ES Xeon Discussion

[RolloZ170]

With which boards do ES or QS CPUs work?

QS work on all motherboards, QS is prod.stepping/cpuid just ES bit is set.
gigabyte MS03/33/73(C741) run SPR ES out of the Box with latest BIOS(EMR ES with BIOS mod)
avoid supermicro if you want to run ES.
ASRock do not support SPR ES, BIOS mod possible.
ASUS unknown to me (never had one at home)

Do you have any penalties regarding functionality besides a lower speed?

SPR ES do not have lower speed.
SPR D0 ES get no microcode updates, no known bugs solved.

 

[ServerWidder]

QS work on all motherboards, QS is prod.stepping/cpuid just ES bit is set.
gigabyte MS03/33/73(C741) run SPR ES out of the Box with latest BIOS(EMR ES with BIOS mod)
avoid supermicro if you want to run ES.
ASRock do not support SPR ES, BIOS mod possible.
ASUS unknown to me (never had one at home)

SPR ES do not have lower speed.
SPR D0 ES get no microcode updates, no known bugs solved.

Thank you for your fast response. I read a little bit through the thread and saw that you actively help all member, also thank you for your support and expertice.

After reading a little bit more through the threads:

So this means on a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 Mainboard i can run 2x Intel Xeon Silver 5411N QS CPUs without modifications?

On the ES CPUs is there some kind of gurantee that features like AMX work or are the active feature set depending on the sold ES CPU?
I am asking this because I see offerings like 2*Intel Xeon Platinum 8592+ ES Q2SR+ with a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 Mainboard or 8480ES with QYFR.

Kind regards

 

[RolloZ170]

So this means on a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 Mainboard i can run 2x Intel Xeon Silver 5411N QS CPUs without modifications?

sure. QS are meant for driver programmers, valtidation purposes, or Magazine-People(tester)
normaly they have to return the QS after usage, but not in any case.

On the ES CPUs is there some kind of gurantee that features like AMX work or are the active feature set depending on the sold ES CPU?

no gurantee. better chance with 5th gen. ES.

I am asking this because I see offerings like 2*Intel Xeon Platinum 8592+ ES Q2SR+ with a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 Mainboard or 8480ES with QYFR.

QYFR is stepping D0, early ES. Q2SR is 5th gen. EMR A0 ES (prod. stepping is A1)
many user here still run Q2SR(EMR A0 ES) for llm, but all EMR A0 need a little help (BIOS tweak)

 

[capone.ephraim]

For those who might be interested in using PMEM with SPR SE Xeons. I've got QYFS CPU working. Originally I wanted Q2SR, but I had several Series 300 pmem dimms, so I decided to give'em a try. System config:

QYFS CPU,
MS33-AR0 Gygabyte mb,
128 GB DRR5 (4x32GB), SK Hynix 32GB DDR5-4800 ECC RDIMM PC5-38400 HMCG84MEBRA1xxN
512 GB Pmem, (4x128GB), Intel NMC2XAD128GQS

PMEM firmware
Firmware version: 03.01.00.2671
Firmware API version: 03.05
Firmware Active API version: 03.05



MB had R11 BIOS when I received it. It didn't boot with pmem - stuck at memory initialization with B7 POST code. After multiple tries it worked with F01 BIOS from here. I had to manually provision pmem though. I still have error displayed when accessing BIOS setup screen or Total capacity in PMEM configuration.



Linux detects all 512GB as well as BIOS.



Provisioning:

Open Advanced tab in BIOS setup. Go to Intel(R) Optane(TM) Persistent Memory Configuration->Provisioning->Create goal config. Set Memory Mode [%] to 100.



Hit Create goal config. Save & Exit.

I tried to use ipmctl to do the same but it didn't work.

The system also booted with F10 BIOS version, but I didn't try if I can provision pmem with it. With F17 and R09-R11 it didn't boot. Stuck at B7 POST code, memory initialization.

