Dell VEP/VMWare Edge/Velo Cloud SD-WAN/VeraCloud VEP1400/VEP1400-X firewall units

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frankharv

Active Member
Mar 3, 2024
157
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28
Too quirky. Look elsewhere. Specs unimpressive. Keep shopping.
VEP4600 for $33 was an interesting deal. I just spent $105 for interposer and the four x710 interfaces via rNDC.
FreeBSD went on it with zero hassles unlike 610/620 and that DiagOS crap.
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
Any recommendations besides get lucky, :rolleyes:? Congrats on your big win, lol
I rarely see the 'black' cases on eBay. The 'white' are newer production. If you choose 620 or higher, you should be good. Note that there are now sub-models without Wi-Fi. You may not care about the radio, but the mini-PCIe slot might be useful for other things like an NVMe SSD. I personally would hold out for a 640/680 (8/16 cores + 32GB ECC DRAM), but they're not as abundant these days. The lack of video can make initial OS installation difficult. I think Dell quality/reliability is a big plus. Otherwise, the generic boxes from China with faster processors do seem appealing. Patrick is always praising QAT, but there doesn't seem to be much (free?) support.
 

frankharv

Active Member
Mar 3, 2024
157
46
28
Any recommendations besides get lucky, :rolleyes:? Congrats on your big win, lol
I have to tell you I really hated to spend $105 on four x711 interfaces. Networking is all the box is good for.
While I had the VEP4600 chassis open I tried NVMe in the M.2 slots after I noticed NVMe settings in the BIOS.
No luck. NVMe not supported in either M.2 slot. Bummer. SATA only.
So super seriously limited storage options. Two M.2 SATA drives or USB.

I just like see how stuff works. I have plenty of gear.
My Cisco N3K only takes Cisco Transceivers and my Intel X711 Interfaces on VEP4600 only take Intel Transceivers.
Whats a poor chap to do for a 40GBe fan-out cable?
Chelsio would have no problem with the Cisco Tansceivers but Intel is a bunch of losers trying to rip everybody off with Intel-Only transcievers.
Why did i waste my money buying their rNDC interfaces? I should have got the Emulex or Broadcom ones.
Luckily it was only a $35 mistake. The rNDC modules are cheap.

I like Dell but these half baked ideas are killing me.
All kind of stuff in the BIOS greyed out.
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
I have to tell you I really hated to spend $105 on four x711 interfaces. Networking is all the box is good for.
While I had the VEP4600 chassis open I tried NVMe in the M.2 slots after I noticed NVMe settings in the BIOS.
No luck. NVMe not supported in either M.2 slot. Bummer. SATA only.
So super seriously limited storage options. Two M.2 SATA drives or USB.

I just like see how stuff works. I have plenty of gear.
My Cisco N3K only takes Cisco Transceivers and my Intel X711 Interfaces on VEP4600 only take Intel Transceivers.
Whats a poor chap to do for a 40GBe fan-out cable?
Chelsio would have no problem with the Cisco Tansceivers but Intel is a bunch of losers trying to rip everybody off with Intel-Only transcievers.
Why did i waste my money buying their rNDC interfaces? I should have got the Emulex or Broadcom ones.
Luckily it was only a $35 mistake. The rNDC modules are cheap.

I like Dell but these half baked ideas are killing me.
All kind of stuff in the BIOS greyed out.
Do you have personal experience with the 620/640/680 models? The VEP4600 is similar idea, but completely different hardware.
 

frankharv

Active Member
Mar 3, 2024
157
46
28
Yes I have VEP-610 Velocloud and VEP-620 EMC ones.

My only complaint is the CPLD and all this underlying crap... Watchdog timer that needs to be manipulated by i2c seems stupid.

I was wrong in that DIAG OS is needed to update BIOS on VEP4600. It too has a CPLD...

There is also a similar device to VEP4600:
Dell SD-WAN Edge 3400. I am not sure what the difference is. They seem like identical hardware.
 
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nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
Yes I have VEP-610 Velocloud and VEP-620 EMC ones.

My only complaint is the CPLD and all this underlying crap... Watchdog timer that needs to be manipulated by i2c seems stupid.

