Fiber type question

[tullnd]

Hi,
You guys helped with a previous thread on setting up my new home's network. I've finally begun the physical wiring. I've finished the first floor and am preparing to wire up the second floor.


Cliff notes:
Looking to run fiber from basement to attic, back to a 2nd floor switch, to avoid a ton of cat6 cabling up to the second floor. Purely because of difficulty in finding location to run from basement to attic. Pricing for SM fiber and SFP's seems cheap enough to justify doing that over MM, even though I'm way short on the distance to really "need" SM fiber even for future 10Gb upgrades. Any reason NOT to run SM fiber? Figure I only need half the cables over MM duplex, so less physical space. Can do 4 drops and have two active on a LAG and two unused backups. Or is there a reason to choose MM Duplex over SM in my case?


Long story below:

My friend doing the wiring was not thrilled at trying to find a way to get 9 Cat6 drops(2 for each bedroom and 1 for a ceiling mount AP) all the way from the basement, to the attic, then dropped back to each location. He's asked me to consider installing a switch in a large utility closet on the second floor and just running a 1Gb fiber link(or two 1Gb in a LAG) so it'll be physically easier to run the cable.

I have a switch in the basement with two SFP ports(Dell Powerconnect 2724), that was given to me but I may replace it with some suggestions I was give in a previous thread. I also have a Cisco SG300-10 that would provide me enough ports to do the 9 Ethernet and 1SFP or I could just leave one ethernet disconnected for now and still do 2 SFP's in a LAG.

Now, there's also a chance I may have to relocate my first floor office to the second floor at some point in the future(if the girlfriend convinces me to give up the office so she can have a study on the first floor).

So I'm thinking about what fiber to run. I'm guessing I need about 45-50ft to get from my basement rack, to the wall location, up two stories to the attic and a short distance to the utility closet. I'd like to add another 20ft or so of excess cable, so if I do relocate my office up stairs, there'd be enough slack to run that fiber down the wall of that room and probably put the switch in there eventually.

I know I'm plenty short enough of a run to do MM vs SM...but the SFP modules for 1Gb SM seem to be around $25 or less for the pair for these two switches. On www.fs.com I can get armored SM cable for less than $20 a run. So I could do 4 cables(figure why not run more than I need?) and have two active links, two backups and no concerns about future upgrades(although I don't see myself upgrading both switches to be 10Gb capable for several years probably).

Is there a reason why I should consider doing a MM in duplex instead? I understand that when I do go to 10Gb, but doing it in SM simplex will be much more expensive, but I'd suspect prices will have come down by then and it may just be the difference between a $30 MM SFP module vs a $60 SM SFP module.

 

[Scott Laird]

The best answer to "should I pull X or Y between points A and B" is generally to install conduit, which makes future pulls nearly trivial, and then pull the cheapest thing that'll work today.

If that's not an option, then I'd probably pull duplex MM (either OM3 or OM4) anyway, because it'll be fine for pretty much anything in the near term, up to and including 40 Gbe with bidi optics.

If you *really* want to future-proof things, then pull a few runs of both MM and SM MPO/MTP cables (12 fiber is probably fine), because that'll cover practically everything up to and including 100 Gbe, but (a) you'll pay through the nose for it, (b) you'll probably end up needing expensive breakout hardware to use it with anything with an LC connector anyway, and (c) odds are it'll end up being obsolete before you get around to using it.

Or, if you're just connecting a pair of 1000 Gbe switches for home use, consider just pulling a hunk or two of Cat 6 and use that instead. How likely are you to have more than 1 Gbps of traffic going over the link?

 

[Jerry Renwick]

The cost difference between MM SFP+ and SM SFP+ transceivers is not that great, take the Cisco SFP+ as an example, Compatible 10GBASE-SR SFP+ from FS.COM is $16, while SFP-10G-LR is only $34. However, you shouldn't forget about the expense of hardware and the maintenance cost before using it.

As for the performance, the SM optics can support long-haul application and ideal for future proof.
You have mentioned that the distance is very short, then I will suggest you using MM cables, as this is totally sufficient for your current situation, and will save your money at the same time.

 

[Pete L.]

While I am all for running Fiber I am still missing the point of the Running Fiber VS Copper in this case. You aren't anywhere near the limits of copper and if you are thinking that you might go 10G eventually you can still go with Copper as 10G Base-T is out and will eventually come down in price.

