Converting an HP DL380e Gen8 14xLFF Server to a Disk Shelf

amp88

New Member
Jul 9, 2020
28
23
3
Hello, thanks for the reply, my intention was using dl380e g8 disk cage as a external disk enclosure for existing dl360 g9, connecting the mini sas sff 8087 cable from dl380e g8 disk backplane to dl360 g9 onboard sata controller ports as picture shown, then powering the disk cage through g9's redundant power supply hstns-pc40.

View attachment 21032
If you want to power the G8 drive cage's backplane using an HP server PSU with a mining breakout board which only has 6-pin PCIe power outputs then you'll have to either buy or make custom cables. The simplest way to do this (if you're comfortable re-pinning connectors) is to buy PCIe to EPS12V adapter cables and change the order of the pins in the EPS12V end to match the pinout contained in the first post of this thread. If you can't find PCIe to EPS12V adapter cables which are long enough for your intended solution then you can add some standard PCIe to PCIe extension cables, which you'll plug in to the breakout board first, then you add your re-pinned PCIe to EPS12V cables onto the end of those. That's the path I took when setting mine up this way.

Keep in mind: if you plug in a standard PCIe to EPS12V cable into the backplane of the G8 the pin order is wrong and you may do irreparable damage to your backplane and potentially any drives connected to it. If you change the pin order of the connectors make sure you follow the first post to match the pins.
 

UhClem

Active Member
Jun 26, 2012
291
144
43
NH, USA
... and the 3rd SFF port is to connect the rear dual 2.5" cage to the RAID card via passing thru the expander.
[I don't have a DL380 g8, but]Looking at the picture (see above) I don't see a 3rd SFF port; I do see (lower-left corner) a 7-pin (sata-like) connector, and to the right, a 7-pin+15-pin (sata-like) connector. [If there really is a 3rd SFF (hiding under that cable mass), all the better--dual-link (for max bandwidth) PLUS 5 (vs 4) x4 cage connections.]
If I had to pick one, Id use the H240
1.) a quick read stated the P822 has its own internal expander, double stacking expanders is less than optimal.
2.) the H240 look to be 12Gb SAS cards, which are kinda overkill considering this is a 6Gb backplane and the expander halves that to 3.
3.) both cards are HP proprietary and not advised to use in anything thats not a HPE system as theyre super picky
4.) P822 is RAID, H240 is a HBA. For use in stuff like TrueNAS, Unraid, ZFS you want JBOD.
-------------------
>>EDIT<< (3 days later) Now, I strongly believe that I am incorrect in my (below/original) response to item 1) [Bad assumption on my part. I have no reason to question the HP specs. The P822 controller does use the SRCv 8x6G chip (PMC8020), which is a 8-port part, and in a 24-port card, "must" be supplemented internally by an expander part. Hence, the P822 will not achieve the 6.5 GB/sec throughput of the Adaptec 24-port cards (probably maxing @4.5 GB/sec [SAS2 x2]).
--------------------
1) If your "quick read" was from the P822 Quick Specs, you were misled. On page 3, under Standard Features, there IS a section labeled "RAID Processor and Expander" but I contend that this is a poor choice of word on HP's part. [Also, note, in the section just above, Host Interface, it states "P822 includes a PMC-Sierra SRCv 8x6G SAS RAID-on-chip", but, in fact, the P822 includes a SRCv 24x6G SAS ROC, namely the PMC8015.] That chip is also used in Adaptec (aka PMC) 78165 (& 72405) controllers. Performance measurments/specs, by Adaptec, of 6400 MB/sec, indicate that all PMC8015-based cards (78165, 72405, P822) do not utilize a SAS expander. [Regardless, cascading of SAS2 expanders would have negligible/immeasurable performance effect.]
3)But @rodanny 's DL380 g8 explicitly does support the P822
4)The P822 can be put in JBOD mode via HPSSA (But note that @rodanny certainly appeared to be asking for HW RAID.)
 
