ES Xeon Discussion

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sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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I was one of those punters taking a risk about 1-2 months ago with Supermicro X13 (BIOS ver 1.1) and ES/QS LGA 4677 Sapphire Rapids Xeon QYFQ seeing it for cheap on ebay while waiting for first wave of low-end Prod version upgrades being disposed by datacenters.

Well, as this thread already mentions - this MB/CPU combo doesn't work, MB/BIOS doesn't recognize CPU, system doesn't boot (apart from BMC part) and behaving like CPU is not even installed, turns on for around 30 seconds, then powers off automatically, no output from system (except standard BMC UI), multiple restarts after each 20 seconds do heat up CPU a bit (suggesting it's not CPU or socket fault) but couldn't progress any further.

Was surprised to see significantly fewer PCIe lanes implemented than CPU can support, e.g. X13DAI has only 64 PCIe lanes wired instead of expected 80 (so 20% less) on CPU1 and 48 PCIe lanes on CPU2 (-40%), IMV they're taking a step backwards, although Gigabyte MS73 does the same but seems like AsRock SP2C741D16X has better implementation with more hardware limit coverage implemented (7 PCIe slots + M.2 + 2x MCIO + 3x OCuLink but last one goes via PCH). Not accounting for Tyan since their Dual-socket LGA4677 range doesn't have customer-level form-factors yet (but Single-CPU does have a better options almost like their SuperMicro X13SEI counterpart - which is practically implementing all PCIe lanes, Tyan even has some PCH PCe lanes exposed to customer devices via M.2 PCH-bound slots), of course not mentioning Advantech / DFI and other manufacturers because of broad market non-availability.

Therefore since even smartest community people don't have minimum effort/risk solution - for now will have to park X13 along with RAM and case into storage for another 3 months and list CPU on ebay at half price to stay competitive (there are plenty ES's already listed there), Also as IT manager in mid-size corp - from now on trying to avoid Supermicro from our shopping list because of all these added restrictions over recent generations, seems to be a bit dodgy imposing these artificial limits (I'm not talking about official compatibility support obviously).
 

brickmover

New Member
May 5, 2023
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no changes other than this:
disable 18 cores.(bitmap FFFFF)
windows power plan balanced, run CPU-Z stress cpu to put load.
edit/update:
i use X12SPM with BIOS 1.0, you can not expect the same BIOS default settings.
View attachment 28808
if you run linux maybe you have to set to "BIOS Controls EPB" and "Maximum Performance"

Maybe I need to get the 1.0 BIOS..
 

bayleyw

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
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Was surprised to see significantly fewer PCIe lanes implemented than CPU can support, e.g. X13DAI has only 64 PCIe lanes wired instead of expected 80 (so 20% less) on CPU1 and 48 PCIe lanes on CPU2 (-40%), IMV they're taking a step backwards, although Gigabyte MS73 does the same but seems like AsRock SP2C741D16X has better implementation with more hardware limit coverage implemented (7 PCIe slots + M.2 + 2x MCIO + 3x OCuLink but last one goes via PCH). Not accounting for Tyan since their Dual-socket LGA4677 range doesn't have customer-level form-factors yet (but Single-CPU does have a better options almost like their SuperMicro X13SEI counterpart - which is practically implementing all PCIe lanes, Tyan even has some PCH PCe lanes exposed to customer devices via M.2 PCH-bound slots), of course not mentioning Advantech / DFI and other manufacturers because of broad market non-availability.

Therefore since even smartest community people don't have minimum effort/risk solution - for now will have to park X13 along with RAM and case into storage for another 3 months and list CPU on ebay at half price to stay competitive (there are plenty ES's already listed there), Also as IT manager in mid-size corp - from now on trying to avoid Supermicro from our shopping list because of all these added restrictions over recent generations, seems to be a bit dodgy imposing these artificial limits (I'm not talking about official compatibility support obviously).
It's not an artificial limitation. X13DAI is standard EATX and with the increased size of the socket and routing requirements of PCI-e 4.0 they can only fit a limited number of lanes. SP2C741D16X is an enormous EEB motherboard hence its increased connectivity, but EEB is a miserable form factor to work with - the mounting holes don't match any of the (E)ATX standards so outside of a few cases you're stuck drilling your own holes.
 

