FS : 2 x Seagate ST4000DM00 4 TB SATA-3 drives

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madbrain

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I tested both just a week ago with h2testw . This tool fills the entire disk, hashes the content, then reads it back and verifies the hash. All came out good.
Smartctl shows no reallocated sectors.

$39 for one or $69 for both.

Will ship to US or Canada via USPS priority at cost. Payment by Paypal or Google Pay.

seagate-4tb-1.png
seagate-4tb-2.png
 
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Samir

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That's a lot of head load events considering the power on hours. Did these drives sleep a lot?
 

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I used to run these as RAID 0 in my desktop, which did go to sleep and back at least once a day, due to the very high energy costs in CA. It would have cost many times the cost of the drives to keep the computer on 24/7.
 
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Samir

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Makes sense. That's pretty nuts--I know my CA bills match my AL ones and the AL ones have a nuclear plant in the back yard--I don't get it!

Any warranty left on them?
 

madbrain

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Makes sense. That's pretty nuts--I know my CA bills match my AL ones and the AL ones have a nuclear plant in the back yard--I don't get it!

Any warranty left on them?
No warranty left.

I think it's time for me to add to the 40 solar PV panels on my roof. Have 2 plug-in electric cars, hot tub, 2 central ACs, 7 computers ... It all adds up. My solar PV panel has already paid for itself, though. This will be the second expansion. May need batteries too since we are in an area where PG&E shut us off for "safety" last year. Sigh.
 

Samir

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No warranty left.

I think it's time for me to add to the 40 solar PV panels on my roof. Have 2 plug-in electric cars, hot tub, 2 central ACs, 7 computers ... It all adds up. My solar PV panel has already paid for itself, though. This will be the second expansion. May need batteries too since we are in an area where PG&E shut us off for "safety" last year. Sigh.
Thank you for the additional details. :)

Yes, solar is one of the long-term future energy sources that is proving a nice roi in a lot of applications. And those roving power outages sucked--it was the 3rd world for 2 days for most of our friends. I don't know how they did it. :eek:
 

madbrain

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Thank you for the additional details. :)

Yes, solar is one of the long-term future energy sources that is proving a nice roi in a lot of applications. And those roving power outages sucked--it was the 3rd world for 2 days for most of our friends. I don't know how they did it. :eek:
The power outage was dramatically stressful for me. I use a CPAP to sleep and am at risk of dying without power. I bought 4 Backup UPS 1500W that turned out to be precharged. Unfortunately, each one only lasts about 4 hours with the CPAP. Sigh.
Our outage was only 16 hours. I had a coworker in Marin County who was out for a whole week.
It really did feel like a third world country.

Unfortunately, with PG&E, the peak hours are getting inverted with the TOU rates. Meaning they will pay you squat for solar power during the day. And charge you an arm and a leg at night. Thus, batteries become a necessity, otherwise your solar power is a free generator for PG&E and doesn't help your bill much. I really am not sure what to do. Our power bill would be $7k a year without the solar PV. About $1500 right now. But will go way up with TOU changes in 2022.
 
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Samir

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The power outage was dramatically stressful for me. I use a CPAP to sleep and am at risk of dying without power. I bought 4 Backup UPS 1500W that turned out to be precharged. Unfortunately, each one only lasts about 4 hours with the CPAP. Sigh.
Our outage was only 16 hours. I had a coworker in Marin County who was out for a whole week.
It really did feel like a third world country.

Unfortunately, with PG&E, the peak hours are getting inverted with the TOU rates. Meaning they will pay you squat for solar power during the day. And charge you an arm and a leg at night. Thus, batteries become a necessity, otherwise your solar power is a free generator for PG&E and doesn't help your bill much. I really am not sure what to do. Our power bill would be $7k a year without the solar PV. About $1500 right now. But will go way up with TOU changes in 2022.
:eek: I can completely relate to you needing the cpap machine to sleep--my mom had als and needed a phillips machine constantly or she would be out of breath in about 30 seconds. Generally our power was pretty stable and the breathing machine had its own backup batteries, but after one power outage that left her with 45 minutes left before the power came back on, I got some 2200va UPS units just for her phillips giving her a total of almost 16hrs. Still, the other problem was that she couldn't make it that long without ac, so if the power was going to be out more than an hour, we were leaving the house to a relatives that has ac. I can only imagine what it was like for you.

