CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

[nva]

I'm reading N100 and new Atom C5315 reviews on STH main site. Am i understanding correctly that N100 actually beat Atom C5315 on compression and crypto benchmarks even though the latter is 38W part AND equipped with QAT Gen 2? I'm moving from Atom C3558 to N100 and i thought i was downgrading for smaller footprint but it seems like a massive upgrade to me.

 

[Zer0_C00L]

They're not at all the same thing. Outside of enterprise networks* - a switch transports packets within the same network, and a router transports packets between different networks (ie. between your home network and the internet)

* in enterprise networks, a layer 3 switch can route packets between network segments without needing to pass through a router, though you would still typically use a router for an internet connection.



This should be possible. Check your current router's WAN configuration, if it's a simple WAN interface with DHCP than that will be easy to replicate in opnsense.

You have a couple of options, the most performant will be to pass a couple of the ethernet ports directly to the opnsense VM so they have direct access to them. Something like:

Port0 = Proxmox admin
Port1 = Proxmox other VMs
Port2 = opnsense LAN
Port3 = opnsense WAN

All of these except Port3 would connect to your network switch.

I have my ****ing CCNA I well understand the differences between switching & routing.

A user asked if these are better used for switching or routing presumably for efficiency reasons. I commented that for these devices switching & routing makes no difference bacause all traffic hits the CPU, so traffic is traffic whatever set up you use to achieve your network topology won't significantly change the load on the device. Everything is hitting the CPU everything is being processed, routing vs switching isn't going to make a massive difference for your topology.

I'm far more interested in 10Gb on these N100/N305 (especially vs the N6005 etc) then a lesson in basic networking.

 

[flips33]

It was a lesson in basic networking for the person asking the original question, who seemed to be unclear about what switches and routers do.

A user asked if these are better used for switching or routing presumably for efficiency reasons

I don't think that's what the person was asking which is why a few people have been puzzled at your responses.

I planned to replace my router with this unit running proxmox and opsense. I did see a comment somewhere that it's best to use a switch and not a router. Am I wrong for wanting to attempt this?

 

[Thommy]

Just installed proxmox and opnsense. With almost no load the unit was quite warm. Cpu temps seems okay, but I also see a pci temp that's way to high. Then reapplying thermal paste wouldn't make sense right?

 

[Veeaye]

I'd try to rule out hardware or bios instabilities first:
1. Clear the bios to factory defaults and try again.
2. Perform a few rounds of memtest to rule out ram defects.
3. Swap out the ssd if you have another spare lying around, or use the SSD test in the bios.

I had reset to defaults, and I had tried with Becks, and tried reset to defaults again.

I actually did run a bunch of memtest before seeing this and it appears it may be the problem. Hopefully actually the RAM and not CPU/Mobo causing the memtest errors as the ram will be much easier to replace than the aliexpress purchase!

I did also use a different SSD. I cannot imagine both are bad and causing same exact issue. I'm going with Mem swap first and if that doesn't correct I'll see what Topton store will do for me. Lord I hope I do not have to go that route!

Thanks for the tips- I slowly did get around to standard troubleshooting after realizing it could just be an ordinary hardware problem not just that it was newer hardware and I don't know what I am doing with proxmox! Ha! Funny how lack of knowledge / inexperience with certain software/hardware will convince you that it is the problem even when it is not.

Great set of tips.

Also I will add that i saw high temp of 92C at about 33% of memtest before it crashed first time. I decided to repaste based on posts here. I saw approx 10 degree drop with reasonable application of mx5. It completed memmtest after that, but was still pretty hot. Huge diff with addition of fan sitting on top.

I'm guessing however if you're not hammering CPU and you've pasted it it should be fine for normal activity. Will know if I ever get mine going. Sadly don't have SODIMM DDR5 laying around since its newer...

-V

 

[ohm]

Also I will add that i saw high temp of 92C at about 33% of memtest before it crashed first time. I decided to repaste based on posts here. I saw approx 10 degree drop with reasonable application of mx5. It completed memmtest after that, but was still pretty hot. Huge diff with addition of fan sitting on top.

-V

Now that you mentioned, cpu overheating could be the cause of the observed instabilities too. Mine had unusually high temps out of the box, turned out there was a ~0.5mm gap between the cpu and the heatsink, and no amount of thermal paste reapplication could bring the temperature down to satisfactory levels. You might want to check yours too. Some others used a thermal pad to fill the gap, I didn't have any lying around and couldn't wait to buy so decided to file down the motherboard standoffs. The power button didn't quite fit the front cover after that, but at least the gap was closed and the idle temps settled at mid 40s with opnsense and a bunch of lazy services on proxmox. Have you tried reinstalling proxmox after repasting and with fanning?

