CSE-846 questions

[katit]

Today I got my chassis and have some questions. I started this topic looking for something and now I got it:
https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-case-for-my-new-nas-server-how-to-know.6204/

So, I got those chassis. Here is what it came with:
1. PWS-1K21P-1R 80+ GOLD PSU
2. BPN-SAS2-846EL1 back plane
3. All fans is 4-wire
4. Clear plastic air duct
5. 2x SAS cables

Now, after I know what I got, I have some questions (many). Hopefully it's all easy stuff

1. Where do I get bolts to mound HDDs? Size/PN?
2. Do I need to put something into empty bays? I will have 6 drives to start with, there will be 18 empties. Does it matter which slots I occupy first? Do I need to block airflow to other slots?
3. SAS cabling. How do I connect my motherboard to the BP? What cable do I need? Can I use ones I got or they will be short? CBL-0108L-02 is what I have. Motherboard I'm getting Supermicro X10SL7-F, it's got LSI-2308 onboard.
Amazon.com: Monoprice 0.5m 30AWG Internal Mini SAS 36pin (SFF-8087) Male w/ Latch to SATA 7pin Female (x4) Forward Breakout Cable - Black: Computers & Accessories
This is cable I was getting when doing OTHER way around, from LSI card to drives. Now I need from MB to BP, will it work? Should I get 2x of those cables to hook all 8 channels on MB and plug into 2x connectors on BP?
4. When I connect MB to BP, which connector on BP to use? PRI_J0, ..J1, ..J2 ?
5. Cooling CPU. Can I use OEM radiator and cooler from CPU I got? (G3470)? Or, should I go with air duct and get some other radiator? Which radiator?
6. Midplane fans. I see that wires were connected to MB. But I also see 3 spots for fans on BP, what are they? Does BP somehow control fans too? Or just use MB?
7. Power to backplane. All 6 connectors connected, wires coming from PSU section. Do all of those connectors have to carry power?

Right now questions #1-#4 is most important, it's what necessary to get system running on a bench. After I get it running, I will start playing with cooling options and monitor temperatures.

I think that how I place HDDs is probably most important. If I spread them out as "chess board" - most likely I won't need any blanks and no need too spin fans high since HDDs will get lot's of airflow around them. Right?

 

[PigLover]

You got a nice chassis with good PSUs, the right fans and a good backplane. Nice purchase.

To your questions:

Screws: Amazon.com: Supermicro Screw Bag and Label for 24x Hot swap 3.5-Inch HDD Tray Cable (MCP-410-00005-0N): Computers & Accessories

Empty bays: you should be OK as long as you leave the empty drive carriers plugged in. Ideally they should have blanks in them to limit airflow through the empty drive bays, but no biggie if its just the empty carrier.

Cable: you need a REVERSE breakout cable. The one you listed is a forward breakout cable. This part is really important - REVERSE breakout cable. Example: Amazon.com: Deconn 0.5M Mini-SAS 36Pin SFF8087 To 4X Straight Reverse SATA Fanout Cable: Electronics
Note: if you haven't bought the MB yet there are plenty of similar SM boards that have SFF8087 SAS connectors instead of 8 discrete SAS plugs...

SFF8087 Plugs on the backplane: take your choice. They are all created equal. SM will tell you to use J0, but in practice it doesn't matter.

CPU Cooler: you can use any cooler you like. The shroud is designed to support Supermicro's passive coolers. If you use an active cooler and the shroud won't fit just leave it out.

Fans: use the MB connectors. The ones on the backplane are for JBOD configs where you don't have a MB. You'll get better fan control from the MB IPMI controlled fans. The ones on the backplane will run your fans at full speed all the time (i.e., bloody loud).

Backplane power: yes - leave all 6 plugs installed.

 

[katit]

You got a nice chassis with good PSUs, the right fans and a good backplane. Nice purchase.

Thank you guys for telling me what I need. I got 1x PSU as I wasn't sure if I will use it at all. I checked noise, will be fine. So I will use this 1 PSU.. With all this + rails I paid $315 shipped. Would be extra $40 for second PSU.

