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nitrobass24

Moderator
Dec 26, 2010
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I don't really care about preventing "Hurt feelings". I do think, its easy for an FS thread to become cluttered with noise from people publicly disagreeing over price when those parties aren't interested in making a deal.

The downstream impact of not having people move their conversation to PM is that the FS thread is constantly being bumped at the expense of other peoples FS post. At the end of the day, this isn't Reddit.
 
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Aestr

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
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I'm torn on this one. Personally I'm fine with saying take all comments on price and terms to PM as I'm comfortable with researching prices on what I buy, but I know we have a lot of newer users here that might not know where else to look and may otherwise spend more than they need to. I've used PMs and replied in threads depending on the situation.

I think in the end constructive, respectful feedback is key and respecting that once you've made your point that the seller still has a right to ignore your feedback, even it means they won't likely get a sale. Often a seller will see the input as an attack (sometimes rightfully so), responds defensively and then we end up with a page worth of argument. That's not helpful for anyone and that's where I think we should focus on improving.
 
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T_Minus

Build. Break. Fix. Repeat
Feb 15, 2015
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I don't really care about preventing "Hurt feelings". I do think, its easy for an FS thread to become cluttered with noise from people publicly disagreeing over price when those parties aren't interested in making a deal.

The downstream impact of not having people move their conversation to PM is that the FS thread is constantly being bumped at the expense of other peoples FS post. At the end of the day, this isn't Reddit.
I agree that impact would be bad but I don't feel like it's occurring that often to cause it.

I also believe having discussion in a for sale thread makes them much more personable. It seems like all other hardware sale threads/forums are so forcefully sanitized and void of conversation they're lacking the sense of community we have here.

I like seeing sale forums where users help users from everything on price, to other components they may need, offering to sell something to them, etc... to me we're a big community here and also unlike other forums we offer/help other users in all aspects of the forum no matter for sale or DIY thread.


I'm torn on this one. Personally I'm fine with saying take all comments on price and terms to PM as I'm comfortable with researching prices on what I buy, but I know we have a lot of newer users here that might not know where else to look and may otherwise spend more than they need to. I've used PMs and replied in threads depending on the situation.

I think in the end constructive, respectful feedback is key and respecting that once you've made your point that the seller still has a right to ignore your feedback, even it means they won't likely get a sale. Often a seller will see the input as an attack (sometimes rightfully so), responds defensively and then we end up with a page worth of argument. That's not helpful for anyone and that's where I think we should focus on improving.
yep, agreed.
 

nitrobass24

Moderator
Dec 26, 2010
1,087
131
63
TX
I also believe having discussion in a for sale thread makes them much more personable. It seems like all other hardware sale threads/forums are so forcefully sanitized and void of conversation they're lacking the sense of community we have here.
Totally agree and I am not against constructive conversation. There have been some instances where people are just seemingly trolling for a fight and offering their opinion on people FS post which is not constructive.

To your point, it may not be happening enough right now to warrant a rule modification. As with all rules though they are up to folks like us to leverage them as guardrails and moderate when its necessary in a thoughtful manner.

I am completely against the bot-based sanitization that other forums have taken.

For now maybe we parking lot this and re-visit as things evolve.
 

PigLover

Moderator
Jan 26, 2011
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Unfortunately its a fine line between price "discussion" and "price shaming". Its also a fine line between offer discussion and "threadcrapping". This is why the bot-based approach probably doesn't work.

Good deals get done between willing buyers and willing sellers. If you price it too high nobody will buy - and if they do buy at the high price nobody got ripped off. Notice in particular that nobody seems angered when they get the great deal, nobody craps on them for "ripping off the seller".

If we don't insist on pushing these discussions quickly to PM then we (as moderators) have to become very aggressive about policing, making subjective decisions on what is cordial and appropriate discussion and what is shaming/threadcrapping. From a moderators perspective I'm not really comfortable with that.
 

Patrick

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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Heading (half asleep from jet lag) into meetings.

My sense is that:
  • I have no issue with high list price / high discount models if that is what people are doing with their listings. I mean, 60%+ discounts on new gear is standard in many segments. If someone is just holding out for a higher price I have no issue either.
  • I think there is a distinction between a price discussion with an intent to purchase and one just to incite.
  • I do not mind positive guidance.
  • It is extremely hard for a moderator to judge whether a comment on price coincides with an intent to purchase (e.g. part of a negotiation). I think that there are those who will "TC" just to drive a negotiation and those who will "TC" just because they are having a bad day.
Need to think about this a bit more. I can see the value of having the rule. I can see the desire to keep a positive atmosphere. I also agree that it has the high probability of demanding too much on moderators to enforce such a rule. Enforcement would also get ugly.

I am leaning toward no rule at the moment. What I tend to do is send folks PMs personally if I am alerted to something that people see as too aggressive of a "TC". I do not like doing it in general, and do so very sparingly simply to address tone. I think asking others to do so is not fair.
 
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pricklypunter

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2015
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Canada
How about adding something either to the rules or even another sticky entirely, that is more general sales advice rather than a rule per se, and point users to it before they create a new post in the forum. Something like make sure to do a quick check on ebay, newegg etc and mention that pricing at the average selling price (market value) or below will likely result in interested buyers, but selling at, near or higher than retail price from reputable vendors will likely result in little interest in the sale etc. Also, beef up the advise for buyers generally, but new buyers in particular, things like make sure you check what the current market value is for the item, as an average, make personal contact with the seller via PM, Email, Telephone etc and satisfy yourself that the seller is genuine. Do not hand over cash via wire transfer or other means that is untraceable after the fact, or enter into any deal or contract where you feel uncomfortable etc. Make sure buyers realize that if it does go sideways, they have done all they can to protect themselves from any financial pain, likewise the same goes for sellers, make sure they realise that buyers can be scam artists also and that they also should take appropriate measures to make sure their buyers are genuine and only accept payment via recognised safe platforms.

I'm not meaning that this should be an enforceable rule, just some friendly advise for sellers and especially new buyers. It is just common sense, but it's amazing how easily you can get carried away in a sale and not do things that would otherwise protect yourself if it went wrong.

I like the for sale threads as they are. Generally folks are well mannered and sales of goods take place trouble free for the most part, as far as I can tell from reading through the various posts anyway. It would be a shame to lock down folks to strict rules, after all, the majority of these posts are members that are simply flipping their unwanted/ unused equipment to get a bit of money towards their next project. Having folks ask questions about items that are for sale and having those questions answered is all part and parcel of trading goods, and like any post, it should reasonably stay on topic. If someone sets a price for their item, that does seem on the high side comparatively speaking, it is obviously their choice and will probably result in little if any sales. Likewise if someone else points that out to them, where they can show evidence of it, and as long as it's a polite nudge intended to help the seller, I see no harm in it. I would draw the line though at anyone trying to badger the seller into lowering their price, they have been advised of the situation and it's their for sale thread. As for moderation of said forum, obviously it's a balancing act. I appreciate that it must be hard for moderators to be able to be seen to do the right thing, without having at least some blow back from those being moderated or asked to behave, you can't please everyone all the time, but common sense and good manners should guide folks when posting, just like posting in any other forum and when the time comes where someone crosses that line, I'm happy to see moderators step in and counter that behaviour. The forums at STH are a "happy" place for most of the members here, I would like to see it continue that way and if that means folks sometimes need their adrenalin pump turned down a bit, so be it :)