With that in mind you aren't going to get any more bandwidth from the Fiber VS Copper unless of course you think you might go to 40Gb or 100Gb in the future. If that is the case then you would certainly need fiber as least with today's current standards.

If you are insisting on going with Fiber then personally I would go with Single Mode and it will give you the BiDi Option (as mentioned already) but it is more expensive especially when going 10G. I would still go with Duplex Runs just because it will give you more options down the road and even if you do go BiDi you have additional runs that you can use if need be. I would also suggest getting the armored fiber, it is still thinner than normal Cat 5 / 6 and gives you a little more protection.

While there is nothing wrong with having multiple switches in multiple places throughout a house / building, I really like to try and keep everything as centrally located as possible. I have most of my runs going in to a little half rack in my basement where I have my Switches, NAS and Servers. I also have some small switches throughout my House just to give me the additional ports (like in my Home Theater). This also lets me have 1 larger UPS to keep my network up and running over items spread out (my additional switches are POE Powered from one of my basement switches).

This now becomes personal preference and of course is subjective as everyone has their own way of doing things.

 

[Jon Massey]

If you're pulling a run, always pull more than you need. Over those distances there's no need at all for SM, and you'll be paying more for the fibre itself and the transceivers. The only potential advantage of SM over MM at this distance is the ability to use BiDi lamps to get twice as many logical links per physical. But, BiDi lamps are more expensive again.

If I were you and you're set on using fibre for this application, I'd pull 4x or 8x OM3 (or 4 if not that much extra cost) which will cover you up to 100G at the distances you're talking. I'd buy a preterm at the right length and style for where you're pulling it and terminate in wallboxes. Neat, secure (protects your expensive and hard-to-install structured cabling from damage) and with 8x fibres you're pretty well set for future expansion.

 

[tullnd]

While I am all for running Fiber I am still missing the point of the Running Fiber VS Copper in this case. You aren't anywhere near the limits of copper and if you are thinking that you might go 10G eventually you can still go with Copper as 10G Base-T is out and will eventually come down in price.

I'm with you on this. The ONLY reason we're considering doing this is the alternative is 9 Cat6 cables, bundled together, and fishing them through the two floors up to an attic. I have no routes along an air duct that travel two stories. I'll have to drill up through a floor board, through a bottom 2x4, through the upper 2x4 of that wall, through another floor board, another base plate 2x4, and then the top 2x4 up into the attic. I'd rather not drill holes bigger than 1" in diameter in those 2x4 boards. So this means multiple runs, possibly off different stud walls. That means cutting significantly more drywall.

The idea of fitting fiber in there was just one that, due to it being significantly thinner than cat6, and the higher speed uplink capability in the future, I could easily do a few cables and just do a second switch. I'd still prefer to have all my switches in the basement, but this seemed like a good compromise.

I think what we're going to try and do is just buy some Carlon HPDE flexible duct and run it from the basement to the attic. Then I can pull whatever I need, when I need it in the future easily. Maybe just do 2 sets of MM Duplex OM4 and leave it at that for now.

Again, if I didn't think my office would move upstairs, I'd be perfectly content to run two Cat6 cables to interlink it with a 2x1Gb lag. But I'd like to have the option for 10Gb up to my office(the office being the only thing that would ever benefit from the higher speed) and I don't see myself needing a full 10Gb base-T switch any time soon based upon the cost. Probably only 4 boxes total that would use it, so SFP+ connections seem to be quite a bit cheaper.

 

[aero]

I'm of the opinion that if you must run any additional cabling between floors, then go ahead and run fiber. It's future-proof. Cat6 is not. I'd go with single-mode though to keep options open with BiDi transceivers if needed in the future.

 

[Pete L.]

I'm with you on this. The ONLY reason we're considering doing this is the alternative is 9 Cat6 cables, bundled together, and fishing them through the two floors up to an attic. I have no routes along an air duct that travel two stories. I'll have to drill up through a floor board, through a bottom 2x4, through the upper 2x4 of that wall, through another floor board, another base plate 2x4, and then the top 2x4 up into the attic. I'd rather not drill holes bigger than 1" in diameter in those 2x4 boards. So this means multiple runs, possibly off different stud walls. That means cutting significantly more drywall.

The idea of fitting fiber in there was just one that, due to it being significantly thinner than cat6, and the higher speed uplink capability in the future, I could easily do a few cables and just do a second switch. I'd still prefer to have all my switches in the basement, but this seemed like a good compromise.