Hope this might be useful.

 

[ServerWidder]

sure. QS are meant for driver programmers, valtidation purposes, or Magazine-People(tester)
normaly they have to return the QS after usage, but not in any case.

no gurantee. better chance with 5th gen. ES.

QYFR is stepping D0, early ES. Q2SR is 5th gen. EMR A0 ES (prod. stepping is A1)
many user here still run Q2SR(EMR A0 ES) for llm, but all EMR A0 need a little help (BIOS tweak)

I ordered 2x Q2SR, a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 mainboard and a 5411N Gold as backup. They should arrive end of next month. What kind of Bios tweaks are needed? Do you have a list or instruction set? Also is here a modded bios necessary?

 

[RolloZ170]

I ordered 2x Q2SR, a Gigabyte MS73-HB1 mainboard and a 5411N Gold as backup. They should arrive end of next month. What kind of Bios tweaks are needed? Do you have a list or instruction set? Also is here a modded bios necessary?

Q2SR(and other EMR A0) POST takes 6/7 minutes but only in single socket config, dual socket does not POST.
you need old 'T' Test BIOS or mod. BIOS. there are two ways, quick and dirty just disable ACM module execution or swap the ACM with an compatible one. PM me is you have all parts at home.

 

[Luke888]

Now the only issue is the RAM temperature. When I run LLMs for more than 2 minutes, the DIMM temperature reaches 89 degrees Celsius. I'm worried about frying my RAM. I want to place fans blowing air directly at my RAM, but there is no place to mount the fans. I wonder if I need to tape 40mm fans to my RAM.

If you are worry about the Ram temperature, you should try the Corsair Vengeance Airflow Memory Cooling Fans. There is a review of it on Phoronix.

 

[pelliff86]

Hi, I am needing some BIOS help!

I have a machine with x2 Q2SR + MS73-HB1 mobo, with BIOS T01 (assume the first test BIOS?). It actaully all boots fine, untill I install the drivers for my nvidia 5090 FE, the screen flickers black and never recovers, and it is impossible to get back into without without using safe mode.

Assuming (hoping!) this is a BIOS issue, could someone point me in the direction of a new modded BIOS?

 

[RolloZ170]

I have a machine with x2 Q2SR + MS73-HB1 mobo, with BIOS T01 (assume the first test BIOS?). It actaully all boots fine, untill I install the drivers for my nvidia 5090 FE, the screen flickers black and never recovers, and it is impossible to get back into without without using safe mode.

not a BIOS issue.ASPEED issue.
open device manager while oob install phase, deactivate ASPEED, move on with driver install. after all enable ASPEED and install ASPEED driver.

Assuming (hoping!) this is a BIOS issue, could someone point me in the direction of a new modded BIOS?

not BIOS. PM you soon.

 

[pelliff86]

not a BIOS issue.ASPEED issue.
open device manager while oob install phase, deactivate ASPEED, move on with driver install. after all enable ASPEED and install ASPEED driver.

not BIOS. PM you soon.

Yes, just reading back the thread now, something I should have done in the first instance.

Thank you for the response, I will give this a shot.

 

[zackiv31]

Is there a way to tell from the CPU markings itself whether a CPU is QS vs. Retail? If not, how does one tell using CPU-Z? Looking to buy some LGA 4677 CPUs, and stumbled upon this Chinese seller selling the 5411N for far below US prices. Most of the others in this price range are marked as QS using similar photos.

Intel Xeon Gold 5411N LGA-4677 1S Server CPU Processor 1.90GHz 24-Core 45MB 165W | eBay

1PCS; 5411N. We are founded in 20 10, is a professional purchasing B2B & B2C tool in electronic components field. During the warranty period, we can help them repair for free. We will reply you in 24 hours and give your a satified answer.

www.ebay.com

 

[RolloZ170]

Is there a way to tell from the CPU markings itself whether a CPU is QS vs. Retail?