Wow. Well, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run because once you have enough battery storage, why do you even need the grid anymore? Too bad Tesla's implementation of their products has been so terrible. I think they've got a solution, but it doesn't seem to have any real support. But tbh, after our buying experience of a model 3, that shouldn't surprise me--they still owe us a hundred something from a billing mistake.
 

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:eek: I can completely relate to you needing the cpap machine to sleep--my mom had als and needed a phillips machine constantly or she would be out of breath in about 30 seconds. Generally our power was pretty stable and the breathing machine had its own backup batteries, but after one power outage that left her with 45 minutes left before the power came back on, I got some 2200va UPS units just for her phillips giving her a total of almost 16hrs. Still, the other problem was that she couldn't make it that long without ac, so if the power was going to be out more than an hour, we were leaving the house to a relatives that has ac. I can only imagine what it was like for you.
Sorry to hear about your mom. Can't image what dealing ALS would be like.

Wow. Well, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run because once you have enough battery storage, why do you even need the grid anymore? Too bad Tesla's implementation of their products has been so terrible. I think they've got a solution, but it doesn't seem to have any real support. But tbh, after our buying experience of a model 3, that shouldn't surprise me--they still owe us a hundred something from a billing mistake.
Well, because the sun doesn't much in the winter. Also, electricity consumption from electric cars goes up by 35% to run the electric heater. The hot tub in the winter also uses much more. The A/C doesn't have to run, but overall, the net daily pulled from the grid is much higher in the winter.

Some days when it rains, solar production is near 0. Sometimes (rarely) it rains one week in a row. I think we would need at least 1000 kWh of batteries to never run out in the winter. And also 3 times as many solar panels, which our roof couldn't fit.
Last time I checked that would cost about half a million dollars. It might be down to half that now. But of course the batteries don't last forever.
Very sadly running a mansion off grid with solar power and batteries just isn't cost effective. A large diesel natural gas backup generator would cost much less, and would actually fit on my lot. But I really hate the idea of it. The water company just behind my house has one, and it ran during those 16 hours of PSPS the whole time. Noisy and smelly. I don't really want that in my backyard also ...
 
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Sorry to hear about your mom. Can't image what dealing ALS would be like.



Well, because the sun doesn't much in the winter. Also, electricity consumption from electric cars goes up by 35% to run the electric heater. The hot tub in the winter also uses much more. The A/C doesn't have to run, but overall, the net daily pulled from the grid is much higher in the winter.

Some days when it rains, solar production is near 0. Sometimes (rarely) it rains one week in a row. I think we would need at least 1000 kWh of batteries to never run out in the winter. And also 3 times as many solar panels, which our roof couldn't fit.
Last time I checked that would cost about half a million dollars. It might be down to half that now. But of course the batteries don't last forever.
Very sadly running a mansion off grid with solar power and batteries just isn't cost effective. A large diesel natural gas backup generator would cost much less, and would actually fit on my lot. But I really hate the idea of it. The water company just behind my house has one, and it ran during those 16 hours of PSPS the whole time. Noisy and smelly. I don't really want that in my backyard also ...
She almost made it the max 3 years they gave her--she passed away March 16, 2019. :'( The good part was that it was as peaceful as one could ask--went to sleep Friday and just faded out Saturday morning.

My dad was her primary caregiver and after she was gone, he finally got some checkups and found out he had colon cancer. His surgery had complications, but he ended up healing fine and then underwent chemo that is just finished last month. And then last week, he had to go to the hospital ER and is now in the ICU on a ventilator because he has covid pneumonia. :'( It's been a rough 2 years.

