anyone running gulftown / westmere

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dragonme

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Apr 12, 2016
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I have a home lab running ESXi on a intel 5520hc mobo with 2 x L5640s

I have stayed on ESXI 6.0 since a test when 6.5 came out showed that while the L5640 would run it, power usage was up and it seemed as if optimizations might have been dropped

anyone running this generation with 6.5 or 6.7 that has done more recent testing on the latest updates?

I dont think I can move up to 7.0 .. the onboard NIC, my older LSI cards, etc I think would all be problematic so likely will have to stay with ESXI 6.xx

thanks
 

T_Minus

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Feb 15, 2015
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Why stay on dual L5640? I assume for RAM only?

A older Xeon E3 V3 like the E3-1270 V3 has much better performance single threaded, pretty much same as multi thread and will idle lower in general.

Another option i3-9100F -- much better single core, multicore near the same, $90 CPU, 64GB capable.
 

dragonme

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Apr 12, 2016
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Why stay on dual L5640? I assume for RAM only?

A older Xeon E3 V3 like the E3-1270 V3 has much better performance single threaded, pretty much same as multi thread and will idle lower in general.

Another option i3-9100F -- much better single core, multicore near the same, $90 CPU, 64GB capable.
off topic.. but

the L5640 is a great processor and highly binned.. if you look at its specs vs power draw its hard to beat..

so ..

1 .. that is what I have .. and pricing out a replacement with at least 24 threads, same or better performance, and same or lower power draw and there are no contenders .. let alone the cost of the new hardware, plus new ram

2 the server that I am running it in is a half depth, 3U unit, and still manages 12 3.5 drive sleds with everything up front except power cord.. so drive replacement and backplane access is all up front... can't find anything like that at the moment and half depth is crucial as my 24U server cabinet is only like 26" deep
 

T_Minus

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Kind-of off topic... but rather useful info to get you on latest ESXI ;) stable, more performance, less power\electric, less heat, etc...

1366 doesn't idle well at all so something with better (lower) power usage is easily obtained. The IPC of a E5 v3 or E3 v3 is a huge boost over that generation. You don't need to match thread-for-thread to get the same, or better performance, and doubling single-thread performance will free-up the CPU for more tasks. All of the CPUs I mentioned above will feel like a race car compared to the one you have. But, if you want to keep with very affordable RAM, high RAM #s, and a big boost to your your multi-core performance while getting a near +50% boost in performance AND dropping power 50% then look at the E5-2650L V3. That's a single CPU that's 12C\24T and rated for 65W. So, approx equal to ONE of your CPUs but with more available multi-thread performance, more single thread performance, on a newer gen that does idle much much better too.

I don't know about your 3U half depth, but could you not use the motherboard from the new setup in your current chassis ?

Anyway just some ideas to remedy the situation :)
 

BlueFox

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the L5640 is a great processor and highly binned.. if you look at its specs vs power draw its hard to beat..
I think most are going to disagree on this. You have a 11 year old CPU that is bested by a modern Atom CPU with a quarter the TDP. That's not even counting the 30W for the 5520 IOH. A modern laptop will be faster than both of your L5640s combined.

You can cheaply upgrade to newer DDR3 platforms if you wish to retain some components. You could go for a single CPU setup that will outperform your existing one, using a fraction of the power.
 

dragonme

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Apr 12, 2016
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Kind-of off topic... but rather useful info to get you on latest ESXI ;) stable, more performance, less power\electric, less heat, etc...

1366 doesn't idle well at all so something with better (lower) power usage is easily obtained. The IPC of a E5 v3 or E3 v3 is a huge boost over that generation. You don't need to match thread-for-thread to get the same, or better performance, and doubling single-thread performance will free-up the CPU for more tasks. All of the CPUs I mentioned above will feel like a race car compared to the one you have. But, if you want to keep with very affordable RAM, high RAM #s, and a big boost to your your multi-core performance while getting a near +50% boost in performance AND dropping power 50% then look at the E5-2650L V3. That's a single CPU that's 12C\24T and rated for 65W. So, approx equal to ONE of your CPUs but with more available multi-thread performance, more single thread performance, on a newer gen that does idle much much better too.

I don't know about your 3U half depth, but could you not use the motherboard from the new setup in your current chassis ?

Anyway just some ideas to remedy the situation :)

Screen Shot 2021-01-07 at 2.30.11 PM.png


AES performance is abysmal if these benchmarks are to be believed

in the real world however my current system ... with 8 spinning drives, 9 VMs up and running PLUS VCenter VM running their normal load I am pulling 160w at the WALL ... server is at about 20% compute load if I have lots of file movement or media transcodes going obviously that changes but 98% of the time the server is at 20%

I really cant see spending ANY money to upgrade at the current time... other than to be on a more modern platform

this server runs a ZFS file server for both ESXI to run on as well as my data pools, a security camera system, a media server, openVPN server, pihole, home automation server, several desktop instances etc...

you cant save me enough at the wall to make up the cost of replacing the system provide I can find a dual CPU board (or single for that mater) that will work in my half depth chassis, with a 12 drive backplane sitting on top of the board, the cpu under it has to run on a 1u cooler. my current setup uses a couple low RPM quiet 80mm fans pulling air from the back and in the server cabinet is nearly silent by server standards
 

BlueFox

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The AES thing is wrong. No CPU does 1.25TB/s AES calculations. Any newer CPU will be faster than the L5640 there.

