ES Xeon Discussion

[DHamov]

pls ask before, there are some exceptions in this rule.
i.e. QY36 = stepping C2, like QXxx
if you get a HPE server with very early BIOS you are lucky, but have to stay with old BIOS until the last days.

Is there anything known about the QYK8, in regard to compatibility with Asus w790?
The sellers list only ms33-ar0, but on the screenshot, i can see they probably run it on a MS73.
The seller answers: 'we tested the product, it is only compatible with Server board and w790 is a workstation board.'
But i am not really convinced if he really knows. On the other hand, the ms33-ar0 is single socket but has Intel® C741 Chipset, and not the w790 chipset, can that be relevant for compatibility, or is compatibility only a bios issue?

 

[RolloZ170]

But maybe if you only run one 350W cpu instead of two 270W maybe there is no problem. Strangly enough the MS73 seems to have more power connectors than the Supermicro X13DAI-T which is ok for 2x350W.

it is sometimes just price politics.
the X11SPL-F ( max.165W ) i.e. use the SAME VRM unit than X11SPi-TF ( max. 205W )
the MS73-HBx ( max. 2x 270W ) use the SAME VRM config. than MS33-AR0 ( max. 350W )
but if you run MS73 in a server chassis, the second CPU gets hot Air of the first and gets 15-20C hotter.

 

[RolloZ170]

Is there anything known about the QYK8, in regard to compatibility with Asus w790?
The sellers list only ms33-ar0, but on the screenshot, i can see they probably run it on a MS73.
The seller answers: 'we tested the product, it is only compatible with Server board and w790 is a workstation board.'

i bet if you ask if QYFS works on ASUS W790, he answers the same, most seller do still not know.

On the other hand, the ms33-ar0 is single socket but has Intel® C741 Chipset, and not the w790 chipset, can that be relevant for compatibility, or is compatibility only a bios issue?

SPR-SP D0 ES2 can do DMI4 (PCH<->CPU interface) maybe this is initial required,
and platform configuration bits are important.

 

[RolloZ170]

Is there anything known about the QYK8, in regard to compatibility with Asus w790?

well i have not tested this model but ALL D0 ES2 i have tested are working on ASUS W790 ( QYFQ,QYFP,QY06,QY0C,QYFS... )
btw:
ASRock W790 WS board keeps D0 microcode as well, maybe someone has the chance to check if D0 ES2 runs on it too, would not wondering me.

 

[scouzi]

I'm looking to start with 256 GB RAM with my build. With an 8 slot board, probably 4x64GB to start and keep some spare for expansion. I could also go 8x32GB and get the full 8 channels with no flexibility left for expansion. Is there a significant real-life noticeable difference between 4 channels and 8 channels?

 

[bayleyw]

basically the current price levels of these scalable gen4/5 mobo's is determined by CPU mined crypto's, and xeon ES price points, made extremely clear by @RolloZ170.

Now, all this is linked to the global financial system, and thus the current global reserve currency, and thus, US domestic politics, and the question about the candidate Donald J. Trump.

That is the reason all MS73-HBx motherboards are trading at about $1500 ATM. If i was a betting man (which i am), and i had the money, i'd pay that price today.

what in tarnation is this fake news, you can get any Gigabyte motherboard you want for MSRP right now https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=50001314 100161257 8000&Manufactory=1314 and it is beyond the realm of possibility that Mr. Trump has any connection to the price of bootleg server processors on eBay

I'm looking to start with 256 GB RAM with my build. With an 8 slot board, probably 4x64GB to start and keep some spare for expansion. I could also go 8x32GB and get the full 8 channels with no flexibility left for expansion. Is there a significant real-life noticeable difference between 4 channels and 8 channels?

Depends on the workload, on one end HPCG and its use cases are entirely bandwidth bound, some AI workloads are as well, on the other end dense matrices and ray tracing are not bandwidth limited at all

 

[DHamov]

what in tarnation is this fake news, you can get any Gigabyte motherboard you want for MSRP right now https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=50001314 100161257 8000&Manufactory=1314

Sorry but thats an MD72 not MS73. On Newegg all MS73 are sold out, but after seconds or so, the sold out disappears any you can request a quote, but they are not in stock. And try to find one in Europe, its even more difficult. I dont know the market, good enough to know if this is normal, or different as usual. But i have heard before that people are worried about the Taiwan situation, and decided to buy new systems now before its to late.

