HBA for SFF Chassis (solved)

[winston1684]

Hello STH community!
I wanted to get some input into the best HBA card for my setup - my "server" is a repurposed SFF workstation (HP Elitedesk 800 G1 SFF) and I'm tired of the mess of usb adapters I am using so looking to build a DAS. While I can get a $50 LSI 9206-16e low profile I understand they run super hot so the SFF case airflow means its probably not a good option.

What is a good option? I want at least 8e (would prefer 16e for future expansion) as I want to run it out to an expander (looking at the Adaptec AEC-82885t due to price but open to others especially depending on connection compatibility) in a separate enclosure and obviously no raid as I'm just using the disks as basic storage (have a separate backup system so raid redundancy isn't needed).

As far as price, it's sort of a sliding scale but tends towards the cheap end. I'm looking to stay under $400 for the DAS build and host card, not counting cables and the actual disks. Using a Netapp or other server disk shelf is a no-go as my space is a shelf by my bed, but I'm pretty sure I have the DAS end sorted aside from the expander for under $275 before I even go bargain hunting.

My server is only connected with 1GbE right now but I may upgrade to 2.5 this year so the absolute fastest is not needed but if the difference between 6Gb/s and 12Gb/s is only a few bucks why not go with the faster option (assuming it can handle my airflow).
My server currently runs in a 74f room with the CPU reporting about 82f/28c with the CPU hitting 50% load Hit me with suggestions and real-world data! Thanks!

 

[gaidin123]

Given the SAS2 HBA you mentioned, I've used the 9207-8e successfully in an HP Elitedesk G4 SFF chassis with a thinner Noctua fan aimed at it to cool it better. That should still let you get ~48Gbps not accounting for overhead from whatever storage you're attaching. The 16e card would give you more connectors but is more theoretically limited by the pcie 3.0 x8 slot bandwidth (64Gbps before overhead). The 9206-16e cards do run super hot even though they're one of the only 4 port external SAS2 HBAs around.

Using a SAS expander will allow even a single port on either of these HBAs to address some large number of drives. Think of each connector as providing up to 24Gbps theoretical and it will split that amongst the number of drives attached to that expander card that are active at any given time up to the bandwidth of the link to that drive (6/12 Gbps). Expanders may also let you connect multiple HBA cables (e.g. 2 would get you theoretically 48Gbps to that expander). If you aren't going to slam the drives on a regular basis, a 1Gb-2.5Gb network can only really saturate 1-2 spinning disks. Having something super fast on the storage would be good for scrubs and maybe rebuilds but shouldn't really alter your user experience day to day.

In terms of SAS2 vs. SAS3, I believe the power/heat may be higher with SAS3 so if you don't know that you need the higher bandwidth it may not be worth that cost. At the same time, some SAS3 HBAs are more modern and may better support higher C states (eg 9500-8i/16i) and can still work with SAS2.

 

[BLinux]

If heat is a concern, it is best to stay with the older SAS2008 cards, or go with the newer ARM based Broadcom HBAs like the 9400-16e or newer. The ARM based HBAs have gotten the power consumption and heat under control. Skip the stuff that's in between.

 

[winston1684]

If heat is a concern, it is best to stay with the older SAS2008 cards, or go with the newer ARM based Broadcom HBAs like the 9400-16e or newer. The ARM based HBAs have gotten the power consumption and heat under control. Skip the stuff that's in between.

Beig the 9400-16e brings the price up a lot are there any SAS2008 cards that are particularly bad or good? HDD size limits? Or is the 9400-8e a good card? Since my plan is to use an expander I can get by with 8e (will probably only start with about 5 drives) I was just looking at 16e cards due to most only being a bit more for double the capacity and thinking about the future.

 

[BLinux]

Beig the 9400-16e brings the price up a lot are there any SAS2008 cards that are particularly bad or good? HDD size limits? Or is the 9400-8e a good card? Since my plan is to use an expander I can get by with 8e (will probably only start with about 5 drives) I was just looking at 16e cards due to most only being a bit more for double the capacity and thinking about the future.

There's the 9200-8e... but all the -16e cards of that generation were full profile, and some full length. If you want -16e in low profile half length, the 9400-16e is what I would choose for low cooling requirements.

 

[UhClem]

... my "server" is a repurposed SFF workstation

Please elaborate, and give details.
If a Dell/HP/Lenovo pre-built, exact model name/#.
If a build-up, exact mobo and case.

