Any other Plex to Emby migrants?

[pricklypunter]

Given that the plex host is open source and rasplex is also, would it not then be feasible to strip all that spying guff from it and build your own implementation? I'm no programming guru, but if it's open, surely it can be morphed into something that runs locally and still allows remote access, without touching plex.tv at all. Maybe I'm way off base here, perhaps the logging is not performed at the server level, but rather from the clients, which are not open sourced. If that is the case, then what we really need are better clients

 

[bitrot]

I am considering switching to Emby, but just like rubylaser, it would be a major PITA to get my less technical savvy users to learn a new client (took them long enough to get going with Plex...). That is the major obstacle really. And going by my own limited experience with the various Emby clients, the IOS apps looked a bit buggy at least, but that may have changed by now.

Thing is, the Plex clients themselves, especially the new V2 Windows one, is rather buggy and anything but reliable either (fullscreen seems broken on my HTPC). Plus, as I've actually always prefered Kodi to Plex on the Client side (HTPC - mobile apps is a different issue), the better integration of Emby and Kodi is actually the strongest selling point of Emby for me, it could really be worth the hassle mentioned earlier. Because the PlexKodiConnect Plugin for Kodi, based on the original Emby one, doesn't sync reliably.

 

[ttabbal]

I think that's a bit that people don't really understand well. De-Identified data, isn't. There are a number of ways to take that so-called anonymous data and reconstruct it. That's only becoming easier with the big data platforms and very high speed processing becoming more mainstream. How much that matters to you might not be the same as someone else, but it is something to be aware of that a lot of people aren't. They just trust that the "anonymous" data can't be traced to them because they are told that. I agree, Plex logging the data is problematic. I'm a little surprised some EU states haven't gotten involved, since they have actual privacy laws. I'm not sure there's much they could really do if Plex doesn't have an office there though.

The thing is, Emby seems to be moving that direction as well. To verify payment status they hit an Emby owned server. It's not really a big leap to start sending "metadata" along for the ride. They might not require an always-on connection, but they definitely do hit their server.

I doubt the rasplex guys would participate in this, so I expect it's server side. Is PMS open source? I was under the impression it is not, at least, not anymore. The client apps are not, so things like the Android and IOS apps would need to be replaced by people using them. I think there are some open implementations around one could start from.

 

[nkw]

It's just such a bad idea for Plex to be having this data stored. All it takes is a slight shift in legislation and a court order and bye bye Plex.

Also, there is precedent for Plex not being able to keep private data private.

 

[IamSpartacus]

I am considering switching to Emby, but just like rubylaser, it would be a major PITA to get my less technical savvy users to learn a new client (took them long enough to get going with Plex...). That is the major obstacle really. And going by my own limited experience with the various Emby clients, the IOS apps looked a bit buggy at least, but that may have changed by now.

Thing is, the Plex clients themselves, especially the new V2 Windows one, is rather buggy and anything but reliable either (fullscreen seems broken on my HTPC). Plus, as I've actually always prefered Kodi to Plex on the Client side (HTPC - mobile apps is a different issue), the better integration of Emby and Kodi is actually the strongest selling point of Emby for me, it could really be worth the hassle mentioned earlier. Because the PlexKodiConnect Plugin for Kodi, based on the original Emby one, doesn't sync reliably.

Trust me I did not want to have to have my users switch either but the hassle of asking them to switch is definitely secondary to privacy and they all understood that and greatly appreciated how quickly I had Emby up and running. Yes the clients are not nearly as polished and some features are missing (like sync from iOS) but they are developing them. I've always catered to my users way more than I probably should and this whole process has really brought to the forefront the fact that I do this on my own time and for free and what my users are getting is a privilege not a right. Half the users are already liking Emby better than Plex anyway. When I sent "the email" I all I got were thank yous from everyone and appreciation. And the users who just fall off because they don't want to switch, I honestly have better things to spend my time worrying about.

 

[bitrot]

I hear you, but my 'users' are basically family members spread all around the world. Yes, I do this in my free time as well and I agree that privacy concerns are serious, but I really like to provide a 'service' that people who are dear to me enjoy, that's basically the motivation of spending insane amounts of money on hardware and storage.

But yes, the privacy issue is a huge one. What I tried to emphasize however is the fact that Plex themselves aren't exactly as 'polished' as they used to be. The backend usually works fine (I don't use DVR), but the client side which I never really liked that much to begin with is deterioating fast. I prefer OpenPHT to the official Plex Client actually (with the exception of my 3D MVC files which it can't play properly as 2D for some strange reason). Kodi is better than both combined (as a client), but the Kodi - Plex integration pretty much sucks, PlexKodiConnect included.