I'm looking to start with 256 GB RAM with my build. With an 8 slot board, probably 4x64GB to start and keep some spare for expansion. I could also go 8x32GB and get the full 8 channels with no flexibility left for expansion. Is there a significant real-life noticeable difference between 4 channels and 8 channels?

Ofcourse Everything depends on workload, but i still think its a good question.
Because its really not clear what performance you get before you buy it and test it. I am also not conclusive about 8 Channel board or 4 Channel board. Also because the specs of the cpu's say that memory speed goes down from 4800 to 4400 if 2 dimms per channel are used. I think it would be very usefull, if there were some more systematic benchmarks for different classes of workloads, with different memory populations, to get a rough idea about performance. The same applies to Rx4 or Rx8 memory performance in practice, i could not find any useful numbers.

 

[bayleyw]

Sorry but thats an MD72 not MS73. On Newegg all MS73 are sold out, but after seconds or so, the sold out disappears any you can request a quote, but they are not in stock. And try to find one in Europe, its even more difficult. I dont know the market, good enough to know if this is normal, or different as usual. But i have heard before that people are worried about the Taiwan situation, and decided to buy new systems now before its to late.

Fair enough, the 2S version seems OOS everywhere. Still not believing its a conspiracy though...seems like regular out of stock, I've seen similar stock issues from Asrock rack before where entire products would go out of stock for a few months at a time, then reappear.

 

[scouzi]

Ofcourse Everything depends on workload, but i still think its a good question.
Because its really not clear what performance you get before you buy it and test it. I am also not conclusive about 8 Channel board or 4 Channel board. Also because the specs of the cpu's say that memory speed goes down from 4800 to 4400 if 2 dimms per channel are used. I think it would be very usefull, if there were some more systematic benchmarks for different classes of workloads, with different memory populations, to get a rough idea about performance. The same applies to Rx4 or Rx8 memory performance in practice, i could not find any useful numbers.

In my case, with the MS03-CE0 I (back) ordered, it's an 8 memory slot board. You can't get more than 1 DPC. It's a matter of running with all the slots filled with smaller DIMMS or half filled with larger ones. The cost difference of the 2 configs is not significant.

 

[DHamov]

In my case, with the MS03-CE0 I (back) ordered, it's an 8 memory slot board. You can't get more than 1 DPC. It's a matter of running with all the slots filled with smaller DIMMS or half-filled with larger ones. The cost difference of the 2 configs is not significant.

I understand that that 8 channels are 1DPC, but i misunderstood that you already ordered the 8 channel board. I am mentioned the 2DPC cpu speed decrease because the 'advantage' of the 4-channel 2 DPC board is said to be more upgradeable, but an upgrade from 4 dim to 8 dim will detriment speeds, even its only 10%. What still is not clear to me if besides the difference in cost, if there is ever any technical advantage of the 4-channel workstation board vs the 8-channel server boards if the cpu is 8-channel. Is by design the bandwidth of the 4-channel board not always limited to half the bandwidth of the 8-channel? I mean would running 4 DIMMs in the 4-channel board, give the same/similar performance, as the 4 DIMMs in the 8-channel board? Is there any memory configuration in which the 4-channel board has advantages?

 

[DHamov]

since MS73 are hard to get, is there any chance that the Asus dual socket board Z13PE-D16 could support ES cpu's?
That board actually has 2x350W support.

 

[RolloZ170]

--

Is by design the bandwidth of the 4-channel board not always limited to half the bandwidth of the 8-channel? I mean would running 4 DIMMs in the 4-channel board, give the same/similar performance, as the 4 DIMMs in the 8-channel board? Is there any memory configuration in which the 4-channel board has advantages?

4 channel = cheaper, Xeon W?240xx support only 4 channels, enough/good for lower core counts,
with 4 mem.channels 1/4 of the core count have only single channel mem.bandwidth. with low latency.

 

[RolloZ170]

since MS73 are hard to get, is there any chance that the Asus dual socket board Z13PE-D16 could support ES cpu's?
That board actually has 2x350W support.

not D0 ES2, D0 microcode is missing. E0(and up) should be fine.

 

[DHamov]

not D0 ES2, D0 microcode is missing. E0(and up) should be fine.

Thanks, o I wish i asked this one day before... i just ordered QYFS, but now i see that Q0KG E0 is just a bit more expensive. Maybe i can still change it. But strange that E0 should work, on the ASUS dual socket board, while a while ago you wrote : 'stepping E0 was tested, doesn't POST on W790 Ace...' for the single socket board. And for D0, things are the opposite (works at single socket w790, not on dual socket). Quite a puzzle all of this, at least to me.