I was wrong in that DIAG OS is needed to update BIOS on VEP4600. It too has a CPLD...
The 620/640/680 are all the same except for CPU cores and installed options (e.g. DRAM, SSD, Wi-Fi, cellular). The latest support files (Feb/Mar 2024) are freely available from Dell's website. I'm not aware of any outstanding issues. While it would be nice to have more detailed documentation of the inner workings, these were never marketed as general purpose boxes. Dell/VMware expect you to run their licensed software. The 610 is different hardware with no free support-- avoid. I still say a 640/680 for around $100 is worth buying.
 

frankharv

Active Member
Mar 3, 2024
157
46
28
I don't disagree I just find the "customization" maddening. Is it a PC or not? We have a CPU a BMC CPU and CPLD......
I am thoroughly versed in i2c-tools I just find it ridiculous that Dell leaves that option out of BIOS.
FreeBSD reboots from watchdog timer unless you set i2c bits. That is silly.
I guess it is what you get with repurposed "edge" servers...

If it were not for the two 10Gbe interfaces I would laughed it off. Denverton or not.
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
I don't disagree I just find the "customization" maddening. Is it a PC or not? We have a CPU a BMC CPU and CPLD......
I am thoroughly versed in i2c-tools I just find it ridiculous that Dell leaves that option out of BIOS.
FreeBSD reboots from watchdog timer unless you set i2c bits. That is silly.
I guess it is what you get with repurposed "edge" servers...

If it were not for the two 10Gbe interfaces I would laughed it off. Denverton or not.
So, you're still having watchdog problems on a 620? Can anyone else confirm? Have you installed the latest DiagOS and BIOS?
 

Mo_Kai

New Member
Jul 14, 2024
8
1
1
Hey guys,

I got one of these units off ebay, the VEP1400-X Edge 680 model to be precise ( ebay-dot-com/itm/226214736858). After a lot of reading here and poking with the hardware I finally managed to get the watchdog disabled, installed Opnsense on it. It is now 2 days up and running nicely. Very nice capable hardware for my humble needs.
Since flashing the new/ latest bios I'm left with a very annoying problem. The two fans on the bottom keep constantly blowing in medium speed for no reason. It seems like a small hairdryer is constantly on. Unit itself floats around 42-45C degr.
I've tried resetting the bios many times, including the two small switches inside near the power plug, playing with the bios settings but nothing is helping. The noise of the fans is becoming annoying and in lack of any solution, I'm considering either pulling the plugs of the fans, making it fanless or selling the device.
Does anybody here knows how to solve this as I cannot find anything on ths thread.
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
Hey guys,

I got one of these units off ebay, the VEP1400-X Edge 680 model to be precise ( ebay-dot-com/itm/226214736858). After a lot of reading here and poking with the hardware I finally managed to get the watchdog disabled, installed Opnsense on it. It is now 2 days up and running nicely. Very nice capable hardware for my humble needs.
Since flashing the new/ latest bios I'm left with a very annoying problem. The two fans on the bottom keep constantly blowing in medium speed for no reason. It seems like a small hairdryer is constantly on. Unit itself floats around 42-45C degr.
I've tried resetting the bios many times, including the two small switches inside near the power plug, playing with the bios settings but nothing is helping. The noise of the fans is becoming annoying and in lack of any solution, I'm considering either pulling the plugs of the fans, making it fanless or selling the device.
Does anybody here knows how to solve this as I cannot find anything on ths thread.
You've made a valid observation. There's nothing built-in to manage the fan speed. However, it should be possible with a custom daemon. My Edge units are sitting beside other noisy equipment, so it hasn't been a priority.
 

Mo_Kai

New Member
Jul 14, 2024
8
1
1
You've made a valid observation. There's nothing built-in to manage the fan speed. However, it should be possible with a custom daemon. My Edge units are sitting beside other noisy equipment, so it hasn't been a priority.
shame, such a nice hardware with no decent fan control. At first I thought that was some setting I missed in bios
 

ast3citos

New Member
Jun 7, 2024
11
2
3
Madrid, Spain
4) Apply power [12V 5A 5.5mm x 2.1mm (2.5mm for 680)]. You can manage with less than 5A. I haven't tested to see how low.
done
I recently got the 680, brand new, box and all accessories. The power supply is a Delta Electronics DPS-65VB 12V 5.417A 65W Center positive polarity. The barrel connector is 5.5mm OD x 2.1mm ID, with locking nut. I have a Sophos XG135 rev3 that has 2.5mm inner diameter and it DOES NOT fit. I measured both with a precision caliper.

