Custom VRM Heat Sink for H11DSi (Update: Initial Thermal Test Results)

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erock

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Jul 19, 2023
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Here is a pic with the springy screw installed just to the point where it grabs onto the heatsink threads. A 3mm PH0 screw driver is placed between the spring and the heatsink to simulate a 2mm thick mobo and a 1mm thermal pad. If you compare this to one of my initial pics above it looks like I initially overtightened the screw by several mm.

This is my first experience noodling with these types of screws. For this case it looks like the purpose of the spring is to (1) provide guidance on how far to tighten (I think the spring is supposed to compress just a little bit), (2) to provide a bit of stability. Is this typical?

It would be nice to have instructions but I guess that’s what you get with a custom heatsink from eBay.

I am starting to rethink this heatsink since the vrm temperatures are fine for my use case but I am super curious to see if this heat sink keeps the vrm temps in check under full load for the dual 7k62. There should be a STH forum badge for taking unnecessary risks
 

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twin_savage

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You'll want atleast 3-4 turns of screw engagement to be safe from the threads getting pulled out; if you can't achieve that with the existing screws you'll need longer ones.
Conical springs like the one in the picture are good at providing a constant force so that over tightening doesn't happen, they actually have a variable spring constant so they they provide similar force even when compressed more.
 
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erock

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I am back at it now that supplies have arrived. Here is a pic after installing and then uninstalling using M2 9.5 screws (vs M2 9) and 1 mm Arctic TP 3 thermal pads. I was able to get two full turns of the screws. Next I want to test thicker thermal pads to see if I can get a bit more distance from the capacitor on the left side and the copper heat sink. Note the factory pad was 1.5 mm and more stiff. Arctic claims I can double up the pads to 2 mm without loosing performance. I will test this next followed by a 1.5mm once they arrive.
 

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erock

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I landed on a configuration that I think is safe and worth testing with a full rebuild:
  • 1mm x 2 Arctic TP 3: This compresses down to ~1.5 mm, maintains safe separation between copper heat sink and, and looks much more in line with the factory config.
  • M2 12mm screws: I can get full threading and stability while maintaining less than 5mm of protrusion on the backside of the board (stand off are 6mm). With full threading, the double stack of Arctic TP 3 compresses decreasing thermal resistance while keeping capacitors away from the copper heat sink.
 

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erock

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Here is a short thermal test showing close to equilibrium conditions. I will run a longer test later. CPU VRM temps stabilize around 77C under full CPU load after 15 min run time. This doesn’t seem as great as what was advertised on goofish but I am using thicker pads than what was shipped with the heatsink (2mm vs 1mm). Now it is time to tweek and tinker (different pad brand ?, 1.5 mm pads?) but I am not comfortable with the 1mm pads that shipped with the product so I won’t be going that low due to risk of capacitors touching the copper heat sink.

(still at 76-77C at 28 min)
 

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sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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Do you have temp measurements prior this change to compare results to (under the same stress test conditions)?

What are recommended reasonable (and max) operating temps for those VRMs?

For example lots of MOSFETs are designed to operate long-term on up to 90-100 C temps (for several years), if you are well below 80 degrees (although depends on sensor position) then all this upgrade hardly has impact on VRM life durability/degradation of it's characteristics/parameters (and for instance can last from 5 to 10+ years easily making more likely other MB components to fail or platform just becomes obsolete).
Server boards are designed to last much longer (especially comparing statistics to cheaper segment of home-use overclocking MB, some cheap brands live just one-two years).

Also it's normal for VRMs of CPU1 and CPU2 to have different temps because of VRM locations (e.g. hot exhaust from CPU1 blows directly onto VRM from CPU2 whilst VRM for CPU1 is on air inflow and has no such inflow of hot air).

You might benefit from having more customized time-line graph with min/max for just desired VRM segment over say 1 hr of stress benchmark.

