Yes, they still have only CCD temp for CPU, but board started to show other temperatures. Before that, I saw nothing. Will give you output when I start the system.
EU ASRock Rack B450D4U-V1LQ5 mATX AM4
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the 3700x (local) market seems to have dried up ;-) cheapest in Belgium is now 75,- €
there is a 3800x for 70,- € on tweakers.net (Holland)
I thought the 5500 is PCIE 3.0, thus 20 pcie 3.0 lanes to use. not a big deal and not relevant if all the pcie cards are 2.0 and 3.0, but important for nvme storage and possible for > 10gbit (dual) NIC's.
Missing, my favorite, the 3700x in the table too, albeit only in 2nd hand availability.
Possibly also the 3800x. I've seen and old YT video comparing 3700x and 3800x, very similar only the TDP seems different. Hear say states that this is mostly the binning differences, and the real power usages (idle, average and peak) should look very similar. OC in these B450 is not my primary goal anyhow.
Your calculations are very similar to what I drew up a couple of weeks ago.
The 3100 in second hand really is a bargain price /performance ratio. you can find these <= 20,- EUR nowadays.
4 cores 'only', but still SMT capable, a bit lower cache, but goog enough for an always on node.
I could even power it (quite decently) with a pico psu and 75Watt Leicke power supply, leading to <20 watt idle power usage.
For my six B450 nodes, I'm now at: 5x 3700x, 1x 3600
and I also went for a few GB of unbuffered ECC ram mentionned in this thread. thanks for the hint.
Including a new table that was compiled by a gpt mainly for the used market cpu's because I didn't save my excel at the time
| Model | Cores | Threads | Base Clock (GHz) | Boost Clock (GHz) | TDP (W) | CPUMark Score | Used Price (€) | Perf per € | Perf per W | New Price | Perf per € new |
| Ryzen 3 3100 | 4 | 8 | 3,6 | 3,9 | 65 | 11000 | 25 | 440 | 169 | - | - |
| Ryzen 5 3600 | 6 | 12 | 3,6 | 4,2 | 65 | 17800 | 45 | 396 | 274 | - | - |
| Ryzen 5 3600X | 6 | 12 | 3,8 | 4,4 | 95 | 18000 | 45 | 400 | 189 | - | - |
| Ryzen 7 3700X | 8 | 16 | 3,6 | 4,4 | 65 | 22500 | 60 | 375 | 346 | - | - |
| Ryzen 7 3800X | 8 | 16 | 3,9 | 4,5 | 105 | 23500 | 80 | 294 | 224 | - | - |
| Ryzen 9 3900X | 12 | 24 | 3,8 | 4,6 | 105 | 32000 | 120 | 267 | 305 | - | - |
| Ryzen 9 3950X | 16 | 32 | 3,5 | 4,7 | 105 | 38000 | 170 | 224 | 362 | - | - |
| Ryzen 5 5600X | 6 | 12 | 3,7 | 4,6 | 65 | 22000 | 100 | 220 | 338 | 97,51 | 226 |
| Ryzen 7 5700X | 8 | 16 | 3,4 | 4,6 | 65 | 27000 | 140 | 193 | 415 | 118,86 | 227 |
| Ryzen 7 5800X | 8 | 16 | 3,8 | 4,7 | 105 | 28500 | 150 | 190 | 271 | 162,59 | 175 |
| Ryzen 9 5900X | 12 | 24 | 3,7 | 4,8 | 105 | 35000 | 200 | 175 | 333 | 258,78 | 135 |
| Ryzen 9 5950X | 16 | 32 | 3,4 | 4,9 | 105 | 40000 | 280 | 143 | 381 | 338,55 | 118 |
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PCIE 4.0 yes, SMT unfortunately not, tweakers.net has a nice 'pricewatch' page, with detailed specs listed.
Hi guys, I registered here some time ago as I found the community interesting, this thread helpful, and what I meant to do was give you guys some information and updates on our end since we're going to be using a lot of these boards to offer some affordable dedicated servers to our customers.
I haven't had as much time as I thought I would, but I want to make the first reply here in case it ends up helping anyone at all. I've only read until about page 20 and then got busy.
* These are confirmed decommissioned Hetnzer boards.
