Cheapest way to interconnect SFP+ and 10Gbase-T?

[altano]

On my home network everything is currently hard-wired via Cat5e but my hardware supports:

• A storage server w/ 2 x 10gbe SFP+ (SuperMicro x10SDV-7TP4F)
• An iMac with 1 x 1gbe
  
• ~8 other devices (Windows PCs, media streamers, etc) on 1gbe

1gbe is totally sufficient for everything on my network except that I would like to start doing 4k video editing on the iMac and host the files on my storage server. Since my camera outputs video with a bitrate of 500Mbps I figure I'm going to need 10gbe to make editing feel snappy. What is the cheapest switch that has:

• 1 x SFP+ port (10gbe to my server)
• 1 x 10GBase-T port (10gbe to the iMac via a Sonnet 10GBase-T to Thunderbolt 2 adapter)
  
• ~10 x 1gbe to everything else?

The cheapest switches I can find that have both SFP+ and 10GBase-T are ~$1K and have way more 10GBase-T ports than I need (e.g. this TP-LINK). Adding in the ~$500 10GBase-T adapter brings the cost of doing this up to $1.5K. Meanwhile a 16x1gbe + 4xSFP+ switch only costs $130.

Is there a cheap way to do this?

 

[j_h_o]

I'd consider
MikroTik (or related switches) and MikroTik

 

[altano]

I'd consider
MikroTik (or related switches) and MikroTik

Interesting, so the MicroTik S+RJ10 can convert an SFP+ port into a 10GBase-T port and you're suggesting that I stick this adapter into one of the SFP+ ports on my switch and then run my ethernet cable between that and the iMac, right?

Any idea if using such an adapter would incur a performance penalty?

 

[Evan]

I am sure you have thought about it but if that’s your only use case then maybe a thunderbolt connected NAS would be an alternative or just use local SSD as a staging and put the files on NAS when finished.

Just thinking of cost was a concern which seems not, I know this is a less ‘fun’ option.

Easy 10G solutions at the low end still seems so far away, only the new iMac Pro comes with a multigigabit LAN interface but that’s a very expensive machine.

 

[altano]

I am sure you have thought about it but if that’s your only use case then maybe a thunderbolt connected NAS would be an alternative or just use local SSD as a staging and put the files on NAS when finished.

I actually had not considered this! The server and the iMac are on opposite ends of the house so I'd have to run a new cable. Given the cost of 10GBase-T-to-Thundbolt adapters, this might be the only cost effective solution. Thanks for making it.

 

[fohdeesha]

I actually had not considered this! The server and the iMac are on opposite ends of the house so I'd have to run a new cable. Given the cost of 10GBase-T-to-Thundbolt adapters, this might be the only cost effective solution. Thanks for making it.

I believe he meant a thunderbolt connected NAS on your imac desk, the thunderbolt cable length limit is around 10 feet, so there's no way you'd be able to run it across the house.

If it were me I would just spend the money on a thunderbolt 10gbe adapter that had SFP+ ports for fiber, or put in a 10gbase-T copper intel NIC in your storage server so it's on 10gbe copper and not SFP+. In both those scenarios you're no longer trying to find weird switch models that have both copper and SFP+ 10gbe. If you can get them both on SFP+, then like you noted, 10gbe becomes incredibly cheap (especially if you need to add more clients/servers)

 

[fohdeesha]

Also I'm not sure what camera you're shooting with or if you've tested editing it natively on your Imac, but if it's what I'm assuming (cinema DNG raw), it's going to be incredibly un-snappy, especially on an imac (your storage backend will be the least of your worries). Generally you would ingest these and convert to a mezzanine codec like Cineform or prores, which you would then use to edit with. If you meant 500mbps with a little "b", as in 50MB/s, then disregard

 

[altano]

Also I'm not sure what camera you're shooting with ... If you meant 500mbps with a little "b", as in 50MB/s, then disregard

I'm not sure I'm following: I really did mean 500Mbps, but what is higher than 500Mbps? I've never heard of a bitrate video codec shooting at higher than 500Mbps before :O

I'm not the video editor of the house, so I don't know much about the subject, but it's a Canon EOS 5D Mark IV that shoots 4K .mov files (Motion JPEG Codec) which, from some googling, appears to be 500Mbps. Converting to an intermediate codec that would work better over 1gbe sounds very interesting. I'll have to ask the person who's editing the video to investigate if he can do that. Thanks for the pro-tip!

 

[fohdeesha]

Ah ok, that's quite manageable then. That's a full two streams just over 1gbe. Proper cinema cameras shoot quite a bit more, open-gate arriraw off an Alexa is around 11MB a frame, (2,100mbps at 24p), cameras shooting to uncompressed cinemaDNG (Blackmagic cams for instance) are around 5000mbps @ 4k (or 500MB/s, which is what I thought you meant in your original post)

But anyway yes, the 5d mark IV shoots to motionJPG, which is quite an old and inefficient codec. If you can batch convert all your shot files to ProRes 422LT, you'll cut that data rate in half or more, and because the codec is so much more efficient, you're not going to lose any quality or information doing so. ProRes is also a joy to edit with (given that's literally what it was designed for)

I'm a windows guy so I can't recommend any macOS batch convert software, but I'm sure handbrake will do it

 

[nry]

Besides the options mentioned above, only alternative switch option I can think of is the Ubiquiti ES‑16‑XG but given the poor reviews I have read on this, not too sure this is the solution I would recommend!

If you haven't already purchased the Sonnet 10GbaseT enclosure would you consider SFP+?

I have 10GbE on my 2014 rMBP using a Sonnet SON-ECHOEXPSEL PCIe enclosure with a Myricom 10G-PCIE-8B-S

In my hackinish I use a Myricom 10G-PCIE2-8C2-2S

Both cards work fine with Mac OS, but the performance leaves a lot to be desired! Think it typically maxes out around 600MB/s which is around 5GBps?
I have tried tweaking it but with little success.