I don't see material differences for between 1 and 2 for VRMCPU and VRMSoC but only 10+ C degrees between VRMP1 and VRMP2

Thicker thermal pad means worse thermal conductivity between CPU lid and metal of heatsink, therefore negating desired effect between original factory-mounted one and custom (although both have even surface therefore should have same clearances also perhaps apart of difference arising {a} from using different rotation strength/pressure/springs for mounting screws/bolts and {b} considering the fact of fatter weight {more heat absorption} + effect of directly-mounted cooler vibration {dynamics} and size {VRM height} difference resulting to rotational momentum pressure if MB is mounted vertically {standing position, not laying flat})

Just a thought/experience sharing: In my practice to eliminate/reduce risk effect of different heights for surface-mounted electronic components (circuit shorting if spring squeeze makes a physical contact between component and metal surface of heatsink) I would normally work on heatsink with file or drill (since most home users wouldn't have proper face mill normally available on industrial metalworks premises {although small diameter sometimes is a problem there too}) - making height/distance more even which allows minimization of thermal conductivity loss accounted for thermal paste/pad.
File approach doesn't make much sense in your case (since this is just one component, not a lined array of those, plus working with file on metals with higher viscosity like copper or aluminum requires extra effort and tool maintenance) but drill would be much simpler (drill bit for hard metal because entry surface angle shouldn't be so sharp, drill for softer materials will give too uneven/angled hole surface) without making a hole (to minimize change in mechanical folding resistance/integrity) but only to lower level for half a millimeter, not of too large diameter but sufficient to compensate some variance in mounting granting enough clearance around it (avoiding risk of misalignment).
 
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erock

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Do you have temp measurements prior this change to compare results to (under the same stress test conditions)?

What are recommended reasonable (and max) operating temps for those VRMs?

For example lots of MOSFETs are designed to operate long-term on up to 90-100 C temps, if you are well below 80 degrees (although depends on sensor position) then all this upgrade hardly has impact on VRM life durability/degradation.
With the original heat sink, comparable ambient temperature (75F), and identical stress test (standard s-tui/stress-ng all threads test), CPU VRM temperatures reach 79-83C after 25min. So the improvement here is maybe a few degrees. I was unable to find formal specs on these VRM chips (I am sure they are somewhere) but the recommendation from several people on this forum is that the VRM temperatures should be less than 80-90C with anything greater than 100C causing throttling. @RolloZ170 provided a particularly insightful plot showing the relationship between current and VRM temperature here.

It is interesting to note that the experiments shared by the seller show CPU VRM temperatures around 65-66C. See the forum threads located here and here for details. But the test configuration and timing used to produce these temperatures are not clear to me (perhaps my Chinese translation is off).

So yes, for this 2mm thermal pad scenario, this exercise indicates that the magnitude of improvement is not significant enough to justify the time/money/effort (and risk of damaging the board). The 1.5mm thermal pad may produce an additional ~5C drop and maybe with more conductive pads we could achieve another ~5C drop. But is this worth the effort? Probably not especially for my scientific computing use case that involves short bursts of max CPU load. I bet we could get even better results with a 1mm thermal pad, as was shipped with the heat sink, but I think the danger of shorting out components is too high as decribed by @twin_savage.

So why did I do this? I am interested in upgrading several dual socket nodes in my cluster to 64 core Rome CPUs once they at the $400-500 mark in the second hand market, which seems to be on the horizon. These CPU's can yield VRM temperatures that exceed 90C, and this case could benefit from a better heat sink. The experimentation shared in this thread is a relatively cheap ($45 for heat sink + cost of thermal pads) way to gauge the utility of this custom product for this future potential upgrade. I also learned a lot about thermal pads, working with springy screws and regulating expectations from custom solutions. And I didn't damage my board (yet).

Also it's normal for VRMs of CPU1 and CPU2 to have different temps because of VRM locations (e.g. hot exhaust from CPU1 blows directly onto VRM from CPU2 whilst VRM for CPU1 is on air inflow and has no such inflow of hot air).