* For those of you having issues with getting VGA output, it means you got them from a batch that has a specific BIOS that disables VGA. I assume the same can also potentially be said about any USB issues you guys have had on these as well.
* We purchased multiple batches, so if you got these earlier, I believe they are a higher likelihood of being from the batch that did not have VGA problems. Later batch, a good amount of them have this problem.
* To fix your VGA issue, you'd need to add a graphics card, likely use a 1700X or 2200G as that's what the vendor confirmed it works 100% on, and a dedicated graphics card temporarily to flash it to a non-Hetzner version of the BIOS.
What we've confirmed so far:
* They definitely work with 4x 32GB UDIMM ECC (3200MHz --> 2666MHz, Micron Chips) on Ryzen 2600. If anyone's interested I'll try to go back and figure out the exact version this was on. I noticed some people talking about ECC issues specifically with 5000 series after BIOS update. Keep in mind if you are flashing these, you are likely going away from a specific Hetnzer BIOS to some version provided from ASRock so you may lose some modifications (which may have been important) by Hetzner.
* I had some other bullet points written out which I've since lost, I'll try to remember which laptop and which notepad file that was saved to and reply back. Some recovered bullet point from memory: I did get one or two M.2 Gen3 showing up in BIOS with PCIe risers.
If there's anything specific you want me to try let me know. I have both old batches and newer batches, we have a total of 88 of these boards, and we have both non-ECC from 4GB to ECC 32GB, 2600, some 2xxxG and 5500 processors. Technically some 3xxx but I have to find them in inventory as we put them away and decided 3xxx didn't make sense over 5xxx due to pricing as some people mentioned.
I'll try to remember and keep track of what went from what batch to what BIOS version, etc, as I reply.
I haven't had as much time as I thought I would, but I want to make the first reply here in case it ends up helping anyone at all. I've only read until about page 20 and then got busy.
* These are confirmed decommissioned Hetnzer boards.
* For those of you having issues with getting VGA output, it means you got them from a batch that has a specific BIOS that disables VGA. I assume the same can also potentially be said about any USB issues you guys have had on these as well.
* We purchased multiple batches, so if you got these earlier, I believe they are a higher likelihood of being from the batch that did not have VGA problems. Later batch, a good amount of them have this problem.
* To fix your VGA issue, you'd need to add a graphics card, likely use a 1700X or 2200G as that's what the vendor confirmed it works 100% on, and a dedicated graphics card temporarily to flash it to a non-Hetzner version of the BIOS.
What we've confirmed so far:
* They definitely work with 4x 32GB UDIMM ECC (3200MHz --> 2666MHz, Micron Chips) on Ryzen 2600. If anyone's interested I'll try to go back and figure out the exact version this was on. I noticed some people talking about ECC issues specifically with 5000 series after BIOS update. Keep in mind if you are flashing these, you are likely going away from a specific Hetnzer BIOS to some version provided from ASRock so you may lose some modifications (which may have been important) by Hetzner.
* I had some other bullet points written out which I've since lost, I'll try to remember which laptop and which notepad file that was saved to and reply back. Some recovered bullet point from memory: I did get one or two M.2 Gen3 showing up in BIOS with PCIe risers.
If there's anything specific you want me to try let me know. I have both old batches and newer batches, we have a total of 88 of these boards, and we have both non-ECC from 4GB to ECC 32GB, 2600, some 2xxxG and 5500 processors. Technically some 3xxx but I have to find them in inventory as we put them away and decided 3xxx didn't make sense over 5xxx due to pricing as some people mentioned.
I'll try to remember and keep track of what went from what batch to what BIOS version, etc, as I reply.
Yes, works on 5500 after BIOS update, from old batch I received that didn't have VGA issues updated to latest BIOS posted on this thread. I do not remember if it was tested with ECC or non-ECC. I'll try to reply back with more specific information as I did this a few weeks ago and have terrible memory. It was definitely 100% done, somehow, on some version with 5500 specifically.
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Maybe I need to also try another one (Combo CBS) which seems to enable A LOT of More Options ...