 

[Veeaye]

Now that you mentioned, cpu overheating could be the cause of the observed instabilities too. Mine had unusually high temps out of the box, turned out there was a ~0.5mm gap between the cpu and the heatsink, and no amount of thermal paste reapplication could bring the temperature down to satisfactory levels. You might want to check yours too. Some others used a thermal pad to fill the gap, I didn't have any lying around and couldn't wait to buy so decided to file down the motherboard standoffs. The power button didn't quite fit the front cover after that, but at least the gap was closed and the idle temps settled at mid 40s with opnsense and a bunch of lazy services on proxmox. Have you tried reinstalling proxmox after repasting and fanning?

There is quite a gap still, my application of mx5 certainly helped significantly though I’m sure a little smaller gap would improve it further. Ignoring all of that I never approached anything like it’s rated 105c.

Also the fact that setting a fan on too of it reduced the temp substantially means the contact must be decent enough?

How would you suggest I evaluate? How much gap would you say is appropriate? Since there is no spring like mechanism and it’s direct die too much pressure could be catastrophic.

 

[ohm]

Just installed proxmox and opnsense. With almost no load the unit was quite warm. Cpu temps seems okay, but I also see a pci temp that's way to high. Then reapplying thermal paste wouldn't make sense right?

View attachment 29884

The nvme-pci-0100 temp appears to be that of your ssd. Seems unusually high, might warrant a fan or heatsink to bring the temps down. As for the cpu temps, the real test of a good heatsink thermal contact would be the temps under load. Mine was as high as 80s out of the box, but after closing the silly heatsink gap, now tops at around 70C. Nowhere near the kind of result that others had reported with thermal repasting and pads, but that'll do for now.

 

[ohm]

There is quite a gap still, my application of mx5 certainly helped significantly though I’m sure a little smaller gap would improve it further. Ignoring all of that I never approached anything like it’s rated 105c.

Also the fact that setting a fan on too of it reduced the temp substantially means the contact must be decent enough?

How would you suggest I evaluate? How much gap would you say is appropriate? Since there is no spring like mechanism and it’s direct die too much pressure could be catastrophic.

I can't say, you'd have to exercise your own judgment here. I'm a stickler for efficiency and could never live with the ridiculous out-of-box temps.

 

[idle_user]

So are all these temp/overheating issues extremely likely for anyone purchasing? Has anyone received their unit without any issues aside from having to reconfigure from the default settings?

 

[scorpid]

Hi, which access point (AP) WiFi6 to buy for n100?

 

[flips33]

So are all these temp/overheating issues extremely likely for anyone purchasing? Has anyone received their unit without any issues aside from having to reconfigure from the default settings?

I bought an N200 Variation A. I have not changed any power settings in BIOS.

Under moderate load with "performance" CPU scaling governer under Linux:



The CPU is still adjusting the frequency according to load but leans towards higher performance:



This averages about 18watts from the wall, with CPU temps range around 50-55 degrees C.

---

With the same load but "power save" CPU frequency scaling governor, apparent CPU usage is higher:



Because the CPU is spending more time at lower frequencies:



This averages around 15W from the wall with CPU temperature around 40-45 degrees C.

I haven't disassembled my unit as these numbers are consistent with what I would expect. Yes the chassis seems very warm/hot to the touch, but that's what it's designed to do.

I can get the CPU temperature 100 degreees C by running mprime on all 4 cores (Smallest FFTs (tests L1/L2 caches, high power/heat/CPU stress) but this doesn't come close to reflecting real-world usage, so I'm not concerned.

 

[nva]

Enough Bios games for now.

My personal best settings are:

- All unneeded hardware off: sound, emmc, sata, tpm
- PECI off (found in the N5105 thread)
- EPB override over PECI enabled
- Platform PL1&2 disabled (no time yet to play with)
- power limit 4 override disabled
- Package PL1 = 10000, PL2 = 25000, Energy eff- turbo enabled
- C-States enabled, Package limit C10

Chipset -> PCH-IO Config -> PCI Express Config: every PCI root except #7 : ASPM auto, L1 Substates L1.1&L1.2, L1 low = enabled. On port 7 ASPM auto, L1 substaes disabled, L1 low enabled - otherwise network under Ubuntu wasn't working.

