had a Realtek NIC and kinda sucked for Proxmox (mostly because of the limited networking - you can't park a Solarflare/Mellanox/Intel i540 in there and enable SRIOV). The other NUCs are like that - they might run Intel i217 NICs (which is a more stable animal, but no SRIOV VF support), but they still aren't great. You are still left wanting for I/O. The same also apply for Mac Minis (even though the 2011/2012s are good devices - I should know, I am a proud owner of a 2011 Mac Mini). You can in theory wire up multiple Mac Minis using their lightning ports, but if you need it to point to a NAS, that's an expensive TB2 to SFP+ adapter (500 bucks each).

What about repurposing the "big" thin clients? A few HP thin clients have PCIe slots (the gt7725/t620 Plus/t730/t740s), some have decent computing power (the gt7725s have the same family of CPUs as the N40L, the t620 plus runs the same family of chips as the PS3, the t730s are similar to a Broadwell-U, and the t740 is a Ryzen embedded device which should outrun the base model 2018 Mac Mini), good RAM expansion options (the t620 Plus/t730/t740 can all handle 32GB of RAM), and can be bought relatively inexpensively (all except the t740 can be had for less than 250 USD/piece if you hustle on eBay). Their problem? SRIOV doesn't work as intended, so if you want to do some fancy virtual networking in ESXi or Proxmox, either you can't do it, or it needs to be hacked to semi-work. I actually have a t730 connected to my N40L, and it does nothing but run my VMs. It works well enough (I did light up the onboard+fiber NICs for bonded networking, and a Mellanox 40GBit for iSCSI to the N40L NAS), but the big payoff is in the quietness/low impact to my electric bill (my cats sleep next to the machnes all the time). I don't need SRIOV (yet), but we shall see how well the BIOS support is on the t740 thin clients. If it is ACSCtl kosher/can do full SR-IOV, I'll most likely delegate part of the card as a VF and use it to do clustering in ESXi or Proxmox.

So what does that leave us? Well you can consider grabbing a few recent off-lease Corporate PC workstations - the Dell Optiplex 7050s, the Lenovo ThinkCentres, or the HP EliteDesks. Their Mini/Micro models are essentially corporate NUCs, their SFFs should have at least 2 RAM slots and one PCIe x16 slot, and their minitowers should have 4 RAM slots and 2 PCIe slots each. They should all be relatively stable and well documented, should have SRIOV enabled in the BIOS, they have decent CPUs (i7-6700Ts are nothing to laugh at), and best of all, they are designed to be QUIET. If you visit your local bank and see the PC parked on the corner, that should be one of those. They have limited resale values on eBay, and whenever vendors like HP or Dell announce new models or whenever a large corporate refresh happens, the inventory gets dumped and the pricing goes down (last I checked an Optiplex 7050 goes for about 500 USD). Consider buying one or 2, throw a few SSDs in there (boot drives don't need to be big) wire them up using 10/40 GbE (Twinax cables work well here), and then repurpose the Microserver as a NAS. The outlay is around the same ballpark as a 1 or 2U, you'll see less impact on your electric bill, and your room won't sound like a data center (which it should not be, anyways)
 
Last edited:

Awerellwv

New Member
Aug 24, 2019
6
0
1
Italy (for now)
Hi Everyone,

i would like to thank you all for the numerous ideas and alternatives you proposed to me, especially @WANg, @EffrafaxOfWug, were really helpful in clearing my myn in about what to do.

Sadly my plans have suddenly changed as my primary laptop just died and had to replace quickly as i'm moving from Italy to Ireland for a new job. I will move on saturday morning and i will simply upgrade the RAM on the microserver (hopefully to 16GB taking modules from the DL380) and switch to free nas. Also i will put my plan in action further in time as this microserver will stay in italy for at least the end of the year.

anyway thanks for your precious help, i will keep you updated once i have more news :)