Full Section:
So something such as (for
Is the
Code:
grep -ri "QuestionId: 0x9," File_DXE_driver_CbsSetupDxeSSP_CbsSetupDxeSSP_body.fbd.0.0.en-US.ifr.txt | grep -i "VarOffset"
Numeric Prompt: "Combo CBS", Help: "No help string", QuestionFlags: 0x10, QuestionId: 0x9, VarStoreId: 0x5000, VarOffset: 0x20, Flags: 0x20, Size: 8, Min: 0x0, Max: 0xFF, Step: 0x0
Code:
SuppressIf
EqIdVal QuestionId: 0x9, Value: 0xFF
Not
End
Numeric Prompt: "Combo CBS", Help: "No help string", QuestionFlags: 0x10, QuestionId: 0x9, VarStoreId: 0x5000, VarOffset: 0x20, Flags: 0x20, Size: 8, Min: 0x0, Max: 0xFF, Step: 0x0
Default DefaultId: 0x0 Value: 254
End
EndSo something such as (for
File_DXE_driver_CbsSetupDxeSSP_CbsSetupDxeSSP_body):
Code:
setup_var.efi AmdSetup(0x5000):0x20=0xFFNot as I think it is ? So Suppress if QuestionId(0x9) != 0xFF ?
There's a weird middle area where it's not high enough to use 5000 series, but the VGA issue appears with the 2000 series. Since the vendor mentioned using 1000 and 2000 series to test, perhaps it then does work with 3000 series.
Yep, verified it works with a 3900X on BIOS versions
Interesting, so far none of mine have come with 2.09
But based on what I skimmed around page 20, it does seem like 5000 series loses ECC support. They tried figuring it out, not sure how far they got with it. So you might want to look there for that. I'll mess around with it specifically for that and then try to actually gather some useful data and maybe make a chart.
I think the answer on CPU might be 3000 series since I'm pretty sure based on all these context clues as well as what they sold when they sold it, that's likely what they used on these boards. We're trying to go with a combination of 2000 and 5000 series so it'll be extra fun.
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Do you have a contact at ASROCK to ask for a Fix otherwise ? And are you actually owning this Board or just providing general Insights ? I might have missed this, I saw you shared L2.08, L2.09 and L2.12 BIOS Versions with us, but I wasn't sure if you actually owned the Board and are facing / faced the same Issue with 5000 Series CPUs.
I'm really Puzzled that this Motherboard don't support / enable ECC Memory for 5000 Series CPUs where they claim they "support" the CPU ...
I'm really Puzzled that this Motherboard don't support / enable ECC Memory for 5000 Series CPUs where they claim they "support" the CPU ...
As in on that specific older version (L1.02) since it does not yet support 5000 series.
Seems like it begins working on the L1.14 provided a couple pages back (for 2000 series or more specifically 2600.)
Of course I miss the most important context for all of it, I think all my miscommunication is stemming from:
"I've only read until about page 20 and then got busy."
By they I mean you and whoever else was involved with that, which means I read your initial question I replied to completely wrong.
You might get a kick out of this, but due to the fact that I got all of these delivered to the United States, the 5000 series ended up being much more affordable (in the US, bulk pricing, before I cleared all of them out.)
This upset me so much. I'm in the same boat on this and there's pretty much no solution I've found that does not end up costing more than the boards once it's all added up. To be fair the the ASPEED 2500 boards I've seen over the last 5 years cost something like 5-10x more.I'm also busy figuring out how to add KVM (Keyboard, Mouse, Video) to this. It's such a pity that the ASPEED 2510 was used instead of the ASPEED 2500
I've personally leaned toward a multi-unit system, older, and scouring around for dongles. Not perfect. Pretty bad actually. But it brings our cost down to theoretically being about $20 per board. I wouldn't do Sispeed over PiKVM especially in your case if they would be the same cost. There's no point. The only thing it has going for it in my opinion is the price, in situations where it might be more difficult or costly to procure the parts for PiKVM.
If you need a chassis and PSU, you should always consider buying a whole server if that does end up being an option. It could actually end up saving you money. This is coming from someone who bought several hundred of them a few years ago, and I probably got 5x the price out of each one by parting it out for different projects and I technically still have a ton of power supplies, motherboards, heatsinks, cables, fans, and rails left over.
Plus you can end up helping some people out in the process like making sure they don't get price-gouged if they need some old board. I noticed people were selling them for like $100 to $200 each and when you need it, you need it, so I sold them for like $30 a piece back when I had time.