[... so looking to build a DAS.] ... to an Adaptec expander ...

Be specific. Do you mean the AEC-82885t ?

Without this level of detail, it isn't possible to, creatively, give you the most optimal (cost-effective, future-proof etc) solution.

 

[mattventura]

Do you really need 16e? You didn't mention SSDs, so I'm assuming these are spinners. A SAS2 8e still gives you a total of 48gbit/s raw, which is enough for 20+ hard drives being used concurrently, potentially more depending on drive performance. Since you're not RAIDing them, it's less likely that you'd be maxing out the bandwidth of that many drives at the same time anyway.

Anyway, 9300-16e is power hungry and runs hot, because the 9300-16i and 16e are just two 9300-8i/e and a PCIe switch on one PCB. The 9305 and 9306 are a single SAS controller, so they aren't as hungry.

 

[winston1684]

@UhClem - my apologies - the base system is an HP Elitedesk 800 G1 SFF and yes the Adaptec AEC-82885t is on the list of expanders I'm looking at - it seems to be readily available for cheaper than other cards and can be powered by molex 4 pin along with having external connectors to attach to host. that said other expanders would be considered depending on the connector type used by the host card. I will update the op with this info for others reading this thread in the future.

@mattventura - my initial disks will all be spinners, but I will probably be adding SSDs at a later date (I always try to over-provision when buying tech so I can go longer between having to buy - within the limits of my budget)

 

[Marsh]

My standard compute build for DAS

Dell optiplex 5060 or 7060 sff I5-8500 ( USA ebay price between $50 - $75 ) , add 16gb ram ( $25)
LSI 9200-8e $20 , LSI9200-16e $35
Dell as 3 SATA ports and 1 nvme for your SSD.

add one 80mm fan inside Dell sff , use a fan cable splitter to power the fan,
nice about Dell sff , there is already a place to mount the 80mm fan.
Fan is only few inches in front of PCIe card , it cools the internal very well.

Not much money.
I5-8500 is really sweet spot for cost vs performance

 

[winston1684]

@Marsh I already have my compute - but the vote for the 9200 has been noted - and good to know a simple fan can keep it cool.

 

[winston1684]

Ok as a second option - I may have enough room to fit a mid-tower case beside the shelf all my network gear is on. so maybe suggestions on cases under 10" wide with lots of HDD bays also? Though will still need to pick an HBA.

 

[UhClem]

@UhClem - my apologies -

"not applicable" - you did nothing wrong; it's just that details can really help us to help you.

the base system is an HP Elitedesk 800 G1 SFF

OK, now I know you have PCIe gen3 for the HBA (but your white slot is only x4/gen2), etc.

and yes the Adaptec AEC-82885t is on the list of expanders I'm looking at

list? for a DAS, today (@ $20) it's the best by far.

... that said other expanders would be considered depending on the connector type used by the host card.

not to worry. SFF-8088 to SFF-8644 cables are common.

Regarding physical constraints (size, noise etc) on your DAS itself, take note that the SAS cable(s) from HBA to DAS can be quite long (8-10 meters), allowing flexibility in placement. Maybe, you don't even need/want a case. Visualize a stack of these [Link]

plus expander and PSU(s) in the back corner of a closet.

As for HBA, my vote is with @gaidin123 for a 9207-8e. for the PCIe gen3. Bandwidth-wise, the 9200 maxes at ~2800 MB/s (can't even saturate PCIe x8 gen2) while the 9207 can do 4500 (and can do 3400 on a x4 gen3 slot).

 

[winston1684]

@UhClem while I would willingly put everything in those but it's in the bedroom and clearly visible so wife approval factor is an issue.
Turns out I have just enough space beside the network shelf to place a tower case so instead of building a das I'm looking at just rehoming the entire server - I'm just pricing things to see what makes the most sense.

 

[winston1684]

For anybody coming across this in the future I ended up swapping the SFF motherboard into a tower case (Thermaltake Chaser MK-1) and putting it in the space beside the shelf. For the HBA I went with a 9207-8i (internal since it's all in one case now) and as of now I don't have an expander, but the case has plenty of room for HDDs so as I fill it up I will look at adding one when needed.
Interestingly my thermals did not improve going into a bigger case with more air flow but I guess you can't make much change when the delta vs the room tends to stay around 9 degrees F already. Guess HP really knew what they were doing with the airflow in the SFF case.