Easier to buy or build NAS server

[thecoffeeguy]

I just finished building out a new ESXi server with the feedback of a lot of folks here. It has been running great so far. (thanks for all the help to members here.)

Expanding on my home lab, the next piece I want is a NAS server.
The purpose would be to serve as shared storage between my two ESXi servers and also, looking at setting up a Plex server.

That said, just looking for honest feedback from members here on the recommendations between building out a NAS server or picking up something like a Dell R510. Advantages and disadvantages to both. The thought of buying something like a R510 (or similar) is very appealing because I can quickly get it up and running.

That said, was just looking for items to think about, consider etc. (also quiet is my biggest item right now...since it will be in my office where i work from, cant have it sound like a wind tunnel while on the phone.) Power not a issue as I just installed solar.

On a side note, i did pick up a 20U rack for my home office so i do have room to grow.

Many thanks,.

Cheers

 

[Terry Kennedy]

That said, just looking for honest feedback from members here on the recommendations between building out a NAS server or picking up something like a Dell R510. Advantages and disadvantages to both. The thought of buying something like a R510 (or similar) is very appealing because I can quickly get it up and running.

You've listed 2 of the 3 choices. From most to least work:

• Build your own server from scratch out of components
• Use a packaged system like the R510 with your own software
• Purchase a complete "ready to run" NAS (Synology, iXsystems, etc)

There are some great deals out there on packaged systems. If you get one with the CPU(s) and memory you want, it should all be tested and ready to go. Disadvantages are limited configurations and (depending on manufacturer) limited access to updates and patches. Dell is pretty good about this (compare with HP, for example). The Rx10 systems are pretty much at end-of-support as they've all aged out of extended warranty status. So don't expect to see any fixes for new issues. The main one (at present) is the iDRAC remote management not working well with modern web browsers out-of-the-box. If you need something not included with the system you purchase, that can add to the expense. A set of rack rails for a Dell can run $50-$100 just for the rails, if they aren't included. Dell and other OEM controllers have special knowledge of the drive backplanes in the system - if you flash to generic firmware, you will probably lose function on the drive identify/fault LEDs. Systems with more than 8 drive bays usually have SAS expanders - if you plan on using SATA drives, be aware that there are some issues with SATA drives behind SAS expanders.

Building your own server from scratch gives you a much wider range of components. But you run the risk of putting something together that may not work properly the first time you turn it on. There have been a number of posts here from folks who ran into "nothing happens" when they turn the power on. Most of them eventually got their systems working, but they did spend some extra time to get to that point. This can happen with both used and new components. A common issue is a board with an older BIOS that doesn't recognize a newer CPU. Easy to fix, if you have an older CPU (or can borrow one).

A ready-to-run system will probably be the most expensive, even if it is a BYOD (Bring Your Own Drives) unit. Higher-end options like 10GbE will be lots more expensive than "roll your own" solutions.

 

[pricklypunter]

Roll your own, the experience gained is priceless. Apart from that, your intimate working knowledge of the system thereafter, gives you an immediate advantage when troubleshooting any problems. It won't necessarily be less expensive. A lot of folks seem to think that building it yourself will cost less money, and while sometimes that's true, if your luck is good, often it's not, especially if you are serious about the build reliability. The result will be a whole lot less restrictive on hardware, be much more expandable and a whole lot more fun in the process. Sounds good right?

 

[Ray]

The best part is the build. Once I turn it on and I know it works there is a bit of a letdown knowing that it will be X amount of time before I can tinker again.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

The best part is the build. Once I turn it on and I know it works there is a bit of a letdown knowing that it will be X amount of time before I can tinker again.

Thst is true for me, too. I enjoy the design and build process, along with documenting it for others to follow (like my RAIDzilla 2.5).

But sometimes we lose sight of the fact that other users just want to get work done, and don't have the time / money / inclination to do a complete from-scratch build.

 

[Ray]

It is money for me.....I don't have enough to be buying a box off the shelf most of the time.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

It is money for me.....I don't have enough to be buying a box off the shelf most of the time.

That's why I mentioned the great deals that can be found on eBay for complete hardware packages - either major brand systems like Dell, or systems built from quality components like Supermicro. Companies that don't want to keep those systems past the end of warranty often let them go for a very low price*. And there's the benefit of having the whole thing put together and tested.

Of course, you can build something even less expensive with a motherboard screwed to a piece of wood and parts hanging out - that's what a lot of Bitcoin mining rigs look like. But I think a lot of the folks here are interested in having a good-looking system as well as one that performs well.

* I got a pair of Powervault NX3100's w/ 12 * 2TB SAS drives out of a dumpster, but that's pretty uncommon.

