Best HBA for DS4246 ?

[1rich]

Hi I am considering building 100+ TB nas with a DS4246 from ebay and bunch of hdds. My main question is what HBA will give me best performance+reliability+ease of install ? The HBA will be in a HP DL380 G7 or G8 running freenas.

 

[1rich]

I got a recommendation from another forum for LSI SAS 9207-8e. Can anyone confirm any experiences of this card with the DS4246 ?

 

[gregsachs]

I have not explicitly used that one, I run a 9286-8e, but that is a pci 3 sas-2 HBA, should be just fine. You need a SFF-8088-QSFP+ cable, such as this one:

Amazon.com: QSFP (SFF-8436) to MiniSAS (SFF-8088) DDR Hybrid SAS Cable, 100-Ohm, 1-m(3.3ft): Computers & Accessories

Buy QSFP (SFF-8436) to MiniSAS (SFF-8088) DDR Hybrid SAS Cable, 100-Ohm, 1-m(3.3ft): Mini-SAS Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[1rich]

Any 2008/2208/2308 chipset will do for you my friend.

So you could get a 9207-8e or similar. It will be in IT Mode and work well. :.)

Thank you ! if the machine hosting the HBA is a storage server (e.g. with 14 bays itself) would you advise one HBA card with both internal and external ports or two cards - one with internal the other with external ports ?

 

[1rich]

thanks sounds reasonable, HP DL380e seems to have 6 pci slots, so i should be able to easily the 10gb nic and 2 hba's for internal drives. Later if I added the DS4246 with 24 drives - how many further hba cards would be required ? more than one ?

 

[TrumanHW]

Howdy ... I've been a bit unclear on what a DS4246 (and other NetAPP shelves) DO.
Do they just provide:
- Redundant (failover) paths
- Hot swappable drive slots
- Connectivity choices to HBA(s) (with external ports)..?

Or do they provide any performance advantages for the array..?
Or is there more to it than even that ..?

Are there any ways to swap out their fans with quieter fans, PWM, higher quality ball bearings, etc ...?


Thanks!

 

[gregsachs]

Howdy ... I've been a bit unclear on what a DS4246 (and other NetAPP shelves) DO.
Do they just provide:
- Redundant (failover) paths
- Hot swappable drive slots
- Connectivity choices to HBA(s) (with external ports)..?

Or do they provide any performance advantages for the array..?
Or is there more to it than even that ..?

Are there any ways to swap out their fans with quieter fans, PWM, higher quality ball bearings, etc ...?


Thanks!

The IOM in a shelf is a SAS expander, that is basically it. It is a self contained external drive enclosure, with access to both ports of a SAS drive. One IOM goes to each port. Add power supply(s), HBA, and go. Drives are typically hot swap, if your adapter and OS support that. You should be able to do multipath as well if your OS supports it. Connectivity requires a QSFP connector on the IOM, to whatever SAS connector your HBA uses.
There are also the filer units, which are intended to be the "heads", and run netapp's own system. Stay away from those if you want JBOD expansion.

 

[TrumanHW]

The IOM in a shelf is a SAS expander, that is basically it. It is a self contained external drive enclosure, with access to both ports of a SAS drive. One IOM goes to each port. Add power supply(s), HBA, and go. Drives are typically hot swap, if your adapter and OS support that. You should be able to do multipath as well if your OS supports it. Connectivity requires a QSFP connector on the IOM, to whatever SAS connector your HBA uses.
There are also the filer units, which are intended to be the "heads", and run netapp's own system. Stay away from those if you want JBOD expansion.

Thank you very much.

While I was researching those damned DS4246s... I realized you're GOING to spend like $500 min bc these people are just raping us on the FOCKING CADDIES!!! Sure you can buy the system cheap, but by the time you get a complete unit with the caddies..? They're GOING to be loud, they're going to have high latency ... FOCK it. I finally came to the conclusion ... I'm done with spinning drives except for very limited circumstances of recoveries or RARE 2ndary backups.

I'll keep my pair of T320 for their incredibly utility in cloning RAID arrays I recover; otherwise...?
A FULL DS4246 can't even match the throughput of a SINGLE SSD ... let alone, the IOPS! SILENTLY, with fewer watts...

Were i able to get a good deal on an LTO7..? I'd've already pulled the trigger on this.
(Lowering my TCO by "selling" tape backups of my client's complete data in some contractual periodization.

Again, thanks for helping me finally make the decision.
I've always wanted a nice array that had the performance to satiate me ... but the cost is just TOO HIGH to justify.

At that, given the speed at which I could rebuild a lost NVMe SSD (ESPECIALLY if I find an LTO7 at a good price) it's a no-brainer.

 

[gregsachs]

Thank you very much.

While I was researching those damned DS4246s... I realized you're GOING to spend like $500 min bc these people are just raping us on the FOCKING CADDIES!!! Sure you can buy the system cheap, but by the time you get a complete unit with the caddies..? They're GOING to be loud, they're going to have high latency ... FOCK it. I finally came to the conclusion ... I'm done with spinning drives except for very limited circumstances of recoveries or RARE 2ndary backups.

I'll keep my pair of T320 for their incredibly utility in cloning RAID arrays I recover; otherwise...?
A FULL DS4246 can't even match the throughput of a SINGLE SSD ... let alone, the IOPS! SILENTLY, with fewer watts...