The only thing that still makes me use Plex, besides the issue of teaching my users how to use (install) a new client, is how ubiquitous Plex actually is. The client app is available for pretty much any kind of device or (smart) TV. I don't know if that's the case for Emby? How does the client compatibility look like? My Plex users have all kinds of devices, Amazon FireTVs, Apple TVs, Samsung Smart TVs, Sony Smart TVs (Opera browser), Android clients, iOS clients, you name it. If Emby provides comparable compatibility, switching would be a lot easier.

 

[IamSpartacus]

I hear you, but my 'users' are basically family members spread all around the world. Yes, I do this in my free time as well and I agree that privacy concerns are serious, but I really like to provide a 'service' that people who are dear to me enjoy, that's basically the motivation of spending insane amounts of money on hardware and storage.

But yes, the privacy issue is a huge one. What I tried to emphasize however is the fact that Plex themselves aren't exactly as 'polished' as they used to be. The backend usually works fine (I don't use DVR), but the client side which I never really liked that much to begin with is deterioating fast. I prefer OpenPHT to the official Plex Client actually (with the exception of my 3D MVC files which it can't play properly as 2D for some strange reason). Kodi is better than both combined (as a client), but the Kodi - Plex integration pretty much sucks, PlexKodiConnect included.

The only thing that still makes me use Plex, besides the issue of teaching my users how to use (install) a new client, is how ubiquitous Plex actually is. The client app is available for pretty much any kind of device or (smart) TV. I don't know if that's the case for Emby? How does the client compatibility look like? My Plex users have all kinds of devices, Amazon FireTVs, Apple TVs, Samsung Smart TVs, Sony Smart TVs (Opera browser), Android clients, iOS clients, you name it. If Emby provides comparable compatibility, switching would be a lot easier.

Emby

You can see they have apps for pretty much every platform. My users too are all across the board. The experience is pretty much the same across all apps although some are a little more sluggish than others from what I've seen. The iOS apps seems to lag the most behind in regards to features.

 

[pricklypunter]

Ok, so a little digging and I'm umm...completely wrong!

The host part they refer to, now that I have read a little more in depth about it, is actually the client software layer of plex media player that is responsible for playing and interacting with the media on your machine, nothing at all to do with the server side of things. The other part they refer to as the http part, responsible for rendering said content and presenting the UI is closed source and will be downloaded automagically from them at build time, if you are mad enough to build your own client using their framework. The server is totally closed source with zero plans to ever make it public, from what I have read. So I guess unless someone reverses/ hacks it, there's no chance of stripping out the logging and calling home. The only other thing that can be done is blocking the bad stuff at the firewall, but they could change that every time you connect with a client, if they chose to, I suppose, so probably not a long term plan either.

The future is looking darker already for Plex, at least from my perspective

 

[Kybber]

Thanks for all your responses. I totally hear you, and I completely agree that the principle of not sharing data or metadata is well worth keeping. However, in the modern world there is a balance between which services you want/need and how much data you are willing to give up as "payment" for said services. For instance: Simply because it is such a great and valuable service to me, I happily use Google maps even though I am completely aware that allows Google to track my location which is a /huge/ infringement on my privacy. I would, however, never let another non-map-related service such as Plex do the same. It just wouldn't make sense, and that would make me feel more under surveillance than using Google maps. For the same reason, I would never allow Google to track what I watch on Plex.

It was mentioned that Plex has no business tracking what we're watching on our TVs. But actually they kind of do: Developing software to improve how we watch TV /is/ their business. And in order to do a good job, they need to know how we watch TV. Also, regardless of how well algorithms may identify what you watch based on patterns of rounded-off metadata, I really don't see any of that hold up in any court.

My reason for asking my initial question was simply to find out whether Plex was logging more than what I already knew that they are from their communication. Apparently they don't, and /to me/ their current level of logging is not by itself a good enough reason to switch to Emby. I may switch anyway since tech is cool, but based on the responses here I won't push that job to the top of my todo-list.

Thanks again for responding. Discussing security and privacy is always a good thing, even though the same generalized rants about principles and the same basic arguments always seem to repeat themselves. But that's just because they're excellent arguments

 

[sth]

The fact that we are having this conversation is because of Plex's historic and recent actions and for me, thats enough that my trust in the brand has been damaged. In my humble opinion they are maneuvering in a direction where I suspect this won't be the last time we discuss this. If there wasn't another option I may have little option but to suck it up, but there are, and because of that, I'm out.