 

[Kizune]

Thanks, o I wish i asked this one day before... i just ordered QYFS, but now i see that Q0KG E0 is just a bit more expensive. Maybe i can still change it. But strange that E0 should work, on the ASUS dual socket board, while a while ago you wrote : 'stepping E0 was tested, doesn't POST on W790 Ace...' for the single socket board. And for D0, things are the opposite (works at single socket w790, not on dual socket). Quite a puzzle all of this, at least to me.

ASUS Z13PE-D16 is built on a server chipset C741, the W790 is built on a different chipset - W790 (hence the board name). It is not just a cutdown version of the dual socket board, they have different sets of features (like overcloaking support on W790) and very different BIOS. W790 does not work with production like steppings (meaning when CPU identifies itself as Xeon Platinum 84xx rather than the earlier Genuine Intel 0000%@). And the BIOS on C741 often has support for such earlier steppings removed so they only work with production like late steppings.

 

[RolloZ170]

strange that E0 should work, on the ASUS dual socket board, while a while ago you wrote : 'stepping E0 was tested, doesn't POST on W790 Ace...' for the single socket board. And for D0, things are the opposite (works at single socket w790, not on dual socket). Quite a puzzle all of this, at least to me.

ASUS Z13PE-D16 (C741) supports SPR-SP not SPR-WS
i talk about SPR-SP stepping E0 ES not WS parts.
ASUS W790 (Ace/SAGE) (W790 chipset) supports officialy only SPR-WS, but as a strange exception SPR-SP D0 ES.

we know Intel stopped Xeon support on desktop/HEDT after X99/C612.
but QLRX (7900X / W-2155 ES B0 not prod. stepping) work with C422 and some X299 boards.

 

[RolloZ170]

W790 does not work with production like steppings (meaning when CPU identifies itself as Xeon Platinum 84xx rather than the earlier Genuine Intel 0000%@)

not fully correct. nothing insinde looks at brand strings, there are working parts with "0000%@"
but they are SPR-WS ES steppings E0 and up.

 

[RolloZ170]

since MS73 are hard to get, is there any chance that the Asus dual socket board Z13PE-D16 could support ES cpu's?

checked some other BIOS but 0301 is first release of Z13PE-D16 and already supports Emerald Rapids.

Z13PP-D32 supports D0 ES(806f3) in first BIOS 0401
but later D0 ES(806f3) MCU is removed and added MCU for SPR-HBM and EMR-SP(Emerald Rapids)

this can not caused by limited space in BIOS, Gigabyte managed to hold all MCUs in they're C741 BIOS.

 

[DHamov]

checked some other BIOS but 0301 is first release of Z13PE-D16 and already supports Emerald Rapids.

Z13PP-D32 supports D0 ES(806f3) in first BIOS 0401
but later D0 ES(806f3) MCU is removed and added MCU for SPR-HBM and EMR-SP(Emerald Rapids)

Thanks for checking the Asus boards with old bios. Even if it works The z13PP-D32 looks very scary to me and i need pcie and sort of normal shape to find a case with high reasonable silent coolers.

ASUS Z13PE-D16 (C741) supports SPR-SP not SPR-WS
i talk about SPR-SP stepping E0 ES not WS parts.
ASUS W790 (Ace/SAGE) (W790 chipset) supports officialy only SPR-WS, but as a strange exception SPR-SP D0 ES.

Interesting so if i understood it correctly ASUS W790 would also not support any official normal SPR-WS -> SPR-SP cpu's. (EDIT my mistake)

About Q0KG E0, i read in this forum that its E0. But in the screen shot of seller...

...the stepping part seems blank. How to recognize what are E0 steppings? Do they start Q0.., or is it the 4?

The sellers mentions compatible with GIGABYTE. But are for Q0KG (or other E0 SPR-SP) , are besides Asus and GIGABYTE other dual socket or C741 boards from brands like Supermicro, Asrock known to be working or not working?
The ASRock SP2C741D16X-2T would be quite amazing 7 pcie slots on dual socket wow.

 

[RolloZ170]

About Q0KG E0, i read in this forum that its E0. But in the screen shot of seller...

...the stepping part seems blank. How to recognize what are E0 steppings? Do they start Q0.., or is it the 4?

correct, cpuid 806F4 is stepping E0