Cable: you need a REVERSE breakout cable. The one you listed is a forward breakout cable. This part is really important - REVERSE breakout cable. Example: Amazon.com: Deconn 0.5M Mini-SAS 36Pin SFF8087 To 4X Straight Reverse SATA Fanout Cable: Electronics
Note: if you haven't bought the MB yet there are plenty of similar SM boards that have SFF8087 SAS connectors instead of 8 discrete SAS plugs...

I picked MB as highly recommended for FreeNAS (which I'm building) and it's already enroute. Will be here on Tuesday. Need to order cables now, can't wait to build it..

SFF8087 Plugs on the backplane: take your choice. They are all created equal. SM will tell you to use J0, but in practice it doesn't matter.

Since I have 8 connectors on MB, should I use 2x cables (4 connectors each) and connect them to J0/J1? Will it give better performance?

CPU Cooler: you can use any cooler you like. The shroud is designed to support Supermicro's passive coolers. If you use an active cooler and the shroud won't fit just leave it out.

Don't you think it's better idea to follow SM design and use shroud with passive cooling? I'd like to hear if someone used both ways and differences. I'm more worrying about cooling efficiency and power efficiency..

 

[T_Minus]

Thank you guys for telling me what I need. I got 1x PSU as I wasn't sure if I will use it at all. I checked noise, will be fine. So I will use this 1 PSU.. With all this + rails I paid $315 shipped. Would be extra $40 for second PSU.


I picked MB as highly recommended for FreeNAS (which I'm building) and it's already enroute. Will be here on Tuesday. Need to order cables now, can't wait to build it..


Since I have 8 connectors on MB, should I use 2x cables (4 connectors each) and connect them to J0/J1? Will it give better performance?

Don't you think it's better idea to follow SM design and use shroud with passive cooling? I'd like to hear if someone used both ways and differences. I'm more worrying about cooling efficiency and power efficiency..

As far as the air shroud goes... I did tests with the LID off and ON (5 drives only) and the temp only changed 1*.

Air shroud vs none on 1366 passive I only noticed a couple.

I have 4+ 846s, and I don't use a shroud in 1 of them. I can have it on behind me 2' away with the lid off and it's like any other desktop. (With 4U Active, 2U Active HSF is a bit screamy!!)

PWM fans are awesome, and you won't have a problem without air shroud.

If you go with air shroud AND passive HS expect the chassis fan to be much louder and the CPUs to always run slightly warmer than active HSF. (Unless you set fans all the way all the time -- which isn't uncommon, esp with only 1-5 servers it's not much $ fior the insurance.)

 

[katit]

Ok, then it makes it even simpler. I already have factory fan/heatsink so no issue here.

Breakout cable is a game stopper. Quick search on eBay pointed to same cables, same seller (Devconn). And they all show delivery end of July-mid-August.. Dang.. Any reasonable priced vendors here in USA?

 

[T_Minus]

You could always find a HBA + 8087<->8087 cable for $100 or less too, in fact a memmber here had some with cables. Sucks your board has indiv. ports, the reason it's popular for NAS is because so many sata prots but you have a backplane so you only really need the 1 mobo port, if you hadn't gotten that board I'd have suggesteda nother as @PigLover did,

Shipping estimate: Monday, July 20, 2015 - Tuesday, July 21, 2015

That's for the cables @PigLover suggested on AMAZON. I TOTALLY forgot I actually needed a couple of them for some NAS projects and placed the order, priced right it seemed. If they update me Monday and say it won't ship for another 2 weeks I'll cancel, and update you.

 

[katit]

Those cables:
Amazon.com: Deconn 0.5M Mini-SAS 36Pin SFF8087 To 4X Straight Reverse SATA Fanout Cable: Electronics

They say Aug 12-28 delivery...

Yes, too late as MB is shipped now Can you suggest alternate MB that you think would work? Same socket and other good stuff (IPMI, LSI, etc) I will see what return policy is like and might just replace if it works out time and $$$-wise.

