EU ASRock Rack B450D4U-V1LQ5 mATX AM4
- Thread starter Cruzader
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I still have some Trouble figuring out the "Custom" and "Standard" Design you are talking about
.Something like this then (Rectangular Steel Pipe) for SpacerOkay that took a while but I finally pictured all this in my head. Just one thing for our case specifically though, these are ending up in a datacenter facility, so I think they would be pretty upset once they see me bringing in Ikea furniture and wood into their multi-million dollar facility.
Problem will be to drill 42U x 3 Holes and get them to align PERFECTLY.
Unless you have a Vertical Drill Press, you won't be able to do that. Even with a Punching Tool to get started (and some self-drilling Screws, that's what I use because it's MUCH Cheaper than getting the Drill bits broken) and lots of Chainsaw Oil, it's a **** Job to drill 2-3mm Thick Steel
.Not worth losing your Job, that's for sure.
Yeah
. But your Design Quotation isn't going as expected either unfortunately ... Just because it's some Chinese Guy & Factory doing the Job, they will not do it for free. Heck it's easier to Negotiate Prices with Americans than Chinese People really. They don't give any Discount whatsoever .I'd say Steel in general became quite a bit more expensive than a few Years ago.
you mean JUST the Brackets ?
Might NOT be as easy as you think. I have 2 Sets of 2 x SRK21 GLUED (one on top of the other) since I basically had no space for 4 x SRK21.
And since the Side Panels are Screwed in at both Top and Bottom of the Rack, I'd have to take that off anyways. Which is impossible when they are glued on top of each other ...
Wouldn't that be a solution also for you ?
It would be nice if there were LONGER brackets, then we wouldn't need to move the Posts.
Yeah, I would prefer to screw them in.
Why a lot of extra Holes ? I lost you there. Didn't you just want to use the Brackets and the Threaded Rack Strip (in the Middle/Back) with the Brackets ?
I see what you mean
.Unclear what you mean sorry
Yeah, I was actually thinking about that for the Rack StripThe IKEA "LACK" table fits 19" equiipment and is quite cheap
LackRack - Eth0Wiki
wiki.eth0.nl
.But would need to be WAY taller.
LACK Table Feet are definitively too Short, that's why I was thinking a Cabinet Rather.
The TOP of the Table is quite Thick, so you cannot really stack lots of these without losing a lot of Space.
And they got quite a bit more expensive compared to say ~ 5-10 Years ago.
Haven't catched up with reading the whole thread, neither did I find anything while searching it.
Have anyone managed to get fan pwm to work in any OS? It registers RPM and seems to work ok with "Smart Control" in BIOS. Haven't found a driver that works for fan readout in the OS though.
System is running Ryzen 7 Pro 3700.
Ran
Ran
Ran
I know some of these drivers are more or less a clusterf*ck due to manufacturers not caring, but I'll keep looking. I'll gladly let BIOS control the CPU fan but the case fans I'd rather control myself.
Have anyone managed to get fan pwm to work in any OS? It registers RPM and seems to work ok with "Smart Control" in BIOS. Haven't found a driver that works for fan readout in the OS though.
System is running Ryzen 7 Pro 3700.
Ran
sensors-detect and the recommended driver is NCT6775.
Code:
Now follows a summary of the probes I have just done.