Interesting that the winter pulls so much more. Of course, the AC and stuff doesn't really work hard during the summer, so that is probably it.

Yeah, the economics are definitely not here yet if a 1000kWh system costs that much. And generators definitely aren't the solution because they too need maintenance, etc. And they can fail as a close call in April of 2011 at a nuclear plant near my dad's place almost made a nice Chernobyl/Fukashima in his back yard:
NRC: Event Notification Report for April 28, 2011
 

madbrain

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She almost made it the max 3 years they gave her--she passed away March 16, 2019. :'( The good part was that it was as peaceful as one could ask--went to sleep Friday and just faded out Saturday morning.

My dad was her primary caregiver and after she was gone, he finally got some checkups and found out he had colon cancer. His surgery had complications, but he ended up healing fine and then underwent chemo that is just finished last month. And then last week, he had to go to the hospital ER and is now in the ICU on a ventilator because he has covid pneumonia. :'( It's been a rough 2 years.

Interesting that the winter pulls so much more. Of course, the AC and stuff doesn't really work hard during the summer, so that is probably it.
Wow, that is rough. Hope your dad recovers from COVID. Actually, I live in the hills, and the AC works very hard. Two ACs, one per floor. When we bought the house 10 years ago, there was only one AC, for the top floor. But sometimes it is necessary even on the ground floor. Especially in the home office I'm typing this in, and in the home theater with all the A/V stuff. We had all the HVAC system replaced. New ACs, new gas furnaces, and 10 zone Carrier Infinity system. One of the best thing I did, except this stuff can't network at all. Not a problem to press buttons locally with the shelter in place, though ...

As noted, the two furnaces run on natural gas, so they don't use electricity in the winter. The two water heaters are also natural gas. So is my clothes dryer upstairs. And the grill outside is on city gas too. If we wanted to go all-electric, our bills would be even higher ...

Yeah, the economics are definitely not here yet if a 1000kWh system costs that much. And generators definitely aren't the solution because they too need maintenance, etc. And they can fail as a close call in April of 2011 at a nuclear plant near my dad's place almost made a nice Chernobyl/Fukashima in his back yard:
NRC: Event Notification Report for April 28, 2011
Yes, the batteries are definitely not economical. Certainly not at homeowner scale. Going off-grid is really a last resort option, when there is no electric grid to connect to. And if you size your PV to cover all your needs in the winter, you are going tons of excess electricity in the summer, 2 - 3x more what than you know what to do with.

As for nuclear - my dad worked was a nuclear physicist. He never worked at Chernobyl or Fukushima. But he co-discovered the charm quark. He worked at several power plants and particle accelerators in Europe. He died 10 years ago from stage 4 pancreatic cancer after only 3 months, like 3 of 20 scientists in his lab in France. Normal incidence rate is like 1 in 10,000 . We are certain it has to do with radioactivity exposure. The supposedly "safe" doses just aren't, and people develop issues decades later even with small amounts.
 

Samir

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Wow, that is rough. Hope your dad recovers from COVID. Actually, I live in the hills, and the AC works very hard. Two ACs, one per floor. When we bought the house 10 years ago, there was only one AC, for the top floor. But sometimes it is necessary even on the ground floor. Especially in the home office I'm typing this in, and in the home theater with all the A/V stuff. We had all the HVAC system replaced. New ACs, new gas furnaces, and 10 zone Carrier Infinity system. One of the best thing I did, except this stuff can't network at all. Not a problem to press buttons locally with the shelter in place, though ...

As noted, the two furnaces run on natural gas, so they don't use electricity in the winter. The two water heaters are also natural gas. So is my clothes dryer upstairs. And the grill outside is on city gas too. If we wanted to go all-electric, our bills would be even higher ...



Yes, the batteries are definitely not economical. Certainly not at homeowner scale. Going off-grid is really a last resort option, when there is no electric grid to connect to. And if you size your PV to cover all your needs in the winter, you are going tons of excess electricity in the summer, 2 - 3x more what than you know what to do with.