I might have to change some of the PCI power settings later. High chance I have switched off every NIC except ETH0. But now the system runs at 6.3W idle, measured at the wall, while still having a CPU passmark of 5700 (at 20W peak).

What was your default Package PL1 and PL2? Mine was set at 28000 and 25000 when i first looked into BIOS. That seems aggressive to me and explained why i had >6100 score on default settings. I lowered those to 10000/25000 but got scores just around 5000. Variant A case on 5-port model.

 

[lucker]

which access point (AP) WiFi6 to buy for n100?

I asked about the same question CWWK store:

Q: Does the box (or BIOS?) support cnvi? I mean if the device will work with an ax201/211/411 WiFi6 module?
A: Can use the ax210 for an additional $24 (machine translation)

I thought about adding a WiFi module as well, but dropped the idea, eventually, in favor of a dedicated WiFi AP (in a OpenWRT router acting as a switch). YMMV, though.

The rationale for bare metal FreeBSD / OPNsense (which I intend to install):
There are limitations, which make to pair an external WiFi router or AP with OPNsense a popular choice; see OPNsense WiFi FAQ, Guide & Quick Config
FreeBSD supports wireless adapters in access point (infrastructure) mode, but this functionality is limited to some drivers and there may be some, which do not support all options available via the web interface (see details in the Docs)

 

[Zer0_C00L]

I asked about the same question CWWK store:

I thought about adding a WiFi module as well, but dropped the idea, eventually, in favor of a dedicated WiFi AP (in a OpenWRT router acting as a switch). YMMV, though.

The rationale for bare metal FreeBSD / OPNsense (which I intend to install):
There are limitations, which make to pair an external WiFi router or AP with OPNsense a popular choice; see OPNsense WiFi FAQ, Guide & Quick Config
FreeBSD supports wireless adapters in access point (infrastructure) mode, but this functionality is limited to some drivers and there may be some, which do not support all options available via the web interface (see details in the Docs)

Yeah, spot on for WiFi it's probably better to use a separate hardware AP, they're pretty cheap and capable. Heck, you could use the M.2 3.0 x1 lane for 4 x i226-v NICs!

 

[Becks0815]

So are all these temp/overheating issues extremely likely for anyone purchasing? Has anyone received their unit without any issues aside from having to reconfigure from the default settings?

Repasted mine, runs fine without getting hot. Even warm is relative, with around 40-44°C CPU temp under load. This is totally acceptable for a computer. And it only draws 6-7W under load, measured at the 12V rail, plus I have an uptime of about 40 days with zero crashes so far, which will be set to zero as soon as I update to Proxmox 8.

So for me it was a 100% win to buy and install it.

About WiFi cards in these things: I prefer to use a physical separated unit, because either I have to place the AP or the router in a bad place. The AP wants to be high on the wall, at a central place in the apartment, the router should be placed where the rest of the ecosystem (NAS, printer, switch, power supplies...) is. I would buy a Ruckus 350 or similar, if I had to choose again. Now I am stuck with this UI AP which is ok, but the steering software is crap.

 

[scorpid]

I asked about the same question CWWK store:

I thought about adding a WiFi module as well, but dropped the idea, eventually, in favor of a dedicated WiFi AP (in a OpenWRT router acting as a switch). YMMV, though.

The rationale for bare metal FreeBSD / OPNsense (which I intend to install):
There are limitations, which make to pair an external WiFi router or AP with OPNsense a popular choice; see OPNsense WiFi FAQ, Guide & Quick Config
FreeBSD supports wireless adapters in access point (infrastructure) mode, but this functionality is limited to some drivers and there may be some, which do not support all options available via the web interface (see details in the Docs)

I have dedicated WiFi6 AP. What can you advise?

 

[Becks0815]

What was your default Package PL1 and PL2?

I think 25000 and 12000, but I changed it according to my post with all the settings I have changed.

 

[fta]

And it only draws 6-7W under load, measured at the 12V rail

This must be a simple load. For example, when I download from WAN at full line rate (1Gbps), it's going through all my firewall rules, plus forwarding, plus traffic shaping. It takes about 15W to do all of that on an i5 1235u.

 

[Becks0815]

yep. And peak is at around 11W when I push 200mbit in both directions using multiple torrents with hundreds of connections. Yet CPU load is never above 20%