Last edited:

valepe

New Member
Jul 3, 2021
7
0
1
I'd like to make a similar thing with a sff gen8 backplane from a DL360.
Can you tell me the pinout of power connector? It's a 10 pin, not a 8 pin like the DL380
 
Last edited:

audiophonicz

New Member
Jan 11, 2021
17
16
3
[I don't have a DL380 g8, but]Looking at the picture (see above) I don't see a 3rd SFF port; I do see (lower-left corner) a 7-pin (sata-like) connector, and to the right, a 7-pin+15-pin (sata-like) connector. [If there really is a 3rd SFF (hiding under that cable mass), all the better--dual-link (for max bandwidth) PLUS 5 (vs 4) x4 cage connections.]
Apologies, you are correct, its not a SFF but rather two 7pin SATA connections and one to power the cage. Technically its the upper right hand corner looking from the rear of the backplane. They are labeled HDD13 (7+15) and HDD14 (7pin)

1) If your "quick read" was from the P822 Quick Specs, you were misled. On page 3, under Standard Features, there IS a section labeled "RAID Processor and Expander" but I contend that this is a poor choice of word on HP's part. [Also, note, in the section just above, Host Interface, it states "P822 includes a PMC-Sierra SRCv 8x6G SAS RAID-on-chip", but, in fact, the P822 includes a SRCv 24x6G SAS ROC, namely the PMC8015.] That chip is also used in Adaptec (aka PMC) 78165 (& 72405) controllers. Performance measurments/specs, by Adaptec, of 6400 MB/sec, indicate that all PMC8015-based cards (78165, 72405, P822) do not utilize a SAS expander. [Regardless, cascading of SAS2 expanders would have negligible/immeasurable performance effect.]
3)But @rodanny 's DL380 g8 explicitly does support the P822
4)The P822 can be put in JBOD mode via HPSSA (But note that @rodanny certainly appeared to be asking for HW RAID.)
1) It was actually some random forum I dont even remember. I admittedly didnt look tooo hard, hence the "quick read". I'm more versed in LSI chips than the Adaptec. Now that you've listed the actual chip that card uses, i do see that " The new Series 7 family are Adaptec’s first generation of controllers reap the benefits of the merger with PMC... " and " The driving force behind the Series 7 is that no expanders are needed to connect up to 24 devices..."

2) did you miss this one?

3) of course it does, I dont see why it wouldnt be.

4)I dont see where he specifically stated HW RAID. Rather he used the term "RAID card" and given the language barrier and general questions being asked, I assumed he was using the term ambiguously rather than specifying RAID vs HBA, which is why I stated IF hes going to use it for zfs, and why I would have gone with the other HP branded card.

But seriously, thanks for calling me out where I'm incorrect. Like i said, i didnt look too hard. Quick post i probably shouldnt have made at work :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: amp88

UhClem

Active Member
Jun 26, 2012
291
144
43
NH, USA
....
1) It was actually some random forum I dont even remember. ...
After pondering the "expander vs no_expander" issue, I now believe that I was wrong! I had NO reason to question HP's spec. Just because Adaptec uses their 24-port chip in their own 16- and 24-port controllers, and uses their 8-port chip (PMC8020) in their 8-port controllers, does NOT prevent HP from using the 8-port chip, plus an internal expander chip, in the HP P822 24-port controller. [I have amended my original posting accordingly.] Please accept my apology, @audiophonicz .
Regarding cascading of expanders, no problem for sequential loads, but max iops might drop a couple %. (I.e., negligible, but not immeasurable.)
2) did you miss this one?
Not really--just felt it would complicate things to then bring bandwidth trade-offs into the mix when he hadn't even mentioned what HDDs were in play. However, now that I don't believe the P822 can achieve the Adaptec 24-port performance, it loses some of its "appeal".
3) of course it does, I dont see why it wouldnt be.

4)I dont see where he specifically stated HW RAID. Rather he used the term "RAID card" and given the language barrier and general questions being asked, I assumed he was using the term ambiguously rather than specifying RAID vs HBA, which is why I stated IF hes going to use it for zfs, and why I would have gone with the other HP branded card.
Yeah, lots of fuzziness in there. Like:
tell me if have more raid controler is possible make a raid configuration on multiple card simultaneous?
12 hdd from first LFF 420i controler and 16 hdd sff Cage conected to an hp h240 or maybe hp p822?
And create a big matrix raid 50 with all hdd
 
