ES Xeon Discussion

[RolloZ170]

some can think low dual socket scores is result of ES2 issue but...
shame i do not know the exact config. of this run, but with QS
2x 8490H QS

QYFS 56C on ASUS W790 SAGE SE(single socket)

 

[sam55todd]

not realy. you have 8x dual channel - or 2x 8 channel in best case.
its hard to get a single socket board to have 8 channel interleaving, and will be impossible on dual socket boards.

Yes, sorry, that's what I generally meant saying x16 channel (2x8ch).. Although another interpretation of x16 channel DDR5 RDIMM does really have much much higher GB/s (e.g. as per EMR line below)..
I can see on internet from various AIDA64 memory bandwidth benchmarks this RDIMM DDR5 data is available:
CPU : Read/Write GB/s
2xQ2SP : 28K/14K EMR (ES Emerald rapids, x16ch)
2xQYFP : 517/318 SPR (ES/1500Mhz Quad?)
1x8461V: 247/187 SPR (mine)
1x W9 : 304/227 SPR (W790)
2x8380 : 342/260 (Ice lake)
Suggesting better bandwidth towards x2 scaling (although not really linear) on 2xCPU systems (with single RDIMM per channel, and some degradation if 2xRDIMMs per channel used but 1+ dimm per channel also means lower frequency, e.g. from 4800 to 4400)
This data in practice leads to a conclusion of 32/20 GB/s (Read/Write) per channel (vs theoretical nearly 64GB/s per module DDR5 4800) and suggests nearly x2 higher memory bandwidth on dual-socket setups (assuming all x8 channels are populated with x1 RDIMM) making dual-cpu x16 channel? (leaving aside core counts/effective bandwidth distributions or HBM systems with Xeon Max)..


P.S. couldn't quickly find any AIDA64 memory benchmark results with proper dual-socket production SPR Platinum installed and all RDIMMS populated.

 

[DHamov]

i see 48 cores. single socket or dual with only one CPU.

There in his last picture he has 96 cores. so the previous picture with 48 cores, and the benchmarks could be with one cpu active, or with 2 cpu, but on each one only half the cores active! But i was probably just to paranoid. I wrote with him, and he seems an honest seller. But it all does not matter so much any more. The many screenshots of you and others, made it very clear that the low scores were not inherent cpu issue but just setup or memory issue. Thanks for clearing that up.

But now, since low performance can be related to memory, i have some questions about memory.
You write that these Xeons have 4 dual channels memory controllers.
Does that mean i need to buy a minimum 8 RDIMMS to avoid any significant performance penalties?
Or would 4 RDIMMS with dual rank also be OK?
My preference would be 2 RDIMMS , such that i can expand later, but based on what i saw fear this would initially limit performance.
Also there are many 2Rx4 RDIMMS, since the width is only half compared to 2Rx8, would that give signifficant performance penalties?
With performance penalty, i mean roughly differences larger than say 20% from optimal speed assuming the workload is large but fits in memory. I am sort of on a budget, and i want to avoid to buy a silly memory setup.

 

[DHamov]

I still see 96 cores, and 192 logical processors.
So that made me think he could be on a dual socket board.
In the picture before that he has 48 cores and 96 logical processors.
But ok it does not matter.

this is not same than 8 RDIMM
[/QUOTE]
But does one get approximatly 50% performance difference with 4 RDIMMS compared to 8 RDIMMS or is it not so easy to say or estimate?

 

[Civiloid]

Am I just unlucky, or SPR-WS-112 ES and QS rare and way more expensive? (I have a hobby project for which I'll need 6 working x16 slots and Intel CPU and it seems that I'm kinda stuck with SPR-WS-112 as the only option, but given listings I've seen so far it makes little sense to go for QS and I haven't seen any ES of SPR-WS, at all)

 

[RolloZ170]

Am I just unlucky, or SPR-WS-112 ES and QS rare and way more expensive?

correct, no SPR-WS 112L ES supported by actual motherboards. QS way to expensive.
i have QXS0 C1 and QXMV, SPR-WS 64L

QXHU is 112L doesn't work anywhere

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[sam55todd]

... I have a hobby project for which I'll need 6 working x16 slots and Intel CPU and it seems that I'm kinda ...

Since your preference is W CPU + W790 (consequently single-socket only) - those depending on model do support up to 112 PCIe lanes (7 slots of x16) leaving you with very limited number of MB options (e.g. Asus Pro WS W790E-SAGE). I haven't seen Tyan/Supermicro/Gigabyte in W790 customer-ATX form factor MBs having that many PCIe slots (all alternatives are in C741 chipset space but with dual-socket non-W cpus it's gets even easier, although mostly by sacrificing ATX formfactor in some instances).
Getting locally large-enough suitable case from LianLi(V3000)/Phanteks(Enthoo Primo)/ThermalTake(Core x71) might be another hurdle.
But as was mentioned multiple times: building serious system around ES (leaving aside question on QS) is a gamble with mostly disappointing outcomes.

 

[mtg]

QXHU is 112L doesn't work anywhere

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Has anyone tried asking super micro for ES bioses? I am guessing they would never? I have a QXHU that I was vainly hoping would function

 

[RolloZ170]

Has anyone tried asking super micro for ES bioses?

sure.