I also wouldn't focus so much on the "L" CPUs. They may have lower TDPs, but that just limits the upper end of performance. Idle and performance per watt is essentially the same. You can pick up an E5-2678v3 for all of $70, which will outperform the E5-2650Lv3.

As for your requirements, single CPU motherboards are going to be smaller than your existing dual CPU one and should have no problem fitting. A Supermicro X10SRi-F goes for about $120 at auction on eBay for example.
 
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dragonme

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The AES thing is wrong. No CPU does 1.25TB/s AES calculations. Any newer CPU will be faster than the L5640 there.

I also wouldn't focus so much on the "L" CPUs. They may have lower TDPs, but that just limits the upper end of performance. Idle and performance per watt is essentially the same. You can pick up an E5-2678v3 for all of $70, which will outperform the E5-2650Lv3.

As for your requirements, single CPU motherboards are going to be smaller than your existing dual CPU one and should have no problem fitting. A Supermicro X10SRi-F goes for about $120 at auction on eBay for example.

its not the size of the mobo.. its the fact that the drive shelf essentially packages in on top of it in a 3U form factor that mean that the cpu/ram of at least 1cpu has to be 1U .. the l5640 runs just fine with a 1U passive heat sink, and drawing air from the 2 back wall 80mm fans ... I cant have the noise of 1u screamer fans in my office...Screen Shot 2021-01-07 at 3.11.54 PM.png
 

BlueFox

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1U passive heatsinks can be had for any socket.
 

dragonme

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1U passive heatsinks can be had for any socket.
yes but the CPU has to operate within the thermal constraints of a 1u PASSIVE heat sink. .again.. I will not put a screamer on it...
and I have yet to find a 1u on-cpu heatsink/fan combo that doesn't sound like a diesel turbo
 

dragonme

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jumping baby jesus people .. I AM NOT interested in changing server hardware at the moment.. the compute density vs noise vs power consumption currently meets my needs and will not commit resources to replacing it right now...

in the time I have been arguing these points I could have brought my server down, installed the latest 6.7 with updates and benched it for myself... which apparently I will have to do...
 
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dragonme

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I think most are going to disagree on this. You have a 11 year old CPU that is bested by a modern Atom CPU with a quarter the TDP. That's not even counting the 30W for the 5520 IOH. A modern laptop will be faster than both of your L5640s combined.

You can cheaply upgrade to newer DDR3 platforms if you wish to retain some components. You could go for a single CPU setup that will outperform your existing one, using a fraction of the power.
@Patrick @BlueFox

ok fox and patrick...

go ahead and find me a cpu / mobo combo that will provide me equal or better for running multiple low latency workloads ... single threads must have a passmark equal to or greater than the l5640 as these single threads must be able to provide 1080p transcodes that my current setup provides for

AES performance again, equal or better so that VMs that are requiring encryption services dont bog down when given single CPU threads in esxi

have equal or greater PCIE lanes so the IO intensive esxi media server / file server running zfs on multiple pcie LSI cards remains as performant or better


while we are on storage my current mobo has 6 SATA connectors that are passed through to be used for a slow data pool, a LSI intel daughterboard card with 8 channels that your replacement won't be able to use .. and an LSI 4e4i card that will have to move over because it attacheches my backup shelf and provides a high speed ssd based zfs pool for VMs

I paid 180 bucks for the chassis, 12 drive bay, 2 l5640 cpus and 48GB memory ... go ahead and find me a replacement that will do all that ... not cost me MORE than what this cost.. and SAVE me enough electricity to pay it off...

my current system running all VMs at nominal workload only pulls 150-160 watts.. not exactly breaking the bank... and while I agree that the more modern systems are much better at ZERO workload completely idle.. I dont have a single friend or colleague that has a system that is using CONSIDERABLY less WATTS at nominal workload.. a server is never truly IDLE

oh.. and it has to fit my current chassis.. I dont have the room to run a full depth 24U server cabinet in my office.. half depth only...
 

dragonme

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Apr 12, 2016
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@Patrick @BlueFox

ok fox and patrick...

go ahead and find me a cpu / mobo combo that will provide me equal or better for running multiple low latency workloads ... single threads must have a passmark equal to or greater than the l5640 as these single threads must be able to provide 1080p transcodes that my current setup provides for