  • Like
Reactions: audiophonicz

valepe

New Member
Jul 3, 2021
7
0
1
>>EDIT<< (3 days later) Now, I strongly believe that I am incorrect in my (below/original) response to item 1) [Bad assumption on my part. I have no reason to question the HP specs. The P822 controller does use the SRCv 8x6G chip (PMC8020), which is a 8-port part, and in a 24-port card, "must" be supplemented internally by an expander part. Hence, the P822 will not achieve the 6.5 GB/sec throughput of the Adaptec 24-port cards (probably maxing @4.5 GB/sec [SAS2 x2]).
Found this article: PMC Supplies RAID-On-Chip Controllers For HP ProLiant Gen8 Servers And Smart Array Adapters
Is it useful?
 

audiophonicz

New Member
Jan 11, 2021
17
16
3
@UhClem Its all good, bud. no apology necessary, not like you cussed me out or anything lol. more than enough correcting yourself and updating the rest of us with your new findings. prolly wont ever use an Adaptec chip, but good to know either way. and for the record, I was just joking around about missing #2 lol

Not that our home labs will ever get there, but on the cascading expanders bit: the more you slice, the worse performance and stability suffers. we have MD-1280s, 84 drive DAS drawers running 4x Xyratex backplane expanders behind a 5th Dell EMM all controlled by a single 8 channel 9207-8e HBA and, well, thats how I learned that Dell Support needs mgmt signoff to warranty replace more than 3 drives a month on the same S/T.
 

valepe

New Member
Jul 3, 2021
7
0
1
Anyone use this HP backplanes attached to an HP raid card like P420, P822 on a Proliant server?
Which experiences do you have with iLO?
Will it monitor drives and manage caddy leds? Or throws warnings of some type because it can't handle correctly the backplane?

Thanks a lot
 
Last edited:

fatmeat

New Member
Nov 5, 2021
4
1
3
If you want to power the G8 drive cage's backplane using an HP server PSU with a mining breakout board which only has 6-pin PCIe power outputs then you'll have to either buy or make custom cables. The simplest way to do this (if you're comfortable re-pinning connectors) is to buy PCIe to EPS12V adapter cables and change the order of the pins in the EPS12V end to match the pinout contained in the first post of this thread. If you can't find PCIe to EPS12V adapter cables which are long enough for your intended solution then you can add some standard PCIe to PCIe extension cables, which you'll plug in to the breakout board first, then you add your re-pinned PCIe to EPS12V cables onto the end of those. That's the path I took when setting mine up this way.

Keep in mind: if you plug in a standard PCIe to EPS12V cable into the backplane of the G8 the pin order is wrong and you may do irreparable damage to your backplane and potentially any drives connected to it. If you change the pin order of the connectors make sure you follow the first post to match the pins.
Thanks, as hardware are arrived and I did made some progress, I will share some pics later on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amp88

Dythmar

New Member
Dec 23, 2021
13
9
3
Only reason it had a ? Is cuz it has a wire in there on the cable that came with the sff g8 backplane. I left it blank. No issues at boot so must have something right(at least nothing on fire ;P). Haven't gotten past booting, will be getting it running this weekend and will try to update either here or in my server build thread. Thanks for confirming its visually correct!
 

Dythmar

New Member
Dec 23, 2021
13
9
3
Only reason it had a ? Is cuz it has a wire in there on the cable that came with the sff g8 backplane. I left it blank. No issues at boot so must have something right(at least nothing on fire ;P). Haven't gotten past booting, will be getting it running this weekend and will try to update either here or in my server build thread. Thanks for confirming its visually correct!
For an update, this seamed to deliver power, but i was hearing a noise like an upset cap would make, and the drives would not spin up, i disconnected these 8 drives and backplane for now in favor of getting everything else functional.
 

valepe

New Member
Jul 3, 2021
7
0
1
Only reason it had a ? Is cuz it has a wire in there on the cable that came with the sff g8 backplane. I left it blank. No issues at boot so must have something right(at least nothing on fire ;P). Haven't gotten past booting, will be getting it running this weekend and will try to update either here or in my server build thread. Thanks for confirming its visually correct!
G8 sff backplane? Which type and code do you have?
I just bought a chassis with a 8x sff cage and the backplane has a 10 pin connector not a (double) 8 pin ones like the lff backplane.
 

jtaj

Member
Jul 13, 2021
62
34
8
Looking at the connector on the backplane its like this:
Yellows are +12v, Grey are GND. A true server also provides 3.3v on one of the pins, but for just the cage this was not needed.
Credit to @amp88 for figuring out the pinout out.
hey question, the picture of the pin out of yellow/gray in the image you linked, is that the pin out on the backplane, or pinout on the cable connector to the backplane?