sam55todd

Active Member
May 11, 2023
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I've checked BMC side of configuration on my SuperMicro X13 and it feels like I'm out of luck to get compatible one (presumably having right microcode to support ES - QYFQ) because older version of BIOS is not listed (right side of evidence attached, section {B}) in "resilience actions" (not available for recovery, plus even if it would - there are extra licensing requirements aka "contact vendor" as was mentioned over the PM by local guru) there's only BMC image having version 1.0 (therefore I was mistaken when trying to remember it and there was a flashback of something having 1.0 in reserve), even though previous version of BIOS (1.0) is listed on "Inventory" tab (section {A}).

As a result - no any sort of boot is possible atm for LGA4677 Xeon ES : QYFQ with my DualSocket X13 (no any activity on console, section {D} of image, and post code is always ff as per section {C}), seems like will have to wait until a proper cheap prod versions hits secondary market via ebay (probably in 2-3 months). Won't do anything hardcore (e.g. soldering out BIOS chip, etc.) because of warranty concerns (MB is quite expensive after all).
 

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sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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It's not an artificial limitation. X13DAI is standard EATX and with the increased size of the socket and routing requirements of PCI-e 4.0 they can only fit a limited number of lanes. SP2C741D16X is an enormous EEB motherboard hence its increased connectivity, but EEB is a miserable form factor to work with - the mounting holes don't match any of the (E)ATX standards so outside of a few cases you're stuck drilling your own holes.
sorry, probably off-topic, will try to cut this short and won't expand to any other replies.

I wasn't necessarily talking about PCIe slots (even though X13DAI could have all implemented as X16 instead of having one X8).
It would be great to see at least an effort of delivering these lines via other alternatives (.e.g. MCIO/OCuLink/SFF-86xx or even having an extra M.2, not necessarily M-keyed but E-key for say WiFi or even B-keyed for other devices {e.g. LTE modem} would do too since it's workstation MB and there is plenty of room available on MB surface). Some time ago SM was actively sending a commitment message of implementing all functionality, now this is over.

I was eyeing X12DPG (before deciding to go with Sapphire Rapids in the end, partially because of DDR5 although it doesn't bring much of improvement but at least can be reused on future generations of platforms too, while it's dead-end for RDIMM DDR4, so decided not to waste money on it) and found several affordable cases available on ebay to fit this larger form-factor without much of an effort (e.g. ThermalTake, Phanteks, Antec, LianLi,.., I think some rare models of CoolerMaster, Corsair, PC Specialist, InWin, Abkoncore do have sufficient space too but I had suitable options with first four therefore didn't go into more measurements with latter).
As for drilling case holes - again, with lots of SuperMicro it was always ongoing issue, I tend to have a bunch of 6.5mm hex standoffs/pillars and M3 (prefer metric) relevant tap drill bit ready for almost every of recent builds, shouldn't be a case for whoever does this as occupation or generic consumers of course but for a higher-end system enthusiast having frequent upgrades it's probably inevitable.
 
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sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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After feels like weeks-long tests and consultations with RolloZ170 over PM about getting at least some POST Codes other than "ff" even if Sapphire Rapids QYFQ CPU is ES/QS but still compatible with LGA4677 Socket standard (but might not be supported by BIOS due to lack of stepping microcode) - have decided to hit "initiate return" on e-bay since all evidence is pointing to 99% defective CPU likelihood (motherboard is brand-new from Supermicro in nicely handled package by DHL with all other systems {BMC} functioning properly including front panel leds, Fan subsystem, etc.).
If I could get anything else than always "ff" even after hitting "power on" button and always getting only 25 seconds CPU fan rotation cycle before system getting back to "off" state (with operational BMC - that's how I was connecting to it after all) - that would be at least some progress but may be next time..
 

sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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I've noticed (still on a lookout since my ES attempt is considered to have failed or DOA) Prod Gold Xeons have already hit the market on ebay (for instance item 195780388631 , more than 10 available), for now pricing is pretty close as per Intel' recommendations.
In accordance to rumors the way Intel experiences Sapphire Rapids platform orders cancelled or forecasted to be reduced (on another hand GCP has just announced Sapphire Rapids compute availability) because of some slowdown in IT - we might start to see these coming at much more affordable price in just a month or two.
 