Just press ENTER to continue:
Driver `k10temp' (autoloaded):
* Chip `AMD Family 17h thermal sensors' (confidence: 9)
Driver `nct6775':
* ISA bus, address 0x290
Chip `Nuvoton NCT5532D/NCT6779D Super IO Sensors' (confidence: 9)modprobe nct6775 and at least I got some more entities when running sensors
Code:
sensors
k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Tctl: +28.0°C
Tccd1: +25.8°C
nct6779-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
Vcore: 96.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +1.74 V)
in1: 224.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
AVCC: 3.33 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
+3.3V: 3.33 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in4: 384.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in5: 216.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in6: 240.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
3VSB: 3.39 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
Vbat: 3.20 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in9: 0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
in10: 944.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in11: 304.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in12: 224.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in13: 200.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in14: 248.00 mV (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
fan1: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
fan2: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
fan3: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
fan5: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
SYSTIN: +27.0°C (high = +0.0°C, hyst = +0.0°C) ALARM sensor = thermistor
CPUTIN: +27.5°C (high = +80.0°C, hyst = +75.0°C) sensor = thermistor
AUXTIN0: +92.0°C sensor = thermistor
AUXTIN1: +29.0°C sensor = thermistor
AUXTIN2: +98.0°C sensor = thermistor
AUXTIN3: +102.0°C sensor = thermistor
PCH_CHIP_CPU_MAX_TEMP: +0.0°C
PCH_CHIP_TEMP: +0.0°C
PCH_CPU_TEMP: +0.0°C
PCH_MCH_TEMP: +0.0°C
PCH_DIM0_TEMP: +0.0°C
PCH_DIM1_TEMP: +0.0°C
TSI0_TEMP: +28.0°C
intrusion0: ALARM
intrusion1: ALARM
beep_enable: disabledpwmconfig again but it stops since it can't find any working fan sensors.
Code:
Found the following devices:
hwmon0 is k10temp
hwmon1 is nct6779
Found the following PWM controls:
hwmon1/pwm1 current value: 255
hwmon1/pwm2 current value: 255
hwmon1/pwm3 current value: 255
hwmon1/pwm4 current value: 255
hwmon1/pwm5 current value: 255
Giving the fans some time to reach full speed...
Found the following fan sensors:
hwmon1/fan1_input current speed: 0 ... skipping!
hwmon1/fan2_input current speed: 0 ... skipping!
hwmon1/fan3_input current speed: 0 ... skipping!
hwmon1/fan5_input current speed: 0 ... skipping!
There are no working fan sensors, all readings are 0.I don't think you looked
.Tried, failed, and at least with a 5700X (probably all 5000 Series CPUs) all RPMs read Zero.
And with
nct6775 you apparently cannot set RAW values directly, instead it relies on its internal "Lookup Table".But with Zero RPM read in GNU/Linux, I think they forgot to wire some Signals or the BIOS is completely broken on that side as well.
Only Option that I managed was to use the BIOS Fan Control.
Alternatively, if you want to install some Raspberry Pi Pico / ESP32-S3 to emulate Keyboard & Mouse (like e.g. @dbram is doing), you might add a Fan Control Feature on the microcontroller, although you will likely need to design a PCB with like 5 or 6 Fan Headers, then let it control via USB (it's an additional Failure Point though: what do you do if USB Communication fails ? You need to implement a Fail-Safe and spin all Fans to 100% if USB Communication / WiFi Control goes down).
Not a solution for me because these are only a small number of total servers going into the cabinet. It's definitely a different challenge by itself since some severs have their own adjusting rails between around 20-29" which requires 29" between posts, some servers are 31" static, some are so long that they hit the PDUs so they can only go above and below PDU, and then of course there's these servers too which would benefit from shorter posts but make everything else much worse.
There are some workaround we can do but that's only the first problem, the second is that the accessibility is worth it to us, up to a point, to be able to quickly slide them in and out. I'm not opposed to removing screws each time they have to be worked on, however, once we combine it with the workaround, it could mean more difficult getting to them when there's also other full depth equipment in there, and lots of cables on the left and right side in the back. We have power, ethernet going to these, plus another ethernet for the KVM, and other servers 2-4x ethernet or fiber each, multiple switches, patch panels, a huge router. And network equipment has to go in specific spots for efficient setup.
So there is probably more we could do if absolutely required, I just have to see at what point it is just worth it to eat an additional $X cost per server just to have a better setup.
Longer brackets exist, their price difference also exists. Unless you find them cheap. So basically, if you are going to be paying almost the same as a proper solution, it makes less sense to just mount them like that in the back.It would be nice if there were LONGER brackets, then we wouldn't need to move the Posts.
Yeah, I would prefer to screw them in.