As for nuclear - my dad worked was a nuclear physicist. He never worked at Chernobyl or Fukushima. But he co-discovered the charm quark. He worked at several power plants and particle accelerators in Europe. He died 10 years ago from stage 4 pancreatic cancer after only 3 months, like 3 of 20 scientists in his lab in France. Normal incidence rate is like 1 in 10,000 . We are certain it has to do with radioactivity exposure. The supposedly "safe" doses just aren't, and people develop issues decades later even with small amounts.
I hope so too! It won't be the same at his place without him here. :( Ah yes, that can get warm. That's a lot of AC work and couldn't have been cheap! :eek: My dad's place needs all 7 units replaced. The original Tranes did a great job, but after 25 years, they're done. Interesting how newer systems would be networked--not sure how I feel about that.

Gas is really expensive at his place so you see it in winter bills for sure. We actually stopped heating the pool because of it, just keeping it from freezing. I still remember our commercial dryers were gas fired in the hotels we used to own--and they would get HOT! You could actually burn yourself if you pull out sheets too fast without letting them cool for at least 30 seconds. Gas definitely does heat more efficiently than electric--especially on a grill or stove. I'm lucky that at home I've got gas on the stove--electric drives me nuts now after having gas for so many years.

Very interesting problem. So community batteries or 'power storage'? If no one is getting a bill for the power and just for the maintenance maybe it would work?

At one point my dad and I were just fooling around and were brainstorming building a city from scratch using closed-loop thinking such as mandatory solar roofs with no utility bills only maintenance fees/battery fees, Internet all over the city with built-in infrastructure. Every conceivable 'smart' system and renewable available--solar, wind, both. Different economic development zones, etc. We had some pretty good ideas that made sense when we ran the numbers, and others that just weren't feasible--yet.

Very cool that your dad worked on quark discovery. :) Yes, those odds definitely didn't reflect the 'normal incidence rate'. I suspect there is something similar going on with the nuclear facility in my dad's town as the rate of als patients on one road in a nearby city is over 50% for a disease that is extremely rare in the general population. And there's been incidents like leaking tritium into the drinking water (gasp!):

Bioaccumlation is a real thing or we wouldn't have to worry about our sushi.
 

madbrain

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Interesting how newer systems would be networked--not sure how I feel about that.
To be fair, my 10 zone system is now 10 years, so not exactly new anymore. There is a proprietary bus for devices to talk to each other. Things like thermostats, but also dampers furnace and A/C . There are 2 buses in my house. The IP network interface used to cost $1000. And there was no consumer software for it. There are now a couple open source software projects that can work with basic installations. But nothing that can work with my 2 system / 10 zone monster. Yes, it was expensive.

Gas is really expensive at his place so you see it in winter bills for sure.
Yeah, we have decent size gas bills in winter in CA with the big house. But with the zoned system, we don't heat every room 24/7.

We actually stopped heating the pool because of it, just keeping it from freezing. I still remember our commercial dryers were gas fired in the hotels we used to own--and they would get HOT! You could actually burn yourself if you pull out sheets too fast without letting them cool for at least 30 seconds.
The Whirlpool gas clothes dryer isn't anywhere near this hot. Never enough to get a burn for sure.

Gas definitely does heat more efficiently than electric--especially on a grill or stove. I'm lucky that at home I've got gas on the stove--electric drives me nuts now after having gas for so many years.
Well, I have been cooking with induction for 15 years. 5 at my previous home. I replaced the traditional electric cooktop with a Kenmore 30" induction cooktop. One of the best things I ever did. And one of the first things I did before moving into my new house was also to replace the 36" Thermador gas cooktop with an induction model, a Kenmore 36". The same guy who was doing the HVAC in the house ran the additional 50 amp circuit for it. It's much safer than gas. And actually also way faster, also. Using a pressure cooker on my induction cooktop, I can make have rice in my plate in under 10 minutes. That's counting all the prep time like measuring the water amount precisely, bring the water to a boil (under 1 minute), measuring and adding the rice, one more minute to get full pressure, then 6 mins of actual cooking, and a minute or so to wait for pressure to release. I have done this 3 times this week, including earlier tonight. The Basmati rice I used to have only required 4 mins of cooking. But the Jasmine Thai Hom Mali I got at Costco last time requires 6 mins. My next bag of rice will be Basmati.