shame, such a nice hardware with no decent fan control. At first I thought that was some setting I missed in bios
Going into the Dell Diagnostics OS, which I guess is Debian, I managed to tweak the fan speed with fantool...
Code:
fantool --set --fan=<fan_number> --speed=<desired_speed>
edatool reports the following about i2c relating to thermal and fan mgmt...
Code:
Checking I2C devices on bus 1:

+ Checking CPLD 0x31  ..... Passed
+ Checking PIC 0x2d  ..... Passed
+ Checking SYSTEM EEPROM 0x50  ..... Passed
+ Checking Thermal sensor 0x4a  ..... Passed
+ Checking IC Current Monitor 0x40  ..... Passed
+ Checking FAN Controller 0x1b  ..... Passed
So I2C BUS 1, address 0x1b is the fan controller IC.

I'm still trying to find out how this relates to other OSes. If we need or not to find the manufacturer and device id and then datasheet to go forward. Maybe more info can be accessed from another OS with better tools. But technically I'm waaaay over my head on this. Someone with a little (lot) more knowledge and experience may shed some light.

----EDIT----

I found this post in this thread *facepalm* I missed it

The fan controller is TC654 at address 0x1B on i2c-0. The temperature sensor is LM75A at address 0x4A on i2c-0. I have verified that I can read from both devices under standard Debian. The temperature value does go down when I remove the cover. I'm reading 34°C at idle (cover on with 2 fans). Per Intel, the processor maximum is 82. The Diag-OS has a 'warn' value of 45 and a 'critical' value of 70. I think there's some room for tweaking. The fan controller has an analog temperature sensor input. I'm not sure it's connected to anything. It seems like my fans run at fixed rate. Maybe I just haven't pushed it hard enough.

I'll need to write an actual program with temperature feedback to safely lower the fan speed. The fan controller also monitors RPM, so those thresholds might also need to be adjusted.

I can control the front LED which has full 24-bit color. The NIC link LEDs are either system-controlled or all on/off, so not very useful. Ultimately, I'd like to expose everything in Home Assistant.

For the curious, the I2C addresses can be found in the /etc/dn/diag folder of the Diag-OS install. That's low-hanging fruit.
 
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nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
I recently got the 680, brand new, box and all accessories. The power supply is a Delta Electronics DPS-65VB 12V 5.417A 65W Center positive polarity. The barrel connector is 5.5mm OD x 2.1mm ID, with locking nut. I have a Sophos XG135 rev3 that has 2.5mm inner diameter and it DOES NOT fit. I measured both with a precision caliper.
I actually went back and edited that post once before. I just checked again. I can confirm that the adapter I'm using will not fit a 2.5mm jack. I think what probably happened is that I was using a non-standard adapter (with a center pin) which expanded the pin in the jack. I then tried a 2.1mm plug which was a little tight and found another 2.1mm (thinking it was 2.5mm) that did fit.
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
Going into the Dell Diagnostics OS, which I guess is Debian, I managed to tweak the fan speed with fantool...
Code:
fantool --set --fan=<fan_number> --speed=<desired_speed>
My tests were with Debian 12 from the Proxmox install. I'm not comfortable reducing the fan speed without a temperature-monitoring loop to speed back up if necessary. The problem I ran into is that the popular firewalls all bundle their own 'embedded' OS with limited packages available. Trying to add a simple I2C utility requires an elaborate cross-platform build environment. There's also no debugger. I'll write something for Debian and others can attempt to port.
 

ast3citos

New Member
Jun 7, 2024
11
2
3
Madrid, Spain
Just wanted to chime in on the fan noise issue with the VEP1400-X Edge 680. I’ve been digging around and found some useful info that might help with controlling those noisy fans.

The fan control chip is the TC654, as nmpu found out. You can find it on the top part of the board, near the Winbond BIOS chip. The fan connectors are on the underside of the board.

To tweak the fan speed, you can use the SMBus interface on the TC654. First, make sure you're controlling the fan speed via SMBus by setting the right bits in the Configuration Register (0x04) and Duty Cycle Register (0x06). You can do this with the following commands:

  1. Set the DUTYC bit to enable SMBus control: i2cset -y 1 0x1b 0x04 0x74
  2. Adjust the fan speed with the Duty Cycle Register (0x06):
    • For minimum speed: i2cset -y 1 0x1b 0x06 0x00
    • For medium speed: i2cset -y 1 0x1b 0x06 0x07
    • For maximum speed: i2cset -y 1 0x1b 0x06 0x0F
  3. To reset the DUTYC configuration and revert to analog control: i2cset -y 1 0x1b 0x04 0x00 This will switch the control method back to the analog input pin, where the fan speed is controlled based on the voltage applied to VIN (Voltage IN).