Why a lot of extra Holes ? I lost you there. Didn't you just want to use the Brackets and the Threaded Rack Strip (in the Middle/Back) with the Brackets ?
I see what you mean
Unclear what you mean sorry
This would actually potentially be a cheap design ordered from China though.
As for what I mean, the small ears aren't just an "L" the also have a small "U" channel on the part that attaches to the server directly (it is not meant to attach to server directly, it is meant for a specific Supermicro rail design, so it attaches to rails, which are a little shorter height.) The depth is not that much though, since rails can fit without issues, this should also fit without issues directly to the server, you are just maybe 10mm~ away from the server when it screws in, and the "U" channel presses against server with that gap in the center where you screw it inn, so you need longer screw.
It 100% lines up though with that chassis you purchased, I verified it, as in the "hole" in the bracket is aligned the same way, and you are able to screw it directly into the server WITHOUT making any holes.
The "standard" design I was speaking of is what I linked, or maybe I forgot to link it.I still have some Trouble figuring out the "Custom" and "Standard" Design you are talking about
So this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FJG4QCQ/
My "custom" design, there are multiple, but one simple one is the same as the "standard" that I linked except it is one piece, static length, and also has a bend away from the server for additional strength, so it will not warp at all under weight. It is also cold-rolled exposed steel, zinc plated, and a specific thickness. Over-engineered (by a non-engineer, so if I under-engineer it, I'm afraid I will screw up.)
What BIOS version?
Yeah I had someone mess up an order on processors, and sell me something they misread, so 5500 instead of 5600 (obviously, my experience with Cezanne hasn't been amazing, so I wanted 5600 specifically for further orders.) They offered me a $5 discount on my NEXT order and would not replace it with some alternative (3600 or 3700X combo) that cost 2% more.Heck it's easier to Negotiate Prices with Americans than Chinese People really. They don't give any Discount whatsoever
I guess it does feel slightly nice knowing their margins are so low they cannot budge at all, so maybe they just give you the best possible price from the very beginning.
I finally found a supplier of passive heatsinks in China and placed the order. Not as cheap as yours, those guys were definitely just trying to save money not storing them in their warehouse
I think you got the best deal on those that will ever exist. I'm pretty sure I ended up paying almost as much for the shipping as the heatsinks though since I needed them sent by air.
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Yeah, in a Commercial Setup, I think the Time you already invested is probably already worth much more than the cost of the Official Rails.
On eBay Europe I could find some Rails for 20 EUR / Pair plus Shipping, but only like 3 or 4 Pairs available.
Nothing Cheap in Europe
.I think that's what they use inside e.g.
(I don't mean the entire Shelf, just thee L-profile Bracket with 3 Holes
)So the Supermicro Rail goes inside the Bracket for say 5cm or so, that's what you mean by "U" ? Must be, because otherwise you cannot fasten then together.
I think I'll probably understand better when they arrive here
.Nice, good to know, thanks
.You never linked it
. Thanks, now it's a bit more clear what you wanted to do .So if you over-engineer like I do every Time I do Mechanical or Civil Engineer I think it can hold the Weight of a Tank on it
.I think it's irrelevant at this Point. The Fan Control seems to be messed up on 3000 Series as well, based on his Report. You can read the Fan Speed RPM only in BIOS and tune the Fan Curve there using the
Smart Fan Method as I explained before.However, even though you detect the Chip in Linux and can change some Configuration (Lookup Table, Static/RAW Value, Control Mode, etc) by accessing them over
/sys Interface, it has absolutely no Effect (tried to do a Kernel Compile Stress Test to warm it up) and in Linux Fan RPM read 0 RPM for all Fans.Still sucks than this Motherboard BIOS is **SO** messed up
.I probably got the only Good Deal on these Heatsinks (besides their RAM)I finally found a supplier of passive heatsinks in China and placed the order. Not as cheap as yours, those guys were definitely just trying to save money not storing them in their warehouse
.Another User ordered at 7 EUR / each for 12 and I went super low-Ball Offer for 3 EUR / each for 25 (plus Shipping)
.
