Hi, if this is out of place deleted, but need an opinion.

[vl1969]

Hello everyone, the reason I am asking this here is that I want to get an unbiased opinion. Not something swinging one way or the other.

I am in plans to upgrade my 2010 Forester to new vehicle. My fozy is 10yo, 157k on the clock. I am the original owner. Under any other circomstances I would keep it as it is in a reasonably good shape. However, my daily commute is 80+ miles, thus I am putting it. Almost 500 miles a week, and a 10yo car with this mileage is not as reliable as I prefer it to be. If I had only short runs no problem.

My question is:.
Should I stick with a Subaru and go with 2020 Forester sport. Which I really like after some research.

Or go with 2020 Toyota RAV4 or even rav4 hybrid?

Now , I like the Forester, it drives great, spacious and comfortable. I have a very good dealer nearby for servicing. No local mechanics I can trust to work on suby.
But my Toyota dealer is much closer and more convenient, the reviews prase Toyota as more reliable in long run, and available hybrid trim has some desirable qualities to swing me that way.
I want AWD. So Subaru as a choice, and I trust only Toyota with quality AWD as well.
Thus choice is only this 2. BUT which one?

Let the war begin... ,

 

[Peanuthead]

If AWD drive is a must then Subaru has the best. Seriously. I have 2 4Runners and they are great in 2WD or 4WD! However, with that much commuting you are doing I might suggest a newer used Camry or something that gets ~30 mpg, and the cars are cheap to purchase and maintain. On a side note, if the Fozy is a XT Touring, give me a shout.

 

[vl1969]

If AWD drive is a must then Subaru has the best. Seriously. I have 2 4Runners and they are great in 2WD or 4WD! However, with that much commuting you are doing I might suggest a newer used Camry or something that gets ~30 mpg, and the cars are cheap to purchase and maintain. On a side note, if the Fozy is a XT Touring, give me a shout.

Thanks Peanuthead, however
, just to set the tone, I do not want the sedan. I want an SUV style, so no Camry for me.

No 2020 Forester sport gets 33m
And rav4 AWD gets the same.
Hybrid is even better.

I also agree that suby has one of the best AWD systems but I do not go off road so I guess Toyota system will do ok for me too.

PS.. no my fozy is not XT.
It is 2010 Forester premium 2.5i pzev. It is in decent shape with a few dings.
Like I said, if it wasn't for my commute I would keep it for another 5 or so years. I usually drive the cars to the ground but my new job is far so here I am.

 

[Peanuthead]

So this is an everyday vehicle or just for commuting? A RAV4 might be the best option if just you or a small family. A CPO RAV4 might be the best option due to the 100K warranty.

 

[vl1969]

This is an all around every day driver.
We have 2 cars. Wife drives 2014 corola le. And I what ever I have. Suby was my first new car in all my life. Wifes is our second new. I got her a 2003 Saturn, she drove it for 11 years, than we moved her to the corola. I was driving a 1999 Camry and decided that I deserve a new car and specifically SUV. So I wanted a santafe but was shut down by wife as too hard of a ride. Fozy was approved unanimosly.
We usually take my car everywhere. Wife only drives when she really need to. I do most of driving if we together.

 

[Wasmachineman_NL]

Volvo XC60?

 

[vl1969]

Volvo XC60?

Now that's qute. Ok let me be more specific

All I am asking is hel to choose between rav4 and Forester

My choices in no particular order:
2020 Forester sport
2020 Rav4
2020 Rav4 hybrid if I can get a good deal.

My budget is 29k total. That is OTG
I can push it to 30 maybe 31 but it is tight.
Also at the moment I am thinking that since I am working from home now maybe I can push the new car till the end of the year or even till next year.
But research is research. And a choice can be applied to next year models as well.

 

[Peanuthead]

If new is a requirement then get the vehicle that has the best deal from the list above. If new is not a requirement then a couple years used might be the best deal of all. For example, there is a 2018 RAV4 LE with under 23K miles for under 21K. It has a lifetime powertrain warranty too. Either vehicle is a great choice.

 

[vl1969]

Peanuthead, my question is not whether to buy new or used. You have a good point that I can. Probably find a good couple of years old model. Question is Subaru or Toyota mostly.
Is Toyota AWD good enough to compete against Subaru? I am not saying is it better, just at least close anough that if I have to go in off-road like condition it can handle it and not get me stranded. Last year snowfall I was Soo happy I had my fozy and not my Camry.

And is the RAV4 benefits outwait it's shortcomings enought to switch from Forester.?

The only things that working in RAV4 favor , for me, is the dealership and service is very close to my house so makes it very convenient for me.
And availability of hybrid with its mpg , make it very tempting for my commute.
Every thing else is just a gravy.

 

[kapone]

A slightly different opinion...

A used Tesla Model 3 or S (the dual motor versions), unless you REALLY go off-road?

The AWD is as good as anyone else (the low and balanced center of gravity of each of these cars is unrivaled) and given your commute, the operating costs will fall off a cliff. Anytime somebody mentions that long of a commute, my first choice is always a Tesla, budget permitting of course.

p.s. I have a Model S myself, and without being a Tesla fanboy, I'll never go back to a gas car ever again. EVs are that good and Tesla is one of the best.