The Duty Cycle Register (0x06) ranges from 0x0 to 0xF, which corresponds to voltages from about 4.5V to 12V, increasing by roughly 0.5V per step.

Check these and if it works we can have a look at what else we need (like thermal monitoring) and how to port it to different platforms like OpenWrt, OPNsense, Proxmox, etc.
 

stangri

New Member
Jul 12, 2024
5
0
1
Is it possible to go to original BIOS on 620 model?

After I flashed the BIOS linked here, it started to occasionally produce some garbage on the console, leading to me not being able to proceed with the Dell's esxi installer once the grey screens come up. I want to try if it had worked with the original BIOS.

Like this is an example of what I'm talking about:
Code:
11, 32, 15, 00068001, 19, 00068000,





BIOS Boot Selector for VEP1400-X

Version 3.50.0.9-20





POST Configuration

  CPU Signature 506F1

  CPU FamilyID=6, Model=5F, SteppingId=1, Processor=0

  Microcode Revision 38

  Platform ID: 0x0

  PMG_CST_CFG_CTL: 0x37

  Misc EN: 0x840089

  Gen PM ConA: 0xA0800200

  Therm Status: 0x8000000

  POST Control=0xEA800301, Status=0xE604DF00



BIOS initializations...



CPGC Memtest Channel 0 ...................... PASS



POST:

  RTC Battery OK at last cold boot

  RTC date 7/15/2024 23:02:51



POST SPD test ............................... PASS



POST Lower DRAM Memory test ............. START

POST ECC Test ............................... PASS



....  Perf cnt (curr,fixed): 0x278104A10,0x6CA2CCC5C



POST Lower DRAM Memory test ................. PASS

POST Lower DRAM ECC check ................... PASS

37, 00068003, 4F, 3B, 00068002, 60, DXE_CORE_STARTED (03041000)

61, 9A, 02020000, 62, 78, 68, 69, 00068005, 6A, 70, 00068008, 71, 79, 03058001, 90,

DXE_BDS_STARTED (03041001), 92,

PciBusStart(02010000): 93, 94, 02011000, 93, 94, 02011000, 93, 94, 02011000, 94, 02011000, 94, 02011000, 94, 02011000, 95, 96, 91, 92,

PciBusStart(02010000): 97,
Or screenshot for clarity: 1721639398291.png

Alternatively, if anyone was able to install esxi on MMC with the `vep1400x_ufw_2.5` BIOS, how did you do it?

Thanks!
 
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ast3citos

New Member
Jun 7, 2024
11
2
3
Madrid, Spain
I would advise you to leave the Dell Diag OS installed on the eMMC and install ESXi on the sata ssd if that suits your needs.

Besides that, maybe you should check if you need to modify the boot parameters of the ESXi installer so that it uses serial console.

With linux GRUB you do it with the following command... linux /casper/vmlinuz quiet splash text console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8

But I don't really know how does the esxi installer work in regards to console...
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
I would advise you to leave the Dell Diag OS installed on the eMMC and install ESXi on the sata ssd if that suits your needs.

Besides that, maybe you should check if you need to modify the boot parameters of the ESXi installer so that it uses serial console.

With linux GRUB you do it with the following command... linux /casper/vmlinuz quiet splash text console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8

But I don't really know how does the esxi installer work in regards to console...
It sounds like he's using the special ESXi install provided by Dell. It should just work. However, can you still get a free license key from Broadcom?
 

nmpu

Member
Sep 22, 2023
89
33
18
Bradenton, Florida, USA
After I flashed the BIOS linked here, it started to occasionally produce some garbage on the console, leading to me not being able to proceed with the Dell's esxi installer once the grey screens come up.
I see similar 'garbage' on boot. Exactly how does this interfere with the ESXi install? There's lots of old firmware on Dell's website if you can find the right search terms. Do you have an ESXi key? Even if you have a free key, it's feature-limited. USB passthrough works, but no SR-IOV.