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I guess you pulled the same Section from another CBS / File, hence 0x8 instead of 0x9.
I also don't know what QuestionFlags do
That's why I would like to try setting it to 0xFF (255) hence enabling that Menu.
Of course, provided as you said, that there is no Hardware hardcoded Supplementary Condition that we CANNOT bypass.
Got my cpus from China/aliexpress, but servers that i replaced mobos in for mobo+psu i got from US to EU since cheap-ish.
But if buying off the shelf stuff the case+psu will pretty much cost more than the rest for builds like these yeah.
That is mainly why i love the DC input custom formfactor mobos like this one (They are just J5005 celerons tho);
I got just over 100 of that board rented out and they are just stacks of 8 on threaded rods sharing a large power brick per stack, each ready node has been 35-50$ in total cost.
Have not found a ryzen version that is available at scale cheaply yet, but increasingly getting asked if i got ryzens available.
Id assume buying stacks of unspecced/CTO 1U/2U.
When you are buying quantity its down in the 20-50$ area for the full server.
Ive been looking towards these tyans for my next cases, got offered 100pcs for 4500$ including shipping to jetcarrier in US.
A fairly meh dual scalable 8core spec but it has a reusable case and good rating 500w psu.
For just a compute node of mobo/5700x/128gb/2x25gbe and a symbolic nvme for hypervisor.I think you are forgetting the cost of SSDs/NVMe Drives, RAM and NIC
I will not be using these for anything beyond that.
The cost of that is pretty much same as the case/psu id buy off the shelf for it domesticly.
If i had more time id buy a stack of 36lff huaweis or 12lff+2sff cisco/hp.
Gut then and 3d print a new interior layout for a silent price efficient build.
To do a 24lff front and split it on 3 mobos would be cheap/compact while still using large quiet fans.
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So you think that there is such a Check in Place after all ?
My hypothesis was that I just tried to set the wrong VarOffset for the wrong Dxe File (hence I wanted to try with the other 3 VarOffset Values) ...
But what CPU are you running then ? Or you just gave up on ECC entirely ?
humble 6 node setup here:
as for the kvm thing, i was planning in these options for a very low cost setup:
- 4 cases Fractal Core 1100's big midi towers, got a deal on 4 brand new around 14,- a piece,
- not the best case, even for midi towers but good enough for a storage rack
- good for using the stock AMD coolers,
- less risers and adapter cables,
- plain pwm 120mm fans
- Inter-tech 1.5u case,
- removed the 3.5" sata trays and housing
- pico psu and leicke ULL 12v adapter
- 1 Supermicro CSE512 1u, got another 3 cases of these
- with the Gelid 1U cooler,
- very old 1u psu that came with the case. 200w (non-gold unfortunately)
- need to design and 3d print an IO shield that fits, shoulnd't be that hard
- maybe planning a pcb with buttons that fit in the orginal supermicro case for power on buttons and led
- maybe design and 3d print an cpu and memory shroud for better air flow (inspired on the hetzner der bauer video)
- have to see if this combination works for my dual nvme nas with 10gb x710 nic
- pcie4 angle riser,
- pcie4 nvme-x4 nvme-x4 and pcie x8 (x16 slot)
as for the kvm thing, i was planning in these options for a very low cost setup:
- raspberry pi 3 with csi2 interface (got 2 of them already from a previous setup)
- use an old pikvm build, confirmed that it works at least for the hdmi input part
- might have to fork the hdmi capture part, because pikvm (arch) migrated to 64bit support only and I wanted to go the debian route anyhow
- vga to hdmi cable, these are very picky, especially wen entering the bios. got a very cheap vga to hdmi from aliexpress, where only the boot logo for the NIC's PXE is shown, nothing else, no bios, no boot, no post, nothing. according to a video from Techno Tim, who tried something similar on a couple of Supermicro boards, the adapter cables are a bit shady, some work some don't. I ordered one of his recommendations 'Benfei vga to hdmi' and will test with these.
- an HDMI 4 to 1 switch, where I'm hooking into via either infrared or via the command buttons to select the required input. I guess using several boards' vga output simultaneously will be very limited anyhow.
- an alternative would be to do the switching on the VGA side (10,- eur or so on aliexpress) and use only 1 vga to hdmi adapter per 4 nodes.