Very interesting problem. So community batteries or 'power storage'? If no one is getting a bill for the power and just for the maintenance maybe it would work?

At one point my dad and I were just fooling around and were brainstorming building a city from scratch using closed-loop thinking such as mandatory solar roofs with no utility bills only maintenance fees/battery fees, Internet all over the city with built-in infrastructure. Every conceivable 'smart' system and renewable available--solar, wind, both. Different economic development zones, etc. We had some pretty good ideas that made sense when we ran the numbers, and others that just weren't feasible--yet.
I honestly don't know what the solution is. I think it's crazier than that. There is nothing that is ideal year round. You need more PV and batteries in the winter, and far fewer in the summer. I'm thinking there needs to be some portable PV and battery installations you can rent, and just plug them in half the year when you need them. You would need big dedicated circuits. The utilities might not appreciate. Permitting process could make that infeasible. Unless there is a standardized plug and standard-size generators ... Certainly doable for batteries. For solar PV, much trickier as the actual wattage depends on the season ... All this equipment could be moved between north/south continentally depending on seasons. Also between hemispheres :)

And there's been incidents like leaking tritium into the drinking water (gasp!):

Bioaccumlation is a real thing or we wouldn't have to worry about our sushi.
Yikes. Even my two reverse osmosis purification systems can't do anything about radioactive water.
 

Samir

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To be fair, my 10 zone system is now 10 years, so not exactly new anymore. There is a proprietary bus for devices to talk to each other. Things like thermostats, but also dampers furnace and A/C . There are 2 buses in my house. The IP network interface used to cost $1000. And there was no consumer software for it. There are now a couple open source software projects that can work with basic installations. But nothing that can work with my 2 system / 10 zone monster. Yes, it was expensive.

Yeah, we have decent size gas bills in winter in CA with the big house. But with the zoned system, we don't heat every room 24/7.

The Whirlpool gas clothes dryer isn't anywhere near this hot. Never enough to get a burn for sure.

Well, I have been cooking with induction for 15 years. 5 at my previous home. I replaced the traditional electric cooktop with a Kenmore 30" induction cooktop. One of the best things I ever did. And one of the first things I did before moving into my new house was also to replace the 36" Thermador gas cooktop with an induction model, a Kenmore 36". The same guy who was doing the HVAC in the house ran the additional 50 amp circuit for it. It's much safer than gas. And actually also way faster, also. Using a pressure cooker on my induction cooktop, I can make have rice in my plate in under 10 minutes. That's counting all the prep time like measuring the water amount precisely, bring the water to a boil (under 1 minute), measuring and adding the rice, one more minute to get full pressure, then 6 mins of actual cooking, and a minute or so to wait for pressure to release. I have done this 3 times this week, including earlier tonight. The Basmati rice I used to have only required 4 mins of cooking. But the Jasmine Thai Hom Mali I got at Costco last time requires 6 mins. My next bag of rice will be Basmati.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. I think it's crazier than that. There is nothing that is ideal year round. You need more PV and batteries in the winter, and far fewer in the summer. I'm thinking there needs to be some portable PV and battery installations you can rent, and just plug them in half the year when you need them. You would need big dedicated circuits. The utilities might not appreciate. Permitting process could make that infeasible. Unless there is a standardized plug and standard-size generators ... Certainly doable for batteries. For solar PV, much trickier as the actual wattage depends on the season ... All this equipment could be moved between north/south continentally depending on seasons. Also between hemispheres :)

Yikes. Even my two reverse osmosis purification systems can't do anything about radioactive water.
Sounds like your system was cutting edge when it came out. I can't see any real advantage to networking it though besides remote temp/humidity monitoring and control. I mean, it's not like the units do much more than that. And then there's the whole risk of hacking just for that little bit of convenience--not sure if it's worth the tradeoff.