 

[Aluminum]

Got any free slots in the supermicro?

I usually push people to fiber but your case actually might make more sense to go 100% copper.

10GBase-T cards are $100 for the aquantia multi-gig and ~$125 for a dual port X540 pulled out of a dell (malaysia parts, not a chinaclone) on fleabay.

Netgear has some pretty cheap multi-gig switches: Multi Gigabit 5 Speed Switches | High Speed Internet Switches | NETGEAR
The ms510tx seems to fit your use case the closest and cheapest. It has 1 SFP+ and one 10GBase-T port so you can bridge different media through it without losing any bandwidth. I have the xs508m as I've picked up a fair number of aquantia ports lately and can still link to my optical network.

If you need extra 1GbE ports past 8 I would just uplink the less important systems off one of those with one of the countless ~$25 unmanaged switches. Otherwise you'll probably spend a lot more and have a louder model as well.

 

[Kev]

Check out my post and we can talk about budget.

https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-base-t-promise-technology.17931/#post-176833

 

[fohdeesha]

Check out my post and we can talk about budget.

https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-base-t-promise-technology.17931/#post-176833

is that not the copper version? He already has that, that's the problem

 

[altano]

is that not the copper version? He already has that, that's the problem

I actually haven't bought anything yet!

Thank you all for the excellent suggestions. To summarize them:

• Circumvent the need for 10gbe by using a mezzanine codec (e.g. ProRes 422LT) for my videos that requires less bandwidth to make it trivial to do over a 1gbe connection. Make use of Adobe Premiere Proxies.
• Use local HD (or a thunderbolt-connected NAS local to the iMac) as scratch and only archive to my home server.
• Use a MicroTik SFP+-only switch with a S+RJ10 10GBase-T transceiver to convert one of the SFP+ ports to 10GBase-T. Get a Sonnet 10GBase-T box (like @Kev is selling) for my iMac.
• Get a 10GBase-T card for my server. Get a 10GBase-T switch. (i.e. switch to all copper). Get a Sonnet 10GBase-T box.
  
• Get a ms510tx Netgear switch which is basically exactly what I was originally asking for in this thread: relatively cheap SFP+ and 10GBase-T in one switch. Get a Sonnet 10GBase-T box.
• Run fiber directly between server and iMac. "buy a 10GBASE-SR optic for each end (about 10 dollars each), then a run of multimode fiber (about $20 for 100 feet). OM2 fiber (as linked below) is good for 80 meters with SR optics, 300 meters with OM3" Then use a SFP+ version of the Sonnet box to connect to iMac.

These are all great suggestions but have pros/cons I'll have to think through. For example, even though with @fohdeesha 's help I think I think I can solve this without 10gbe, I kind of still want 10gbe since this is just the latest thing to make me want faster transfer speed. Going all copper is simple but is the most expensive option and eats up another PCIE slot on my server. Etc.

 

[fohdeesha]

Oh, if you haven't bought anything yet, just buy the SFP+ version of the 10gbe thunderbolt interfaces. Then you can connect your mac directly to your storage server's existing NIC over cheap fiber. If you want to connect more clients in the future, then as you pointed out switches with 10gbe SFP+ are as cheap as ~$100

 

[altano]

Oh, if you haven't bought anything yet, just buy the SFP+ version of the 10gbe thunderbolt interfaces. Then you can connect your mac directly to your storage server's existing NIC over cheap fiber. If you want to connect more clients in the future, then as you pointed out switches with 10gbe SFP+ are as cheap as ~$100

As in, use a direct-attached-copper SFP+ cable to go all the way from the Mac to the SFP+ Sonnet box? Interesting option. I already have Cat5E running between the two but there's no reason I couldn't add some more cabling. Looks like DAC has a range of 10m though from some quick googling?

 

[fohdeesha]

No, just use actual fiber, it's cheap. If your mac sonnet box has SFP+, and your storage server has SFP+, just buy a 10GBASE-SR optic for each end (about 10 dollars each), then a run of multimode fiber (about $20 for 100 feet). OM2 fiber is good for 80 meters with SR optics, 300 meters with OM3 (as linked below)

JDSU PICOLITE PLRXPL-SC-S43-22-N 10GB Ethernet 850nm SFP+ Transceiver 275xAvail | eBay
30m, 10Gb Duplex Multimode 50/125 OM3 Fiber Patch Cable LC/LC, Aqua | eBay

Depending on what 10gbe interfaces/thunderbolt box you buy they might require a certain vendor of SFP+ optic, in which case you would just buy that vendor, or buy an OEM optic flashed with that vendor from FiberStore for example

 

[Geekness07]

“The cheapest switches I can find that have both SFP+ and 10GBase-T are ~$1K and have way more 10GBase-T ports than I need (e.g. this TP-LINK). ”

Really agree with this, I find one 10Gbase-t switch in an blog is FS S3700-24T4S, but it comes with QSFP+ port, not SFP+, which is definitely not suitable for your network.

 

[altano]

For anyone seeing this in the future, I am just getting back to this project now and I settled on the Netgear GS728TX which can be had for $600 new on Amazon, ~$400-600 new on eBay, and ~$200 used on eBay. It's 28 ports, 24x1GBASE-T, 2xSFP+, 2x10GBASE-T.

Seems like exactly what I want, gives me flexibility in the future, I don't have to worry about transceiver compatibility or anything, and didn't break the bank. *shrug*

 

[Occamsrazor]

Another option, unmanaged....
10GbE Switch: QSW-1208-8C - Features
10GbE Switch: QSW-804-4C - Features