 

[T_Minus]

You're correct: Arriving Wed, Aug 12 - Fri, Aug 28

I only looked @ Ship Date -- Unless I find a better deal I'll keep that order.

If you need sooner I'd check ebay, they likely have a ton, but $7.xx with 0 ship is hard to beat.

 

[PigLover]

The fat/red cables are ugly and they are $4 each more expensive, but for a fee they'll ship overnight tommorrow... NORCO C-SFF8087-4S Accessories - Newegg.com

You can certainly get two of them and connect to J0/J1 to dual-link the backplane. Both the backplane and the LSI2308 support that so should be all good. You won't see any meaningful performance difference unless you are populating the backplane with SSDs. 4xSAS2 gives you 2400MBPS - 24x really good, really fast SATA drives gives you theoretical 3600MBPS of demand (24 x 150MBPS/each) - but in practice you'll almost never be hitting all 24 drives at the same time and - in all likelihood - you'll be using drives that are more likely to transfer at about 110MBPS.

I agree with @T_Minus on the shroud. For the most part you don't need it. If you are using passive coolers I'd reccomend it, but it will work without it. With active cooling its definitely not needed. Intel stock coolers work great. If you want SM cooling solutions look here to get the part numbers and then shop. Super Micro Computer, Inc. | Support

 

[katit]

All set then! No, I don't need to mess with cooling knowing what I know now. I will use stock Intel cooler I already have..

Will go with one fat red cable I will have 6 drives and probably won't add any soon. Should be good..
Btw, same NORCO cable on eBay is $20 and it's a cheapest cable shipped in USA.

 

[neo]

I have an extra pair of those red cables. $15 shipped if you want it.

 

[katit]

I already ordered one...

 

[katit]

Note: if you haven't bought the MB yet there are plenty of similar SM boards that have SFF8087 SAS connectors instead of 8 discrete SAS plugs...

Can you recommend one along same lines from Supermicro. MB came in today damaged. I may switch to another MB since I will be getting refund.

Same socket (I've got CPU), same X10, etc. I can't find anything else in similar form/shape with SAS2?

 

[katit]

You're correct: Arriving Wed, Aug 12 - Fri, Aug 28

I only looked @ Ship Date -- Unless I find a better deal I'll keep that order.

If you need sooner I'd check ebay, they likely have a ton, but $7.xx with 0 ship is hard to beat.

I got mine today!! It was pretty quick, much faster than estimate... Did you get yours?

 

[T_Minus]

Nothing yet. I think it said tomorrow or Monday.

 

[katit]

It's alive!!! More questions. Decided not to populate another thread. Remember, I got X10SL7-F motherboard. Right now I just installed memory and CPU with Intel cooler. And installed MB into case and hooked up power and controls.

Everything was plug and play, I have one PSU and it's in lower bay, seem to be working fine.

Questions:

1. First I checked jumpers on motherboard and figured why do I need VGA? Disabled it. And it seems like IPMI console screen just black, no video. Is that correct? IPMI console won't work if I disable VGA via jumper? If thats true, what good is this jumper for? I figured it should save some resources if I don't connect to VGA port..

2. IPMI is cool! I never seen it before and I like it a lot. No more looking for proper VGA cable, etc But how does it work? Does it use Power SMB to control power on/off? I don't remember Power SMB connector on my old workstations I built... Anyway. When shut down - system idles at 14-15W according to Kill-A-Watt. Is that OK?? Normal? I realize it is also IPMI running. PSU fan is spinning.

3. When system UP - no fans, just CPU fan ON - it idles right at 70W. Again, it's without OS. Will OS bring power usage down?

4. When system UP AND Backplane connected - it idles at 80W. Does it mean I pay 10W for having backplane (SAS2) ?

5. I hooked 1 front and 1 rear fans up and they are pretty noisy even in "optimal" mode. Also, when I said that this GOLD PSU was OK noise-wise I lied. It's OK when it's not powering system up. When System ON - it is annoying for my taste.. Question here: How do you extend 4-pin fan cables as they don't reach..