On eBay Europe I could find some Rails for 20 EUR / Pair plus Shipping, but only like 3 or 4 Pairs available.
Nothing Cheap in Europe
I deleted my response to this and I'm rewriting it because it got way too long.
Short version, I found some rails, which end up being around $11.50 each shipped (per set, so per server) at a high quantity. I'm looking into probably ordering them. They look good but blah blah blah.
It could potentially be a viable option for you as well if you do not settle on some other solution, but every version of it has some caveats. Just let me know if you're interested at all and I can explain. I'm not interested in trying to sell you rails, just to help out though only if needed, I'd be willing to just sell them at cost or even a small discount to make it work for your budget (it'd just take a long time to arrive one way or another.)
You say nothing's cheap in Europe then link this, that's actually a pretty good price, I'm tempted to try to look for something like that instead now for the remaining servers I don't have a chassis for and just use that as a chassis.(I don't mean the entire Shelf, just thee L-profile Bracket with 3 Holes
Kind of funny how they can sell you that for 18.90 Euros but rails are 20 Euros, limited availability, plus shipping cost.
EDIT -- I don't know why I even said that about finding something like that here, I know it doesn't exist, I've probably looked at every single item like it in existence, we actually needed one for network equipment (what it's meant for) and I had to go with some other option for $30-40.
Well I'd like to hear if you found something Interesting
.No Updates from my side concerning the Rails. On the other Hand, I received 26 x Supermicro CSE-512 Chassis on a half Pallet Today
.Uh ? How is that a Chassis ? That's just a Shelf ... And for me to use these, would mean a Space "Efficiency" of 50%, since every 1U Chassis would require a 1U Shelf basically ...You say nothing's cheap in Europe then link this, that's actually a pretty good price, I'm tempted to try to look for something like that instead now for the remaining servers I don't have a chassis for and just use that as a chassis.
Something like this, although only supported on one Side, would probably be much better in Terms of space Efficiency:
LogiLink Rackhylde Grå | Stort udvalg, billige priser og hurtig levering
SF1C45G | 4052792046687 | LogiLink - Rackhylde - lysegrå, RAL 7035 - 1U - 19" | --> Bestil nu hos Compumail ApS
compumail.dk
Probably much bigger Market and Competition, whereas Rails are usually tied to a specific Supplier/Manufacturer that can dictate the Prices however they want, since there is no Competition ?
Digitus & Logilink are usually quite Good & Cheap.
They also sell Rails e.g. this one, but quite expensive IMHO
Inter-tech might also be an Option as Manufacturer, although their IPC 1U Rails has bad Reviews on Amazon.de.
Otherwise lots of availability in the second Hand Market with e.g. PIO and probably possible to negociate Price quite a bit, although no Supermicro:
Or more generally:
Although since you are in the US and can maybe negotiate a lot with Suppliers, then maybe this one can be an Option if you buy in bulk, they might be able to give you lots of Discount:
Supermicro rack rail set 4 post for CSE-512 CSE-513 CSE-512L half depth server | eBay
UnixsurplusCom - Supermicro System Configs. Compatible : CSE-512, CSE-513, CSE-512L half depth server. Unixsurplusnet is a division of UNIXSurplus, a large Server dealer in Silicon Valley, California.
www.ebay.com
L2.09
That's what mine came with and I haven't tried updating yet.
Since Hetzner seem to have used their own verison of a rack chassis and only used one fan in that I bet they've just used the Smart Controll or set a static setting for that one fan in BIOS. Best bet is probably a separate fan controller, at least if one would like to control the fans based on anything other than CPU temp. Now, finding that controller with good Linux support is another story...