AES performance again, equal or better so that VMs that are requiring encryption services dont bog down when given single CPU threads in esxi

have equal or greater PCIE lanes so the IO intensive esxi media server / file server running zfs on multiple pcie LSI cards remains as performant or better


while we are on storage my current mobo has 6 SATA connectors that are passed through to be used for a slow data pool, a LSI intel daughterboard card with 8 channels that your replacement won't be able to use .. and an LSI 4e4i card that will have to move over because it attacheches my backup shelf and provides a high speed ssd based zfs pool for VMs

I paid 180 bucks for the chassis, 12 drive bay, 2 l5640 cpus and 48GB memory ... go ahead and find me a replacement that will do all that ... not cost me MORE than what this cost.. and SAVE me enough electricity to pay it off...

my current system running all VMs at nominal workload only pulls 150-160 watts.. not exactly breaking the bank... and while I agree that the more modern systems are much better at ZERO workload completely idle.. I dont have a single friend or colleague that has a system that is using CONSIDERABLY less WATTS at nominal workload.. a server is never truly IDLE

oh.. and it has to fit my current chassis.. I dont have the room to run a full depth 24U server cabinet in my office.. half depth only...
@Patrick
and while I am at it... Pat.. I remember when servethehome was actually about HOME users and reviewed and discussed setups for HOME and SMALL BUSINESS .. now your just a shill for enterprise.. not a single article on the home page in years that actually talks to the title of the website of serving the home...

rant out
 

T_Minus

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Feb 15, 2015
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You asked a question, it was answered. Even home users are using CPUs from 5 years ago not 10+.

I never intended to provide you a replacement that saved you $\power, but instead was within your current power usage range or lower and was a very affordable upgrade in general. While, with keeping with this post would work fine with new ESXI thus solving your problem, reducing power, and keeping cost low. You can of course buy a 2697 V3 if you want MORE performance, but you said you were happy with what you had, so that's what I based on my suggestions on.

You are only fooling yourself if you think dual 1366 would be better than a single E5 V3.

You can find a $100-150 E5 single CPU motherboards if you watch for deals. Buy a CPU that's $50-70 and sell your parts and buy the RAM you need and come out 'even' with a system that will be much better performance and lower power\heat.

It appears though that to summarize no one is running the older hardware and a hardware upgrade would be advised ;)
 

NablaSquaredG

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I'm lucky that I recently got rid of my last Westmere server for a good price...

Seriously: Westmere is ancient. Not worth any effort or money.
 
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TLN

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I also wouldn't focus so much on the "L" CPUs. They may have lower TDPs, but that just limits the upper end of performance. Idle and performance per watt is essentially the same. You can pick up an E5-2678v3 for all of $70, which will outperform the E5-2650Lv3.
I have quite contrary experience. 2618Lv3 stayed super cool and was faster than 2683v3 mainly because of higher frequency. Granted there're less cores, but I was measuring with single VM with consistent core -count.
I managed to upgrade to 2698v3 (16 cores): fast, but runs hotter.
 
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dragonme

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Apr 12, 2016
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You asked a question, it was answered. Even home users are using CPUs from 5 years ago not 10+.

I never intended to provide you a replacement that saved you $\power, but instead was within your current power usage range or lower and was a very affordable upgrade in general. While, with keeping with this post would work fine with new ESXI thus solving your problem, reducing power, and keeping cost low. You can of course buy a 2697 V3 if you want MORE performance, but you said you were happy with what you had, so that's what I based on my suggestions on.

You are only fooling yourself if you think dual 1366 would be better than a single E5 V3.

You can find a $100-150 E5 single CPU motherboards if you watch for deals. Buy a CPU that's $50-70 and sell your parts and buy the RAM you need and come out 'even' with a system that will be much better performance and lower power\heat.

It appears though that to summarize no one is running the older hardware and a hardware upgrade would be advised ;)
the question I asked was simply .. has anyone tested the latest esxi 6.5 and or 6.7 builds on westmere EX to see if power optimizations were made... period
 

dragonme

Active Member
Apr 12, 2016
282
25
28
You asked a question, it was answered. Even home users are using CPUs from 5 years ago not 10+.

I never intended to provide you a replacement that saved you $\power, but instead was within your current power usage range or lower and was a very affordable upgrade in general. While, with keeping with this post would work fine with new ESXI thus solving your problem, reducing power, and keeping cost low. You can of course buy a 2697 V3 if you want MORE performance, but you said you were happy with what you had, so that's what I based on my suggestions on.

You are only fooling yourself if you think dual 1366 would be better than a single E5 V3.

You can find a $100-150 E5 single CPU motherboards if you watch for deals. Buy a CPU that's $50-70 and sell your parts and buy the RAM you need and come out 'even' with a system that will be much better performance and lower power\heat.

It appears though that to summarize no one is running the older hardware and a hardware upgrade would be advised ;)
sell your gear.. you just said it was too old and worthless... so make up your mind...