I think what we're going to try and do is just buy some Carlon HPDE flexible duct and run it from the basement to the attic. Then I can pull whatever I need, when I need it in the future easily. Maybe just do 2 sets of MM Duplex OM4 and leave it at that for now.

Again, if I didn't think my office would move upstairs, I'd be perfectly content to run two Cat6 cables to interlink it with a 2x1Gb lag. But I'd like to have the option for 10Gb up to my office(the office being the only thing that would ever benefit from the higher speed) and I don't see myself needing a full 10Gb base-T switch any time soon based upon the cost. Probably only 4 boxes total that would use it, so SFP+ connections seem to be quite a bit cheaper.

Ok then another suggestion is to go with "Trunk" Cables this will give you 6 - 12 - 24+ Fibers in a single "Cable" Fiber Store offers them as well as the "Cassettes" needed to break them out to the individual fibers. I would also suggest going with Single Mode (I think I already mentioned that) as you can go with Duplex Now and BiDi in the future if you want. The fiber is about the same price (MM vs SM) but the Single Mode SFPs are a little more than MM and BiDi are even more (about $50 each instead of $16)

 

[tullnd]

Ok then another suggestion is to go with "Trunk" Cables this will give you 6 - 12 - 24+ Fibers in a single "Cable" Fiber Store offers them as well as the "Cassettes" needed to break them out to the individual fibers. I would also suggest going with Single Mode (I think I already mentioned that) as you can go with Duplex Now and BiDi in the future if you want. The fiber is about the same price (MM vs SM) but the Single Mode SFPs are a little more than MM and BiDi are even more (about $50 each instead of $16)

Good suggestion! I'll look at that. For some reason I thought additional equipment was necessary for that setup, but if it's at all in price with running individual(it can be more, but reasonable), I'll definitely consider it. Thanks for the idea. I'm trying to do this with some cost control, still allowing for reasonable future proofing.

 

[fractal]

I am far, FAR from an expert in this field but I do have a couple of thoughts.

1- Several companies make 8 (or more) port switches that are powered by POE. I have never heard of POF. Would it make sense to run cat5e cables connected to a POE switch or injector? This saves you from having to put the remote switches where it is convenient to get power. A second floor closet is a good place for a switch. Attics are generally not recommended due to temperature swings and dirt.

2- I have the tools to terminate cat5e. I do not have the tools to terminate fiber. All the fiber I have purchased is pre-terminated. The plugs on the end of the fiber are pretty big. Are you sure that you will end up with smaller holes by pulling plastic instead of copper if you have to purchase your plastic that is pre-terminated in LC connectors?

 

[tullnd]

I am far, FAR from an expert in this field but I do have a couple of thoughts.

1- Several companies make 8 (or more) port switches that are powered by POE. I have never heard of POF. Would it make sense to run cat5e cables connected to a POE switch or injector? This saves you from having to put the remote switches where it is convenient to get power. A second floor closet is a good place for a switch. Attics are generally not recommended due to temperature swings and dirt.

2- I have the tools to terminate cat5e. I do not have the tools to terminate fiber. All the fiber I have purchased is pre-terminated. The plugs on the end of the fiber are pretty big. Are you sure that you will end up with smaller holes by pulling plastic instead of copper if you have to purchase your plastic that is pre-terminated in LC connectors?

For statement one....I'm not looking for POE. Not sure what you are commenting about with "POF". As stated, I intend on putting this switch in a utility closet that has electric, so I'm not worried about how to power it.

For statement two, all the fiber runs I plan on purchasing would be "patch" or pre-terminated. As far as concerns about the size of the plugs, they're still smaller than cat6 connectors and the cables are significantly thinner. You only need to run one plug through the hole at a time, along with the previously run cables. You don't have to push all plugs up at once, as you can stop, push one strand, then the next, then the next to get multiple plugs through.

I'm drilling 1" diameter holes, that's it. Nothing bigger. The cable alone for 9 cat6 lines would fill a hole that big probably.

 

[Pete L.]

Good suggestion! I'll look at that. For some reason I thought additional equipment was necessary for that setup, but if it's at all in price with running individual(it can be more, but reasonable), I'll definitely consider it. Thanks for the idea. I'm trying to do this with some cost control, still allowing for reasonable future proofing.

You have a few options if you go with a trunk cable, you can do one that has a single connector that will require special "Breakout" Modules like these...

Your other option is to buy a breakout cable that has normal LC Ends on it, this will still give you the same 12 / 24 / Even 48 fibers options like this.

Lots of options.