- also got some old raspberry pi zero (first model), csi2 interface (but slightly different cable)
- similarly, will seriously have to fork the pikvm software to get the pi zero (first edition) up and running. but at least I got them cheap many years ago and could allow one per node in this setup.
- for keyboard / mouse control,
- got 5 or so pi pico (first edition too) lying around that can do USB HID devices
- alternatively the esp32-s3 can do this too, would have to integrate them into a generic pikvm solution
- got a first platform.io build running that echoes keystrokes via mqtt to the usb hid keyboard
I didn't try this Tool before but maybe worth a Shot to see if I missed something: UEFI Editor and GitHub - BoringBoredom/UEFI-Editor: Aptio V UEFI Editor: an alternative to AMIBCP
Indeed a cheap one, but only 1 for every 4 b450 boards with a hdmi 4-1 switch or a vga 4-1, and put the vga to hdmi adapter before or after the 4-1 switch. Only drawback is that you can only view one of them at a time…
It’s basically just TTL (serial) to talk to a device that can do usb hid (simulate mouse and keyboard), you could choose any kind of bridge. I tried Mqtt to usb hid using and an esp32-s3.
You still need something else, such as an usb-hdmi capture or csi2-hdmi capture for the video part.
actually was thinking of something similar since I have 5 or so hp t510 thin clients lying around. USB hdmi is cheaper indeed, 10,- eur or so. Was working quite good in windows at the time, but I had more issues in Linux. I wouldn’t go over serial for keyboard and mouse, and use an usb hid capable esp32 and go over tcp/ip over WiFi to keep costs even lower.
Why esp32-s3 ? It can do usb hid and could be mounted on a (custom) pcb with some opto coupler or transistor to hook into the power / reset buttons and read the power led using the GPIO of the esp32.
The trick is then the combine everything in software as the project above here probably does but over serial over a arduino leonardo board.
Why manually?
just integrate over infrared with ir transmit led of an esp
or
connect the gpio’s to the push button on the hdmi or vga switch.
soldering and software skills required of course and bit of time and effort.
You not having full ebay available and difference in quantities makes it a completely different pricing for you tho.
But if you tell me that there is anyway some hardware encoded Part, how would that work ?
And that would require Patching the BIOS ...
Another Option for those Lazy and Interested could be to request a Custom ROM over at BIOS/UEFI Modding ... But that is NOT free.
Easier would be asking ASRock, but most likely that's also NOT free ...
How you have stated that you cant use global shipping to Denmark?
That you are basicly restricted from the mostly better non-EU based deals than the EU ones for ram/components.
Is that 100eur for one dimm or set of 4?
My average cost for 4x32gb for last 10 nodes is 84eur including shipping/vat by current rates.
23eur for 2x25gbe cards with shipping/vat.
111 eur for 5700x with aliexpress promos/codes.
That combined (+ mobo) is pretty much what id be looking at for case/psu domesticly.
The cases ive been buying earlier at 1000-1300 Norwegian are now almost double that.
Not as big a increase on psus but they have also increased significantly.
Without sharing my alert lists (as im still buying more also) you dont really want to search for "ecc udimm".
Its the sellers that just lists it as any other 32gb ddr4 ecc you want.
Self replying here :
After some browsing on 3D stl sites:
This should be a good starting point for that:
ASRock Rack X470D4U IO Shield for SuperMicro SC512 Series Case by Digital Crunk | Download free STL model | Printables.com
Well I would hope that it persists reboot (but Good Point, I would have to re-read the same Variable from UEFI Shell after Reboot).
Agree it's too late to enable it (BIOS needs to do the Entire Memory Clear Cycle during POST), but IF it survives reboot, then it doesn't really matter. Like ... did you really care that you didn't have ECC in UEFI Shell when you didn't have it to begin with? Important is that you have it AFTER.
My impression was that
setup_var.efi could be impacted when manually changing Settings later on. But I always thought that it survived Reboots.In a side room, as mentioned I’m using the gelid am4 1u fans for the cpu, those hardly make any noise. Doesn’t get very hot even after stress testing. Maybe I’ll add a shroud and an additional 4020 fan for better airflow.
the 1u power supply makes some noise. I’ve replaced the fan on one of them with a Sunon 4020 12v fan, still noticeable but less noise.