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RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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supermicro removed microcode for this D0, even it is a Production microcode.
have asked and they replied:
"Intel removes support for these from the microcode, Supermicro doesn't do any effort to put them back in, unlike brands like Gigabyte.
ES CPUs are not officially supported, there is nothing we can do about this. "

if you want to use ice-lake or sapphire rapids ES, avoid supermicro motherboards.
(QS are ok of course)
 
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dsp8913

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Jan 22, 2018
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Good to know, thanks Rollo!

Also, can you verify that ES support was removed from the AsRock Rack SPC621D8 starting with BIOS 1.30? The beta BIOS 1.23 works with ES (non-QS) CPUs, but 1.30 and 1.40 don't boot with them.
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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Also, can you verify that ES support was removed from the AsRock Rack SPC621D8 starting with BIOS 1.30? The beta BIOS 1.23 works with ES (non-QS) CPUs, but 1.30 and 1.40 don't boot with them.
AsRock Rack SPC621D8
YES, looks to me Intel ME blocks ES, all microcodes are still there
P1621D81.20 - CSE SPS: 04.04.04.053 ES
P1621D81.23 - CSE SPS: 04.04.04.053 ES
P1621D81.30 - CSE SPS: 04.04.04.202 no ES
P1621D81.40 - CSE SPS: 04.04.04.202 no ES

edit:
stepping D0 ES like QWAS,QWAQ,QWAT,QWAP are still working
 
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Cjsm

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Dec 16, 2020
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Is there anyone who have hp z8/z6 g4 firmware lower than 2.21 version?
HP deleted this file from their server
I desperately looking for this file :/
 

Cjsm

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Dec 16, 2020
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how lower ? will be 2.19 low enough i.e. ? may i ask for what reason do you need ?
oh thank you so much for your help I’m desperately looking for this file for 3days
I‘m looking for this file because I want to upgrade my cpu to ES XEON 8160 24C/48T from Xeon Silver 4108 8C/16T
So I’m looking for bios file with es cpu micro code
thank you so much for your help
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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I’m considering to purchase xeon P-8124 or xeon 8124m
Will these cpus work on hp z6 g4?
NO !
the P-8124 is Skylake B1, microcode not included.
and both have TDP=240W / TDC=255A and need VRM controller with ICC_MAX = 255A
other mboard can be modded but the Z6 G4 VRM is too weak.
 

Cjsm

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Dec 16, 2020
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NO !
the P-8124 is Skylake B1, microcode not included.
and both have TDP=240W / TDC=255A and need VRM controller with ICC_MAX = 255A
other mboard can be modded but the Z6 G4 VRM is too weak.
Bro I finally made it!!!
I've been looking for this file for 4 days all day long
I have big news to HP Z6/Z8 G4 workstation owners
I found HP Z6/Z8 G4 workstation's super early version bios file with Engineering Sample microcode.
If is there anyone want this file just PM me I'll send this file for free
I won't upload this publically because it might be illegal to upload hp bios in public
(Please let me know if it isn't lol)
Now I have a question can I use ES processor such as QL1K?
Since this file has 50652h microcodedeleted_bios.PNG
 

tesla100

Active Member
Jun 15, 2016
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Bro I finally made it!!!
I've been looking for this file for 4 days all day long
I have big news to HP Z6/Z8 G4 workstation owners
I found HP Z6/Z8 G4 workstation's super early version bios file with Engineering Sample microcode.
If is there anyone want this file just PM me I'll send this file for free
I won't upload this publically because it might be illegal to upload hp bios in public
(Please let me know if it isn't lol)
Now I have a question can I use ES processor such as QL1K?
Since this file has 50652h microcodeView attachment 29379
Hi,

Have you managed to downgrade to that old bios? I thought it was not possible to downgrade from a 2.X bios to 1.X.

Cheers