 

[cheezehead]

Any Xeon 5500/5600-based gear from Dell/HP can be picked up for a song these days. The nice part is they are generally complete and easy to setup. On the downside in a year or two if you want to move to E5 gear or upgrading the backplane your generally stuck in buying a whole new setup. Supermicro chassis' on the other hand are fully modular....don't like the backplane, drop a different one in, don't like the back window, drop a different one in, ect.

The other thing to look into is how many and what form factor drives do I want to run. 2.5" drive-based systems sometimes can be significantly cheaper than 3.5"-based systems due to enterprises buying a lot of them and home lab users historically wanting 3.5"-based systems (though 4TB SFF drives are now available).

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Hey everyone. I appreciate all the feedback here.

Just so happens, a friend of mine gave me a supermicro board today with some memory in it.
The exact board:
SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCL-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C202 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard-Newegg.com

Looks to be decent. Heck, it has a decent CPU and 32gb of memory. Going this route, just need a case and maybe something to expand the number of disks I can shove into it.

Something to work with? Look elsewhere?

Much appreciated!

 

[Netwerkz101]

Hey everyone. I appreciate all the feedback here.

Just so happens, a friend of mine gave me a supermicro board today with some memory in it.
The exact board:
SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCL-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C202 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard-Newegg.com

Looks to be decent. Heck, it has a decent CPU and 32gb of memory. Going this route, just need a case and maybe something to expand the number of disks I can shove into it.

Something to work with? Look elsewhere?

Much appreciated!

Absolutely no reason not to make use of it.
For the price of FREE ..the only question is what NAS/OS will you be running.

If the 6 x SATA II ports or the 2 x 1Gb NICs become a bottleneck,
you have 2 PCIe x8 for HBA (or even NVMe flash device) and dual port 10Gb+ NICs.

 

[pricklypunter]

Hey everyone. I appreciate all the feedback here.

Just so happens, a friend of mine gave me a supermicro board today with some memory in it.
The exact board:
SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCL-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C202 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard-Newegg.com

Looks to be decent. Heck, it has a decent CPU and 32gb of memory. Going this route, just need a case and maybe something to expand the number of disks I can shove into it.

Something to work with? Look elsewhere?

Much appreciated!

The x8/ x9 boards have been a backbone of SM storage solutions for years, well tried and tested and really good boards in terms of reliability. I would say you're a jammy sod getting one for free You didn't mention which CPU it has fitted, but I would recommend an E3-1230/ 40/ 75 if you trip over one, which are real little workhorses, or a good low power (45W) choice would be the E3-1260L Good luck with the build

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Awesome...good to know. I will see if i can grab the CPU specs tonight when i have some time to take a look.

In the meantime, any server chassis that you recommend that would pair nicely with this? Also, PSU?

Finally, what times of drives should I look at for this. I would love to buy a 12 bay (expand as needed for NIC's and HBA).

Getting pretty fun and exciting again!

Cheers friends!

 

[pricklypunter]

There are lots of chassis available, in just about as many formats. Rack mount from 1U to 4U, Tower, Mid Tower etc. Given that you said you picked up a small rack, I'll assume that's the direction you are looking at. SM Chassis are solid, well built and fairly cheap second hand and modular, they are also easy to get parts for secondhand from the 'bay. For the real budget conscious, I like Chenbro stuff, it's not your SM or Dell build quality, but it's very usable. I have a build thread somewhere on here using a 2U Chenbro rack chassis, have a look for it if you haven't seen it yet for some idea. The larger chassis, 3U/ 4U might be a better bet if you have the space for them, as they are perhaps a little easier to cool with larger, slower running, therefore quieter fans. It also gives you an opportunity to look at 16 bay units over 12, which might be an option for you further down the road. Although, if you are careful in what you choose, you can achieve a pretty quiet 2U build too. Aesthetics do play a part too, at least for me here at home, but that's a personal taste best left to the wife, my primary interest is in form and function

In terms of drive population, it really comes down to budget and how many moons there are in the sky. I personally prefer HGST Ultrastar's, which are a solid enterprise choice, but there are really good deals to be had on the other offerings too. Lot's of folks like the WD Red NAS disks for example and these can often be found cheaper. If you are only ever going to use the NAS for storage, then NAS rated disks are probably the way to go, they are often less noisy, spin a little slower and are better on power consumption, but if you are going to be doing other things with this server as well as storage, like running some VM's etc, then you'll want something more geared towards performance. There is always good deals floating about on SSD's too, but if you go that route, stick with Intel/ Toshiba/ HGST enterprise offerings. They cost more for sure, but you really do get what you pay for. As for SAS/ SATA, again it'll come down to what disks and deal you trip over, at decent money, but don't mix them, even if the controller can handle it. I'm a fan of good used datacenter pulls, they often have long uptime on them, but little actual use and the bad ones are usually already weeded out, long before you see them. They also come in at decent money and reasonable capacities. You can sometimes find them with some warranty left on them too if that's a concern