I'm lucky and have a basement with stable cool temps so I'm not that concerned right now at least.on motherboards with BMC the FANs are usualy controlled by BMC/IPMI.
on this board runs not the usual Firmware but i think it controls the FANs as well.
strings i found inside:
on this board runs not the usual Firmware but i think it controls the FANs as well.
strings i found inside:
Code:
NuNuNuU-Boot 2009.01-dirty (å一 04 2020 - 22:03:56) AST2510 A1 HW ver 0.10
@bootargs=root=/dev/ram rw
bootcmd=bootm 00040000
baudrate=115200
ethaddr=00:C0:A8:12:34:56
eth1addr=00:C0:A8:12:34:57
ipaddr=192.168.0.188
serverip=192.168.0.106
gatewayip=192.168.0.1
netmask=255.255.255.0
bootfile="all.bin"
channel %d = %d
[Smart fan] PWM channel %d: duty cycle = %x
Count detect Fan No[%d][%d]
Detect Fan No[%d]
Fail Fan No[%d]
volt[%d], gpio[%d]
Read %08lX mismatch, desired %08lX, get %08lX
Polling %08lX timeout : desired = %08lx, read = %08lx
Error(aspeed_i2c_read): bus[%x] addr[%x]
Error(aspeed_i2c_write): bus[%x] addr[%x]
Error(aspeed_i2c_block_read): bus[%x] addr[%x]
Error: bus%d, addr [%02X] on read mode
Error: bus%d, addr [%02X] on write mode
Warning: the bus %d is disable
Error while write pwm IC reg 0x75
Error while write pwm IC reg 0x5e
Error while write pwm IC reg 0x3c
Error while write pwm IC reg 0x3b
Error: bus%d, addr [%02X] on sensor[%d]
Error: bus%d, addr [%02X] on sensor[%d].
Error: PECI bus
Error: PECI bus.
ALERT: TEMP I2C SENSOR [%d][%lx]
ALERT: TEMP CPU SENSOR [%d][%lx]
ALERT: Volt SENSOR [%d][%lx]
ALERT: Tacho SENSOR [%d][%lx]
enable WDT
Error CPU %d address [%x]
Error: DTS20 fan table
Error: PECI device return code [%lX]
DTS20 peci error! index = %xWhere/How did you find tihs ?
I also suspected that it was (at least on the Motherboard that came with AST2500, aka WITH BMC) the BMC Managing the Fans (as it's usually the case on managed Systems, e.g. Supermicro IPMI) and that they didn't (re)wire the Electrical Signals somehow.
I still cannot explain why we can see the Fan RPMs in BIOS but NOT in O.S. Poor Linux Support maybe, like some of these Sensors Chips are ?
Did anybody test with Windows and see if they can read the Fan RPMs ? Not sure what is actual these Days on Windows (I don't use it at Home at all anymore), I used
speedfan a LONG Time ago.load BMC Firmware in a Hex editor.
B450D4U-V1L_L1.24.00.bin
edit: the AST2510 is called EC (Embedded Controller)
there is probably a I2C multiplexer you are aware of.
maybe the BIOS sends cmd's to the BMC.
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I thought the AST2510 was just VGA, no BMC at all.
And in the early Pages of this Thread somebody attempted to flash a newer Version of the AST2510 Firmware but it was apparently not possible to update.
I was under (maybe under the false) impression that IPMI and BMC were the same Thing.
But indeed this Article sums it up pretty well
no, IPMI is a feature of some BMC Firmware.
and a GUI is not specified in IPMI.
@b3rrytech: not sure if it's 100% for the Fans but I could see this in the Manual
Probably you can do something via I2C e.g. I²C Bus:
Probably you can do something via I2C e.g. I²C Bus:
Just throwing an Idea Out for what possibly also @dbram is up to.
I was thinking that we could use the 5VSB (and GND, obviously) to power the Raspberry Pi Pico from the AUX Panel Connector. In theory the PSU should be able to provide that and, unless somebody put a fuse there, then it should be doable to just connect those Pins to the 40-Pin GPIO header of the Raspberry Pi Pico or a Raspberry-like SBC:
I was still considering, now that I think we all decided to just go with HDMI -> USB Adapter since it's much cheaper, to use a small SBC on each System to make it somewhat more independent.