QS/ES = Intel Confidential
Retail = Intel Xeon Platinum (or similar, what it is)

If not, how does one tell using CPU-Z

CPU-Z
"0000" = ES
QS "...Platinum 8176 CPU @X.XX Ghz (ES)"
Retail Production = "...Platinum 8176 CPU @X.XX Ghz"

 

[zackiv31]

QS/ES = Intel Confidential
Retail = Intel Xeon Platinum (or similar, what it is)

CPU-Z
"0000" = ES
QS "...Platinum 8176 CPU @X.XX Ghz (ES)"
Retail Production = "...Platinum 8176 CPU @X.XX Ghz"

Thanks, for some reason I thought some QS variants wouldn't say Intel Confidential on them. Not sure where I got that from.

 

[RolloZ170]

Thanks, for some reason I thought some QS variants wouldn't say Intel Confidential on them. Not sure where I got that from.

many seller show retail CPU but selling QS, you get a CPU with Intel Confidential.
intention is to hide the source of the QS/ES, if intel finds out he may get some penalty (3rd party/buyer is fine)

 

[RolloZ170]

Most of the others in this price range are marked as QS using similar photos.

Intel Xeon Gold 5411N LGA-4677 1S Server CPU Processor 1.90GHz 24-Core 45MB 165W | eBay

1PCS; 5411N. We are founded in 20 10, is a professional purchasing B2B & B2C tool in electronic components field. During the warranty period, we can help them repair for free. We will reply you in 24 hours and give your a satified answer.

www.ebay.com

price is low, this model is single socket, low core count low TDP.
can be legit, If in doubt, ask the seller.

 

[ServerWidder]

Does anyone who uses this kind of CPUs for LLM's have tips, which software stack is used to use AMX and other Features effectivly? Anyone using vLLM with Openvino and has tips how to get it running?

 

[rexggg]

Are there any way to use xeon 5 es like q2t7 on supermicro motherboard? like x13sem these mother board. And are there anybody used QYGG this es cpu for Xeon Max 9462? Can it be used?

 

[RolloZ170]

Are there any way to use xeon 5 es like q2t7 on supermicro motherboard? like x13sem

SPR 4th gen can be used with (unofficial Debug) BIOS 1.0 - but if you get a motherboard with BIOS 1.2 or higher downgrade is only possible by replace BIOS chip preprogrammed with BIOS 1.0 (soldering)
Supermicro runs Root of Trust Firmware, after modification re-sign by SM is required (they won't do for you)
there is a vulnerablility but you need deeeeeeeeep insights (NDA protected information)

And are there anybody used QYGG this es cpu for Xeon Max 9462? Can it be used?

X13SEM does not support Xeon Max. the CPU may start, but without HBM (not powered)

 

[rexggg]

SPR 4th gen can be used with (unofficial Debug) BIOS 1.0 - but if you get a motherboard with BIOS 1.2 or higher downgrade is only possible by replace BIOS chip preprogrammed with BIOS 1.0 (soldering)
Supermicro runs Root of Trust Firmware, after modification re-sign by SM is required (they won't do for you)
there is a vulnerablility but you need deeeeeeeeep insights (NDA protected information)

X13SEM does not support Xeon Max. the CPU may start, but without HBM (not powered)

My friend successfully lit up a genuine 9462 with this board.and HMB is working on x13sem I also really want to experience the feeling of HMB, so I'm very curious about whether the
QYGG can be used normally. thanks

 

[RolloZ170]

My friend successfully lit up a genuine 9462 with this board.and HMB is working on x13sem

supermicro lists Xeon Max support on some motherboard but not X13SEM e.g.
ok is it POST and HBM is working: if you have any issues you can't ask supermicro, they will simply say "Xeon Max is not supported on X13SEM"
QYGG is not production stepping and do not work on any supermicro motherboards using latest BIOS.
if you want to run Intel ES CPU, avoid supermicro motherboards.