6. I have 5 FAN connectors on MB. I have 1 CPU and 5 Fans, 1 too many. Is there some kind of splitter you use for this?

 

[katit]

Anyone?

 

[T_Minus]

It's alive!!! More questions. Decided not to populate another thread. Remember, I got X10SL7-F motherboard. Right now I just installed memory and CPU with Intel cooler. And installed MB into case and hooked up power and controls.

Everything was plug and play, I have one PSU and it's in lower bay, seem to be working fine.

Questions:

1. First I checked jumpers on motherboard and figured why do I need VGA? Disabled it. And it seems like IPMI console screen just black, no video. Is that correct? IPMI console won't work if I disable VGA via jumper? If thats true, what good is this jumper for? I figured it should save some resources if I don't connect to VGA port..

2. IPMI is cool! I never seen it before and I like it a lot. No more looking for proper VGA cable, etc But how does it work? Does it use Power SMB to control power on/off? I don't remember Power SMB connector on my old workstations I built... Anyway. When shut down - system idles at 14-15W according to Kill-A-Watt. Is that OK?? Normal? I realize it is also IPMI running. PSU fan is spinning.

3. When system UP - no fans, just CPU fan ON - it idles right at 70W. Again, it's without OS. Will OS bring power usage down?

4. When system UP AND Backplane connected - it idles at 80W. Does it mean I pay 10W for having backplane (SAS2) ?

5. I hooked 1 front and 1 rear fans up and they are pretty noisy even in "optimal" mode. Also, when I said that this GOLD PSU was OK noise-wise I lied. It's OK when it's not powering system up. When System ON - it is annoying for my taste.. Question here: How do you extend 4-pin fan cables as they don't reach..

6. I have 5 FAN connectors on MB. I have 1 CPU and 5 Fans, 1 too many. Is there some kind of splitter you use for this?

1. I don't know for sure but it sounds to me like it affects IPMI. I wouldn't worry about resources it's light weight, and doesn't get that hot.

2. That is normal, and due to the PSU & PSU FAN. A platinum PSU will drop that down to 7-10w.

3. Depending on the OS some adjust the power state / efficiency that you can ALSO change in BIOS where it even states something along the lines of "SOME OS CHANGE THIS".

4. It looks like that to me.

5. Platinum PSU are quieter, SQ Platinum are even quieter but cost goes up with efficiency and less sound.
5a. They make PWM Fan extensions. SuperMICRO even included some with certain chassis and boards, at-least some I got had them.

6. Yes, there are a lot of splitters. 1 fan will be used for the reading and cause the varying speed of the others 'linked'.

 

[katit]

Interesting.. So, platinum PSU minus backplane can save me 20W on a spot
Not sure I'd like to give up backplane because of convenience. But PSU now bothers me a lot. I know that even this server will be in a basement - it will be annoying.

Does anybody know of a good sources for Platinum SQ PSUs?

Also, I didn't measure but what about fans? Are those stock PWM fans pretty good? They are little loud but I'm curious how are they power-efficinecy wise?

Currently my choices is to mount it on a rack ASAP so I don't hear this anymore Or think about getting more power efficiency out of it (and quiet it down)

 

[canta]

Interesting.. So, platinum PSU minus backplane can save me 20W on a spot
Not sure I'd like to give up backplane because of convenience. But PSU now bothers me a lot. I know that even this server will be in a basement - it will be annoying.

Does anybody know of a good sources for Platinum SQ PSUs?

Also, I didn't measure but what about fans? Are those stock PWM fans pretty good? They are little loud but I'm curious how are they power-efficinecy wise?

Currently my choices is to mount it on a rack ASAP so I don't hear this anymore Or think about getting more power efficiency out of it (and quiet it down)

search on ebay, not common but you can find those patiently.
I was on the edge to buy with ~$100 including shipping for SQ, but got distracted with 2X500W platinum for $120 free shipping..
120 for 2X500W platinum non versus ~100 for 1X 920W SQ.