I like Intel based nic's, can't go wrong with the i2/ i3 based quad port cards, but make sure it's a genuine one you get, the cheap ones from China can be flaky. In terms of HBA's, LSI based cards are my go to. I look for Dell, Fujitsu/ IBM and Lenovo branded cards which usually go for much less money

 

[thecoffeeguy]

There are lots of chassis available, in just about as many formats. Rack mount from 1U to 4U, Tower, Mid Tower etc. Given that you said you picked up a small rack, I'll assume that's the direction you are looking at. SM Chassis are solid, well built and fairly cheap second hand and modular, they are also easy to get parts for secondhand from the 'bay. For the real budget conscious, I like Chenbro stuff, it's not your SM or Dell build quality, but it's very usable. I have a build thread somewhere on here using a 2U Chenbro rack chassis, have a look for it if you haven't seen it yet for some idea. The larger chassis, 3U/ 4U might be a better bet if you have the space for them, as they are perhaps a little easier to cool with larger, slower running, therefore quieter fans. It also gives you an opportunity to look at 16 bay units over 12, which might be an option for you further down the road. Although, if you are careful in what you choose, you can achieve a pretty quiet 2U build too. Aesthetics do play a part too, at least for me here at home, but that's a personal taste best left to the wife, my primary interest is in form and function

In terms of drive population, it really comes down to budget and how many moons there are in the sky. I personally prefer HGST Ultrastar's, which are a solid enterprise choice, but there are really good deals to be had on the other offerings too. Lot's of folks like the WD Red NAS disks for example and these can often be found cheaper. If you are only ever going to use the NAS for storage, then NAS rated disks are probably the way to go, they are often less noisy, spin a little slower and are better on power consumption, but if you are going to be doing other things with this server as well as storage, like running some VM's etc, then you'll want something more geared towards performance. There is always good deals floating about on SSD's too, but if you go that route, stick with Intel/ Toshiba/ HGST enterprise offerings. They cost more for sure, but you really do get what you pay for. As for SAS/ SATA, again it'll come down to what disks and deal you trip over, at decent money, but don't mix them, even if the controller can handle it. I'm a fan of good used datacenter pulls, they often have long uptime on them, but little actual use and the bad ones are usually already weeded out, long before you see them. They also come in at decent money and reasonable capacities. You can sometimes find them with some warranty left on them too if that's a concern

I like Intel based nic's, can't go wrong with the i2/ i3 based quad port cards, but make sure it's a genuine one you get, the cheap ones from China can be flaky. In terms of HBA's, LSI based cards are my go to. I look for Dell, Fujitsu/ IBM and Lenovo branded cards which usually go for much less money

Thanks for the post.
I think i will look to the 3U or 4U area. You are right. Bought a rack with the idea of putting a few servers into it. Lot easier.I like the idea of lots of space and the ability to cool it easier.
Poking around right now. Ideally, would like to get one of those cases with all drives on the front, hot-swappable if you will. I have seen a few HP ones and am looking right now for supermicro chassis.

First i'll find a case, then I will pick my PSU and drives. he did give me a handful of drives (Green 4TB ones, 7200). Not sure what i will do with them, but i will figure out.

Much appreciated!
cheers!

 

[ttabbal]

Just keep an eye on the deals forum here and on ebay. I picked up a supermicro chassis locally for a decent price, even had an older motherboard, CPU, RAM and drive controllers in there. I ended up pulling them as I had already picked up other parts that were better for those. The chassis and PSUs are nice to work with.

One thing with SM chassis, probably not an issue for you as you have an SM motherboard, but I needed a breakout cable to connect my board so that the power/reset buttons worked. Not a huge issue, I just used IPMI for a while till the cable came in. Also make sure you have the correct screws for the drive sleds. They are cheap online, but my pile of computer screws didn't work. And check the backplane type. The SAS1 expander backplanes won't support >2TB in some cases. Mine is the direct connect type, so it's just passthrough connectors. Harder to wire, but works fine.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Just keep an eye on the deals forum here and on ebay. I picked up a supermicro chassis locally for a decent price, even had an older motherboard, CPU, RAM and drive controllers in there. I ended up pulling them as I had already picked up other parts that were better for those. The chassis and PSUs are nice to work with.