Were i able to get a good deal on an LTO7..? I'd've already pulled the trigger on this.
(Lowering my TCO by "selling" tape backups of my client's complete data in some contractual periodization.

Again, thanks for helping me finally make the decision.
I've always wanted a nice array that had the performance to satiate me ... but the cost is just TOO HIGH to justify.

At that, given the speed at which I could rebuild a lost NVMe SSD (ESPECIALLY if I find an LTO7 at a good price) it's a no-brainer.

Note that can you can get the 2.5" version, the DS2246, complete and ready to go at an ok price:

Netapp DS2246 Storage Expansion Array 24 Bay 2.5" SAS Trays 2x IOM6 Controllers | eBay

Netapp DS2246 Storage Expansion Array. If you are planning on using this expansion array for a server(like Dell/HP/Supermicro - Not Netapp). We have the following Enterprise 2.5" SAS Hard drives available.

www.ebay.com

(I paid $90 shipped a few years ago);
Rest of your comments apply, though...

 

[TrumanHW]

Note that can you can get the 2.5" version, the DS2246, complete and ready to go at an ok price:

Netapp DS2246 Storage Expansion Array 24 Bay 2.5" SAS Trays 2x IOM6 Controllers | eBay

Netapp DS2246 Storage Expansion Array. If you are planning on using this expansion array for a server(like Dell/HP/Supermicro - Not Netapp). We have the following Enterprise 2.5" SAS Hard drives available.

www.ebay.com

(I paid $90 shipped a few years ago);
Rest of your comments apply, though...

I'm gonna guess that's a 2.5-inch variant (only) -- vs one of the models which can do 24x 2.5 or 12x 3.5-inch.
And while you're right, 24x 2.5-inch would TOTALLY work for me...
that utility would be predicated on SFF-8639 slots ... which have x4 bandwidth!
Which'll cost " ~$89 delivered for 24 slots with 24 caddies"
... in fifteen years or so. (as I'm sure you already inferred) lol.


I guess for those instances I need 3.5-inch slots I can just suffer with the T320
PS -- I have a 1.8GHz QC (E5-2400 v2) ... in the T320 ... which I idiotically had
DEDUPE enabled for the first year or so ... and want to RELEASE my data from
being stored with that switch --- which is just as slow to get off as to get on ...
Do you think it'd be worth buying the fastest-cheap-clock-speed compatible CPU..?
Or even using one of my MPs which has a 3.33GHz (12c but that's not the issue I think)...
to get the data off the array..? Thanks again!

 

[gregsachs]

I'm gonna guess that's a 2.5-inch variant (only) -- vs one of the models which can do 24x 2.5 or 12x 3.5-inch.
And while you're right, 24x 2.5-inch would TOTALLY work for me...
that utility would be predicated on SFF-8639 slots ... which have x4 bandwidth!
Which'll cost " ~$89 delivered for 24 slots with 24 caddies"
... in fifteen years or so. (as I'm sure you already inferred) lol.


I guess for those instances I need 3.5-inch slots I can just suffer with the T320
PS -- I have a 1.8GHz QC (E5-2400 v2) ... in the T320 ... which I idiotically had
DEDUPE enabled for the first year or so ... and want to RELEASE my data from
being stored with that switch --- which is just as slow to get off as to get on ...
Do you think it'd be worth buying the fastest-cheap-clock-speed compatible CPU..?
Or even using one of my MPs which has a 3.33GHz (12c but that's not the issue I think)...
to get the data off the array..? Thanks again!

I don't know if faster clock would benefit. I was able to get a fully functional ds2246 (2=2u, 24=24 slots, 6=6gb sas-s) for $90 shipped several years ago. My understanding is that most ds2246 units would support SAS-3 with an IOM12 module in place of the IOM6. Have not seen any of those cheap, but have not used.
You can also look for xyratex 1235 units, which are 12x3.5, and there are a number of other enclosures marketed by Microsoft, Dell, and others that were all OEM from xyratex.

 

[TrumanHW]

I don't know if faster clock would benefit. I was able to get a fully functional ds2246 (2=2u, 24=24 slots, 6=6gb sas-s) for $90 shipped several years ago. My understanding is that most ds2246 units would support SAS-3 with an IOM12 module in place of the IOM6. Have not seen any of those cheap, but have not used.
You can also look for xyratex 1235 units, which are 12x3.5, and there are a number of other enclosures marketed by Microsoft, Dell, and others that were all OEM from xyratex.

So if anyone is as dumb as I -- and they store their data with dedupe enabled, they're data just has to be read at the whole 1-2MB/s ...?? Bare in mind, the CPU in my T320 I just realized how piece-of-shit it really is!

It's not only 1.8GHz, but it's 4c, no HT (no virtual cores) ... and no TURBO..? lol.

And for about $60 I can get a


E5-2450v2 2.5GHZ (3.3 GHz Turbo) with 8-cores (16 threads) -- SR1A9
~$ 50 locally ... (at worst) ... but I'll probably get at least one of the 2470v2 to see if it's any better.


E5-2470v2 2.4GHz (3.2 GHz Turbo) with 10-cores (20 threads)
~$ 90 from overseas ...
~$ 140 locally ...


What does dedupe care most for to actually not be so damned slow..?

(do I have to clone these to SSD or something..) ?? It's just RIDICULOUS SLOW!!

Even when I did internal transfers from it (which some people are surprised as they didn't know there's a way to do internal transfers in FreeNAS) ...