Flood of used Cisco 3945 routers on eBay

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Terry Kennedy

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2015
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www.glaver.org
If you are looking for a router that runs a relatively modern version of Cisco IOS, either for learning purposes or because you just like Cisco routers, eBay is flooded with used 3945s because the whole product family (19xx / 29xx / 39xx) just started going EoL - you can't add them to a support contract as of December of last year, but software updates will be available through at least the end of 2020. [Note - if you don't have one already on contract, you can't get the updates from Cisco. But a number of 'unofficial' sites have them.]

3945s come with a wide variety of software licenses (enforced by the hardware). A large number of the ones on eBay have come from a brick-and-mortar clothing store chain with a 3-letter name starting with G. Those units have a single PoE-capable power supply, 1GB of RAM, 1 64-channel voice DSP card, a 2-port T1 card, and 2 24-port 10/100 PoE Ethernet switching modules. The included software licenses are ipbase (needed to do anything), security (needed for VPN, etc.), uc (needed for VoIP stuff) and data (lots of obscure protocols like DECnet, Netware, etc. as well as support for things like network analysis modules). One eBay seller (username surfday, labels his listing pictures as WaveCom) has been selling these since the beginning of the year for $149 with free shipping, and has sold several dozen. He has 4 of them listed right now as item 372613076106. I've purchased several from him and they have all been fine, though they vary from slightly dusty to positively caked with dust - I suggest a good blowing-out with canned air before powering them up. Other than that, I have no connection with him (or any other eBay seller of similar equipment).

If you don't know Cisco IOS and don't need to learn it, these aren't for you. But if you want to learn, these can run the latest "classic" IOS - 15.7(3)M4. There are a lot of online resources for learning IOS, and I can try to help people when I have time. Note that these are neither quiet nor particularly low power consumption - you can visit the Cisco web site and search for "3945" to read all of the documentation / specs / etc. (you don't need to register to do any of that).

[Note - any hotlinks in this post are auto-generated advertising links and were not added by me.]
 
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CreoleLakerFan

Active Member
Oct 29, 2013
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$149?

IMO, for those serious about learning Cisco IOS, VIRL is a better option at $199 for 20 virtual devices for a year. Buy a switch for the L2 practice.
 

Terry Kennedy

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2015
1,140
594
113
New York City
www.glaver.org
Edited to add that I'm really not trying to give you attitude here. I just wanted to point out that these are available, for a good price (or a great price if you're West Virginia :rolleyes:) if you're in the market for a router that runs a current Cisco IOS with decent performance, either to learn on or if you just want a piece of reasonably-current enterprise hardware.
$149?

IMO, for those serious about learning Cisco IOS, VIRL is a better option at $199 for 20 virtual devices for a year. Buy a switch for the L2 practice.
What do you think is a reasonable price for these to sell for, if you think $149 is too high? Bear in mind that the seller offers free shipping (of a 50+ pound device) to anywhere in the US. Also, you get 2 PoE switch blades (although they're 10/100 only) as part of the package, along with a nice set of licenses. Never mind the prices Cisco asks for licenses - even the $35-a-pop Chinese sellers will set you back $140 for those 4 licenses.

I haven't used VIRL (I have an excess of hardware in the office, including 2 42RU dedicated test racks), but reading the release notes for the latest version, you get emulation of an unspecified router model with a slightly older IOS image and unspecified feature licenses. Even assuming you get "the kitchen sink", how does VIRL emulate (for example) physical POTS phone lines or options such as a Prime NAM on a SRE? Can it handle a BGP table update fast enough to avoid dropping the BGP session? Can it run the SSL VPN package in real time? I'm genuinely curious - those were some of the major limitations of Dynamips (back when that emulated supported hardware like the 7200).

Don't get me wrong - emulation software is great, particularly at the beginning when you have a whole [virtual?] classroom full of people who are proceeding through lessons at pretty much the same rate. But once the students are to the point where they are developing their own reasonably complex topologies, it would help to have some real hardware in place. Particularly if you are fighting with one of the many IOS bugs that are hardware-specific (object-groups that don't work, the VSS crash on switches, etc.), nothing beats experience with the actual hardware.
 
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CreoleLakerFan

Active Member
Oct 29, 2013
485
180
43
Edited to add that I'm really not trying to give you attitude here. I just wanted to point out that these are available, for a good price (or a great price if you're West Virginia :rolleyes:) if you're in the market for a router that runs a current Cisco IOS with decent performance, either to learn on or if you just want a piece of reasonably-current enterprise hardware.
None taken. :)

What do you think is a reasonable price for these to sell for, if you think $149 is too high? Bear in mind that the seller offers free shipping (of a 50+ pound device) to anywhere in the US. Also, you get 2 PoE switch blades (although they're 10/100 only) as part of the package, along with a nice set of licenses. Never mind the prices Cisco asks for licenses - even the $35-a-pop Chinese sellers will set you back $140 for those 4 licenses.
I don't have any issue with the price - it's a good deal for the hardware. My comment was more a reflection of the belief that in 2019 it's much more efficient to run virtualized in a personal study Lab than to invest in specific pieces of gear.

I've had stacks of Cisco gear over the last 15 years - I literally *just last year* recycled the Catalyst 2901 I got back in 2003 (ish, I can't remember my lab setups from that far back) so I that I could practice on a CatOS set-based switch for my CCNP studies back in the day. A few months ago I gave away a bunch of 2610XMs I'd use for another iteration of a lab refresh. I still use my 2509 from the original lab as a terminal server for the remaining switches in my 24U rack in the garage, and I'll be keeping that one until it dies. I also have a couple of ASA 5606x and Firepower VM that I acquired to build that skillset just before I got into VIRL ... not sure what to do with those just yet.

I haven't used VIRL (I have an excess of hardware in the office, including 2 42RU dedicated test racks), but reading the release notes for the latest version, you get emulation of an unspecified router model with a slightly older IOS image and unspecified feature licenses. Even assuming you get "the kitchen sink", how does VIRL emulate (for example) physical POTS phone lines or options such as a Prime NAM on a SRE? Can it handle a BGP table update fast enough to avoid dropping the BGP session? Can it run the SSL VPN package in real time? I'm genuinely curious - those were some of the major limitations of Dynamips (back when that emulated supported hardware like the 7200).

Don't get me wrong - emulation software is great, particularly at the beginning when you have a whole [virtual?] classroom full of people who are proceeding through lessons at pretty much the same rate. But once the students are to the point where they are developing their own reasonably complex topologies, it would help to have some real hardware in place. Particularly if you are fighting with one of the many IOS bugs that are hardware-specific (object-groups that don't work, the VSS crash on switches, etc.), nothing beats experience with the actual hardware.
I like VIRL because it's a Cisco product with full featured licensed IOS which are regularly updated, and mostly because it includes virtual optimized versions of NX-OS, IOS XRv, CSR-1000v, and ASA. It can get really expensive buying gear or renting rack time to get hands on for those OS. The Layer-2 capability VIRL is notably lacking, which is why I still have a set of switches in my lab.

I definitely agree that hands on with real gear is beneficial, but all of the above is hard to beat for a yearly subscription fee of $199 and the cost of the hardware you need to run it on.
 

TechGambino

New Member
Jan 25, 2019
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Cisco's CCIE labs are almost entirely virtualized. Good enough for Cisco, good enough for me. Buy Cisco switches (also voip stuff) for your lab, virtualize the rest.
 
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