Interesting. I'll have to look into zoned systems. I know that the existing units at my dad's house are just traditional on/off systems with a thermostat and ducts.

Oh yeah consumer ones would never get that hot, but the commercial ones were always close to being an oven if you turned them up on high. But nothing like drying 30 queen sheets in 15 minutes. :D They definitely did their job well.

Interesting. I love my dad's Thermador appliances. Even though they're older, they're really nice tools for cooking. I will have to check out induction though as it is picking up in places like India where everything is gas. If my mother in law starts to use it, it has to be good. My wife got tired of pressure cooking rice and just got a rice cooker with a delay feature, lol.

I think the logistics of moving things will be far more expensive than some sort of shared build-out with a communal cost--like maybe a battery bank the city keeps for residents or something like that. Or a zip code. Or a use needs to be found for these things off peak--like using the solar PV to charge other portable 'battery trucks' or something like that. Logistics seems to get more and more expensive every day even though they are getting more and more efficient.

Yep, and the city water is only checked every 7 years for radioactivity. Pretty scary considering the cancer rate is always much higher in communities with nuclear power and nuclear power is nearly everywhere.
 

madbrain

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Sounds like your system was cutting edge when it came out. I can't see any real advantage to networking it though besides remote temp/humidity monitoring and control. I mean, it's not like the units do much more than that. And then there's the whole risk of hacking just for that little bit of convenience--not sure if it's worth the tradeoff.

Interesting. I'll have to look into zoned systems. I know that the existing units at my dad's house are just traditional on/off systems with a thermostat and ducts.
The thermostats talk to each other. There is one master thermostat per system, and then slave thermostats for each zone. Also, depending on the way the ducts are configured, the system needs to know which damper to close/open when calling for heat/AC in one zone.
There isn't a duct for each zone going all the way to the master A/C furnace. Think of it as wired in series.

I already had a similar system in my previous - but 3 zones. So it wasn't cutting edge in 2010 either.

Interesting. I love my dad's Thermador appliances. Even though they're older, they're really nice tools for cooking. I will have to check out induction though as it is picking up in places like India where everything is gas. If my mother in law starts to use it, it has to be good. My wife got tired of pressure cooking rice and just got a rice cooker with a delay feature, lol.
Well, India doesn't have the most reliable electric grid as I understand, so perhaps gas is the right choice over there.
I still have a double 30" electric wall oven that came with the house that must be over 2 decades old now, and still works.
I simply do not have the patience for a rice cooker. I need speed. Same as in my cooking as for my networks :)


I think the logistics of moving things will be far more expensive than some sort of shared build-out with a communal cost--like maybe a battery bank the city keeps for residents or something like that. Or a zip code. Or a use needs to be found for these things off peak--like using the solar PV to charge other portable 'battery trucks' or something like that. Logistics seems to get more and more expensive every day even though they are getting more and more efficient.
Well, if you don't move anything, and you only have a local grid - not national - then you find yourself with the same problem as off-grid : too much solar PV and batteries in the summer. If the local utility rips you off and wants to buy your excess electricity at wholesale prices, but charge you full price for what you consume, why would you do it ? Not mention they would use your own battery for storage, too.
Yes, moving stuff is expensive, but we are talking 3 cents/kWh wholesale rate vs 50+ cents/kWh peak rate here. At scale, that must buy a ton of logistics. Move it all by electric trains, powered by all that excess electricity. Hell, have the trains draw energy from the battery packs they are transporting. No need for any electric lines :)

Yep, and the city water is only checked every 7 years for radioactivity. Pretty scary considering the cancer rate is always much higher in communities with nuclear power and nuclear power is nearly everywhere.
Yeah, nuclear is everywhere, but they are not putting any more capacity online in the US and many European countries.