I am guessing they would never?

correct, there is only one way: you have to provide the NDA contract with intel.

 

[RolloZ170]

I have a QXHU that I was vainly hoping would function

you need Gigabyte or ASUS W790 board and a BIOS specialist. with added microcode mine stuck on code Cd (seccore)

 

[Civiloid]

those depending on model do support up to 112 PCIe lanes

Yeah, I already got ASUS W790 Sage, and in a process of getting W5-34xx CPU. Just wanted to make sure that I'm not missing something (e.x. maybe it is more seasonal with them and if I'll wait a month there will be more QSes available or something like that).

Getting locally large-enough suitable case from LianLi(V3000)/Phanteks(Enthoo Primo)/ThermalTake(Core x71) might be another hurdle.

I was thinking about Fractal Define 7 XL or Fractal Torrent, as they have official support for EEB sized motherboards and not as huge/expensive as V3000.

is a gamble with mostly disappointing outcomes.

That what gets me a bit surprised - that so far nobody tried to create a spreadsheet with all the knowledge around at least modern ESs...

 

[bayleyw]

That what gets me a bit surprised - that so far nobody tried to create a spreadsheet with all the knowledge around at least modern ESs...

Simple, QYxx boots on Gigabyte, Q0xx boots on everything, QXxx and older boot on nothing. QYxx additionally boots on Asus W790 due to a lucky fluke.

 

[RolloZ170]

Simple, QYxx boots on Gigabyte, Q0xx boots on everything, QXxx and older boot on nothing. QYxx additionally boots on Asus W790 due to a lucky fluke.

pls ask before, there are some exceptions in this rule.
i.e. QY36 = stepping C2, like QXxx
if you get a HPE server with very early BIOS you are lucky, but have to stay with old BIOS until the last days.

 

[scouzi]

Simple, QYxx boots on Gigabyte, Q0xx boots on everything, QXxx and older boot on nothing. QYxx additionally boots on Asus W790 due to a lucky fluke.

It seems that Gigabyte considers D0 as 'production' if you read their BIOS release notes. Some of their BIOS screenshots inside the manuals are showing D0 (from 2022 pre-release era). I'm sticking with Gigabyte even though I'm not too happy about their response on cracked RTX GPU cards. Also, Gigabyte LGA 4677 MBs seem to be in short supply at a reasonable price.

 

[scouzi]

View attachment 33795
There in his last picture he has 96 cores. so the previous picture with 48 cores, and the benchmarks could be with one cpu active, or with 2 cpu, but on each one only half the cores active! But i was probably just to paranoid. I wrote with him, and he seems an honest seller. But it all does not matter so much any more. The many screenshots of you and others, made it very clear that the low scores were not inherent cpu issue but just setup or memory issue. Thanks for clearing that up.

But now, since low performance can be related to memory, i have some questions about memory.
You write that these Xeons have 4 dual channels memory controllers.
Does that mean i need to buy a minimum 8 RDIMMS to avoid any significant performance penalties?
Or would 4 RDIMMS with dual rank also be OK?
My preference would be 2 RDIMMS , such that i can expand later, but based on what i saw fear this would initially limit performance.
Also there are many 2Rx4 RDIMMS, since the width is only half compared to 2Rx8, would that give signifficant performance penalties?
With performance penalty, i mean roughly differences larger than say 20% from optimal speed assuming the workload is large but fits in memory. I am sort of on a budget, and i want to avoid to buy a silly memory setup.

I noticed that a lot of screenshots from different China based sellers are identical. They all share the same screenshots. These sellers are somewhat relatated somehow.

 

[Civiloid]

And how is memory compatibility of D0 compared to later Ex or even retail CPUs?

 

[sam55todd]

..I was thinking about Fractal Define 7 XL or Fractal Torrent, as they have official support for EEB sized motherboards and not as huge/expensive as V3000...

The reason I've specified larger cases was because majority of use-cases requiring 7 slots of x16 PCIe (e.g. GPU rendering or ML compute workstation) would have higher power requirements (350Wx7=2.5KW + CPU and other subsystems), therefore case needs space for convenient mount of two power-supply units. Anyhow this non-ES stuff is offtopic here, discussed on other threads I'm not a big fan of.

 

[RolloZ170]

It seems that Gigabyte considers D0 as 'production' if you read their BIOS release notes. Some of their BIOS screenshots inside the manuals are showing D0 (from 2022 pre-release era)

D0 microcode is marked as PRD state.
also it unclear why ASUS and ASRock keep this MCU in they're W790 boards.

 

[RolloZ170]

And how is memory compatibility of D0 compared to later Ex or even retail CPUs?

depends on the model. on ASUS W790 Ace & SAGE QYFP,QYFQ,QYFS.... support overclocking
and works with Kingston Renegade Pro DDR5-6000
...memory copatibility is more BIOS thing, should fine if you can run latest BIOS.

 

[RolloZ170]

I noticed that a lot of screenshots from different China based sellers are identical. They all share the same screenshots. These sellers are somewhat relatated somehow.

and the chn copy/steal images from others as well, nobody cares.