You might benefit from having more customized time-line graph with min/max for just desired VRM segment over say 1 hr of stress benchmark.

I don't see material differences for between 1 and 2 for VRMCPU and VRMSoC but only 10+ C degrees between VRMP1 and VRMP2
My cluster is tailored for a research office setting requiring noise to be at a reasonable level. Therefore, vertical full tower cases with excellent airflow are used that accommodate large and quiet Noctua coolers. These coolers have fans that blow toward the top of the case which reduces the temperature differences commonly observed in a 2u/4U chassis with high rpm fans blowing toward the back.

Thicker thermal pad means worse thermal conductivity between CPU lid and metal of heatsink, therefore negating desired effect between original factory-mounted one and custom (although both have even surface therefore should have same clearances also perhaps apart of difference arising {a} from using different rotation strength/pressure/springs for mounting screws/bolts and {b} considering the fact of fatter weight {more heat absorption} + effect of directly-mounted cooler vibration {dynamics} and size {VRM height} difference resulting to rotational momentum pressure if MB is mounted vertically {standing position, not laying flat})
Agree with one modification. Changes in thickness lead to a changes in thermal resistance (degrees C/W = thickness/conductivity/Area) whereas thermal conductivity is a material property that is not a function of thickness assuming all other variables are held constant.

Just a thought/experience sharing: In my practice to eliminate/reduce risk effect of different heights for surface-mounted electronic components (circuit shorting if spring squeeze makes a physical contact between component and metal surface of heatsink) I would normally work on heatsink with file or drill (since most home users wouldn't have proper face mill normally available on industrial metalworks premises {although small diameter sometimes is a problem there too}) - making height/distance more even which allows minimization of thermal conductivity loss accounted for thermal paste/pad.
File approach doesn't make much sense in your case (since this is just one component, not a lined array of those, plus working with file on metals with higher viscosity like copper or aluminum requires extra effort and tool maintenance) but drill would be much simpler (drill bit for hard metal because entry surface angle shouldn't be so sharp, drill for softer materials will give too uneven/angled hole surface) without making a hole (to minimize change in mechanical folding resistance/integrity) but only to lower level for half a millimeter, not of too large diameter but sufficient to compensate some variance in mounting granting enough clearance around it (avoiding risk of misalignment).
Thank you for sharing this. I will keep this in mind for future work.
 

sam55todd

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P.S. Almost forgot (was thinking about putting into previous post but got consumed by re-reading whole peace so this bit slipped away) - alternatively as a quick and dirty solution to prevent possibility of electrical component shortcuts on thermo-pad squeeze - you can put cut-off into right shape piece of thin (0.1-0.3mm) non-conductive thermo-resistant solid material between this problematic capacitor and heatsink, some plastic films are thermo-resistive (150 C and up), or like I have pieces of Kapton cable coating (although those are a bit thick),

simplest option (I've used in some builds) if your capacitor has no up-looking sharp edges capable of puncturing layers - might be putting some 5x5mm baking paper (sold in rolls or sheets for kitchens in most large grocery supermarkets, I think most of those have like close to 0.1mm thickness) between thermal pad and heatsink in that area. Baking paper is relatively strong, made of cellulose/wood pulp (non-conductive, some are silicone and some fiberglass, but those might be a bit thicker) and withstands temps above 250/300 C (obviously it's also non-toxic if heated). Cellulose insulation used in construction lasts for 20-30 years (less under heat)
Here's random example: Baking Paper 50m Baking Parchment Paper Unbleached Premium Quality | eBay
 
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markfw

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Dec 14, 2021
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I purchased a custom vrm heat sink for the H11DSi mobo. There is a layer of thermal-paste-like gray material along the base of the heat sink. A thin layer of transparent plastic holds this gray material in place. Not sure what exactly to do with the thin plastic layer. No instructions were sent with the heat sink and my questions may be getting lost in translation with the vender. What would you do with the thin plastic layer? Remove it or keep it in place?
Do you have a link so I could get these ?