 

[vl1969]

Ok, obviously people choose to ignore the facts that my Budget is way way under what even a used Tesla cost.
I did a search, and model 3 even 3 yo. Cost over 40k
And model S is over 30k
In fact I saw 2015 model S for 36k.

Also there other costs as well. Like installing a charger at home.

All that and the fact that I want an SUV body form make Kapone suggestion a no go. Sorry.

I do appreciate electric cars in principal, but I think that industry jumped into it a bit too enthusiastically without thinking.
A much better and easier move would have be , not dittiching ICE completleatly but build out an all electric platform with an ICE as power factory and range extender. Again not like today's hybrids but an all electric car with all the benefits of it. Good torque, good power, and no emissions. Than add a small power plant capable of generating 1.5 times energy needed to run the car.
This way you can, if need be, run the car on conventional fuel and charge the battery at the same time, yet still maintaine reasonable clean emition standard.
And ICE can run efficiently and with minimal pollution factor, it just can't do that in normal car implementation. But as a range extender it is perfect option.

 

[kapone]

Not disagreeing about the budget, which is why I said "a different opinion".

That being said, a car's budget is not just the initial cost to purchase. It's:
- Gas costs
- Maintenance
- Tires
- Brakes
- Insurance

etc etc.

My point is, I went through a similar debate (for myself) last year as my BMW (2001 740i) was on its last legs. We have a second car that we purchased new in 2016 (Honda Odyssey) because we needed a "bigger" vehicle with two kids. The BMW used to take about a tank of gas every week (93 octane gas with a 24 gallon tank) for ~$60. That's $240 every month, ~$3K per year. The Model S? Same driving distance, about 10-15% of that cost in electricity. That's a "saving" of about $2.5K per year.

It goes on and on. The Tesla's brakes last ~200K miles. The BMW (or other similar cars) brakes last ~30-40K.

Yes, Tesla's initial cost to purchase is high, but TCO (total cost of ownership) over 10 years? The Tesla wins. And I do keep my cars ~10 years.

Yes, range anxiety is something to think about. But with the Supercharger network (you didn't mention if you were in the US, are you?), it's not a concern anymore. You could drive coast-coast without range anxiety. And for everyday driving, range anxiety is not a concern at all.

p.s. A Model S holds ALMOST as much stuff as our minivan.

Not trying to sway your opinion, just offering a different perspective.

 

[Peanuthead]

I think this really is going to come down to what is it you want. I wouldn't discount the dealership distance and service if servicing will be done there. I think the Subaru AWD is superior compared to Toyota's lower models (my 4Runner can lock center diff, etc.). The other question is how much weight are you giving the AWD vs everything else? In the end it sounds like 6 and 1/2 dozen the other, so it comes down to what has the best deal.

 

[vl1969]

Hi Kapone, just an FYI, I am not dissing Tesla. I rode in model 3 a few times with
a co-worker, and I do appreciate what it can offer. However it will be a cold day in h...l when I can convince my wife to spend over 40k on a car. With all the TCO arguments and all.
Yes I am in USA. But I still think electric cars are not ready for public. For a business deployment sure. A rental company can afford to setup an needed infrastructure. A public service like taxi etc... Maybe as well. But private use is limited. IMHO.
As how much stuff it holds... Well it is not the deciding factor. I like the higher sitting position, more ground clearance, better suspension. Of the SUV.

 

[kapone]

Got it.

 

[vl1969]

I think this really is going to come down to what is it you want. I wouldn't discount the dealership distance and service if servicing will be done there. I think the Subaru AWD is superior compared to Toyota's lower models (my 4Runner can lock center diff, etc.). The other question is how much weight are you giving the AWD vs everything else? In the end it sounds like 6 and 1/2 dozen the other, so it comes down to what has the best deal.

Well that is the best observation so far.
I do believe that Subaru have best AWD system. I drove it for 10 years and been in a few heavy snow conditions where , if not for my Forester I would be sitting in a ditch. AWD is not the means to all ends. I know that Audi has a good AWD system too, yet I have seen an Audi sedan sitting in the snow all weels spinning and going nowhere. It simply did not have clearence in 12 inches of hard slush and snow where I just glide through.

When I got my fozy , we had a 3 foot of snow fall three week after. I took it to a parking lot of a Kmart near by and did donuts in 3 ft of snow for 20 min. Try that with anything else.


That said, in my case the layout is such:
For the Subaru I have a good prooven AWD system, great interior space overall, previous experience.
Against, no hybrid available, and dealership for servicing is about 20 min away.

For Toyota RAV4
A decent AWD. May not be as good as suby but not all to bad.
Good safety features, compatible and in some cases better than suby. Available hybrid model. Almost the same ground clearance. And probably a. Good ride as last time I drove a 2016 model.
A dealership is 5 min way. 15-20 min walking if need be

Against, smaller interior space, reported overall visibility issues. Unknown ride quality as of yet. A test drive will provide missing data. May push my budget beyond expected.