One thing with SM chassis, probably not an issue for you as you have an SM motherboard, but I needed a breakout cable to connect my board so that the power/reset buttons worked. Not a huge issue, I just used IPMI for a while till the cable came in. Also make sure you have the correct screws for the drive sleds. They are cheap online, but my pile of computer screws didn't work. And check the backplane type. The SAS1 expander backplanes won't support >2TB in some cases. Mine is the direct connect type, so it's just passthrough connectors. Harder to wire, but works fine.

Thanks for the help.
I was poking around on eBay. here is a quick search I did:

supermicro chassis | eBay

On the right track? Trying to find just a chassis, no mobo/cpu/memory.
Would like to have 12-16 bay setup, in a 3U if possible.

THanks for the help

I will look here as well.
Thanks!

 

[ttabbal]

Don't rule out setups with mobo etc.. Often times, they don't cost any more, but are more available. It's easy enough to pop out the old parts. Mine came that way, and was available for local pickup as well.

 

[cheezehead]

CSE-836 or SC836 is their 3U 16-bay chassis. They also made a couple 15-bay 3U chassis before that (SC933/SC932/SC935).

Notes on the backplanes (certain chassis don't have every option)
TQ = normal SATA connectors, lots of cables but can run at any speed you want
A = Mini-SAS (8087 style) connectors but otherwise the same as TQ
SAS comes either single or dual ported with SAS1 adapters generally having issues with drives over 2TB.

Notes on PSU models
PWS-801-1R - most common PSU on older chassis, work but loud...ok for datacenter but needs replacing if at home IMO
PWS-1k21P-1R - gold rated, can't hear it from outside the room, relatively cheap on ebay (sub $30/each)
PWS-920-1R - gold rated, can't say specifically on the noise (don't have one) but very similar to the ultra quiet model
PWS-920-SQ - plat rated and damn silent, if you sleep in the room your gear is this works great but on the downside it's $$

Even though the chassis are dual PSU capable you generally only need to run a single PSU at home, as a side benefit your power consumption is slightly lower.

As with any Supermicro major chassis model, there are dozens of various preconfigured options they sold. When buying used it may or may not be that configuration (be sure to verify with photos unless they get really specific in the description on the components).

Generally when looking make sure the chassis has whatever backplane you want at the least, pref with rails if your planning on racking it as the pricing on them separate is $60-80 (sniping you might get them for $30ish if you wait weeks).

Lastly Supermicro gear is everywhere and often without their name on it. Many storage startups used their gear and ebay listings often don't reflect that its Supermicro or they do but leave out the specific model.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

CSE-836 or SC836 is their 3U 16-bay chassis. They also made a couple 15-bay 3U chassis before that (SC933/SC932/SC935).

Notes on the backplanes (certain chassis don't have every option)
TQ = normal SATA connectors, lots of cables but can run at any speed you want
A = Mini-SAS (8087 style) connectors but otherwise the same as TQ
SAS comes either single or dual ported with SAS1 adapters generally having issues with drives over 2TB.

Notes on PSU models
PWS-801-1R - most common PSU on older chassis, work but loud...ok for datacenter but needs replacing if at home IMO
PWS-1k21P-1R - gold rated, can't hear it from outside the room, relatively cheap on ebay (sub $30/each)
PWS-920-1R - gold rated, can't say specifically on the noise (don't have one) but very similar to the ultra quiet model
PWS-920-SQ - plat rated and damn silent, if you sleep in the room your gear is this works great but on the downside it's $$

Even though the chassis are dual PSU capable you generally only need to run a single PSU at home, as a side benefit your power consumption is slightly lower.

As with any Supermicro major chassis model, there are dozens of various preconfigured options they sold. When buying used it may or may not be that configuration (be sure to verify with photos unless they get really specific in the description on the components).

Generally when looking make sure the chassis has whatever backplane you want at the least, pref with rails if your planning on racking it as the pricing on them separate is $60-80 (sniping you might get them for $30ish if you wait weeks).

Lastly Supermicro gear is everywhere and often without their name on it. Many storage startups used their gear and ebay listings often don't reflect that its Supermicro or they do but leave out the specific model.

awesome...thank you very much. Incredibly helpful!

 

[tanders12]

One of the reasons I went with rolling my own was avoiding bit rot. Being able to run ZFS with ECC memory gives me a lot of peace of mind. I have a bunch of videos stored on a hard drive and noticed that some of them had gotten corrupted somehow. Don't want that happening to anything important. I'm not sure if any of the off-the-shelf solutions are known to defend against this.