Some relatively cheap Options plus some EUR for microSD Card (~ 7-8 EUR for 32-64 GB High Endurance, smaller Capacities NOT available or worth it, although if you tune your Linux Image for very low Writes - basically need to disable all logging - you might get come for say 5 EUR or so):
- Radxa Zero 3E (Ethernet): 19 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa Zero 3W (Wireless): 18 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa S0 (Wireless): 13 EUR for 0.5GB RAM Version
- Radxa Rock 3C (Ethernetr + Wireless): 23 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa Rock 2A (Ethernet+Wireless): 18 EUR for 1GB RAM Version (running Armbian with OLD Bullseye Kernel on Debian Bookworm / Ubuntu Noble)
- Radxa Rock 2F (Wireless): 12 EUR for 1GB RAM Version (running Armbian with OLD Bullseye Kernel on Debian Bookworm / Ubuntu Noble)
Cheapest USB-C to 100M Ethernet + USB Hub seems to be something like this at around 2 EUR: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006997763024.html
And if you use the Rock 2F you might get something like this (~ 3 EUR) instead to get Gigabit Speed: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008488010628.html
So far I got the Radxa Zero 3E which booted out of the Box with Armbian built from source on Ubuntu Noble (current Branch), but obviously I didn't factor in that I had the wrong USB-C to Type A Adapter. The Adapter was too large so I cannot connect USB-C Power if I plug in the HDMI Capture Card on the Zero 3E.
The Radxa Rock 3C I didn't test yet, but should be similar, without the USB-C Adapter needed and with more spacing between the Ports .
All in all with MicroSD Card it will be around 19 EUR ... 25 EUR each System (plus VGA 2 HDMI and HDMI 2 USB Capture Card and Optional USB to Ethernet Adapter).
I was thinking that we could use the 5VSB (and GND, obviously) to power the Raspberry Pi Pico from the AUX Panel Connector. In theory the PSU should be able to provide that and, unless somebody put a fuse there, then it should be doable to just connect those Pins to the 40-Pin GPIO header of the Raspberry Pi Pico or a Raspberry-like SBC:
I was still considering, now that I think we all decided to just go with HDMI -> USB Adapter since it's much cheaper, to use a small SBC on each System to make it somewhat more independent.
Some relatively cheap Options plus some EUR for microSD Card (~ 7-8 EUR for 32-64 GB High Endurance, smaller Capacities NOT available or worth it, although if you tune your Linux Image for very low Writes - basically need to disable all logging - you might get come for say 5 EUR or so):
- Radxa Zero 3E (Ethernet): 19 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa Zero 3W (Wireless): 18 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa S0 (Wireless): 13 EUR for 0.5GB RAM Version
- Radxa Rock 3C (Ethernetr + Wireless): 23 EUR for 1GB RAM Version
- Radxa Rock 2A (Ethernet+Wireless): 18 EUR for 1GB RAM Version (running Armbian with OLD Bullseye Kernel on Debian Bookworm / Ubuntu Noble)
- Radxa Rock 2F (Wireless): 12 EUR for 1GB RAM Version (running Armbian with OLD Bullseye Kernel on Debian Bookworm / Ubuntu Noble)
Cheapest USB-C to 100M Ethernet + USB Hub seems to be something like this at around 2 EUR: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006997763024.html
And if you use the Rock 2F you might get something like this (~ 3 EUR) instead to get Gigabit Speed: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008488010628.html
So far I got the Radxa Zero 3E which booted out of the Box with Armbian built from source on Ubuntu Noble (current Branch), but obviously I didn't factor in that I had the wrong USB-C to Type A Adapter. The Adapter was too large so I cannot connect USB-C Power if I plug in the HDMI Capture Card on the Zero 3E.
The Radxa Rock 3C I didn't test yet, but should be similar, without the USB-C Adapter needed and with more spacing between the Ports
.All in all with MicroSD Card it will be around 19 EUR ... 25 EUR each System (plus VGA 2 HDMI and HDMI 2 USB Capture Card and Optional USB to Ethernet Adapter).