 

[IamSpartacus]

It was mentioned that Plex has no business tracking what we're watching on our TVs. But actually they kind of do: Developing software to improve how we watch TV /is/ their business. And in order to do a good job, they need to know how we watch TV. Also, regardless of how well algorithms may identify what you watch based on patterns of rounded-off metadata, I really don't see any of that hold up in any court.

Just because a business would benefit and improve their product from the information they desire, does not give them the right to that data. To a degree I'm OK with them data mining on anything that goes through their servers. Even still, that fact given their sketchy response to the initial announcement and complete lack of follow through on the promises they made are enough to push me off their product. But I still don't believe they have any right to be REQUIRING (not asking) that I send data upstream to them about what I'm doing on my local network that shouldn't even require an internet connection to begin with. If I want to connect a SmartTV to a server in my home, I shouldn't be forced to send usage data upstream about those habits. I'm not streaming internet content so no data should be force to leave my network. Plain and simple for me.

Having said all that, I'm not sitting here telling everyone who uses Plex that they should switch to Emby. This is a personal choice as most are. Based on the direction Plex is going I just find it extremely unlikely I'll ever trust them again. Keep in mind, this is a product I've used since the very early days of Plex and recommended to everyone willing to listen for years and years. I talked about Plex so much people assumed I worked for them. Those days are certainly gone.

The fact that we are having this conversation is because of Plex's historic and recent actions and for me, thats enough that my trust in the brand has been damaged. In my humble opinion they are maneuvering in a direction where I suspect this won't be the last time we discuss this. If there wasn't another option I may have little option but to suck it up, but there are, and because of that, I'm out.

Exactly. Plex is just proving more and more that they just aren't trustworthy. That is what's the most bothersome and alarming.

 

[rubylaser]

plex.tv has been down/erratic for half a day now... Might be time to re-investigate Emby too.

Plex web client getting 500/503 errors • r/PleX
Plex Status

 

[IamSpartacus]

plex.tv has been down/erratic for half a day now... Might be time to re-investigate Emby too.

Plex web client getting 500/503 errors • r/PleX
Plex Status

"This can result in an inability to access the Plex site or use account-related and other services."

In other words, you can't access your local media without re-configuring your server and good luck getting into your server unless you already allowed access without auth previously and don't use Plex home with a pin.

 

[rubylaser]

In other words, you can't access your local media without re-configuring your server and good luck getting into your server unless you already allowed access without auth previously and don't use Plex home with a pin.

Exactly. I have Plex home enabled as well (for parental control for my kids). So, remote users are down and changing users locally doesn't work. How Plex that pushing authentication outside of the local server to a 3rd server is beyond me. That being said, the prospect of setting up and teaching my remote family members (and my kids) to use Emby is daunting.

It angers me that Plex has converted something that has worked so well for me for years into something that breaks when their site is down.

I setup Emby in Docker last night to check it out again. I configured shares, but didn't get beyond that.

 

[IamSpartacus]

Exactly. I have Plex home enabled as well (for parental control for my kids). So, remote users are down and changing users locally doesn't work. How Plex that pushing authentication outside of the local server to a 3rd server is beyond me. That being said, the prospect of setting up and teaching my remote family members (and my kids) to use Emby is daunting.

It angers me that Plex has converted something that has worked so well for me for years into something that breaks when their site is down.

I setup Emby in Docker last night to check it out again. I configured shares, but didn't get beyond that.

I'm with you. Plex has alienated the very people who built it's customer base. Without us passionate media fanatics building beefy media servers, sharing them without friends and family, and constantly pitching their product they would not have the following they have today.

With regard to migrating my users to Emby, I understand your pain. Fortunately it really hasn't been as bad as I imagined. You can choose to use Emby Connect if you want to make life easier which means all the user needs to do is install the Emby app/channel and login with their account. I went the route of directing my users to put my domain name in manually instead so I don't need any dependencies. I'm not sure once the initial connection is made though between Emby Connect account and server that you need any auth to them beyond that.

If you have any questions about Emby like configuring your own SSL cert, etc. just let me know. Happy to help ease the transition.

 

[rubylaser]

I'm with you. Plex has alienated the very people who built it's customer base. Without us passionate media fanatics building beefy media servers, sharing them without friends and family, and constantly pitching their product they would not have the following they have today.

With regard to migrating my users to Emby, I understand your pain. Fortunately it really hasn't been as bad as I imagined. You can choose to use Emby Connect if you want to make life easier which means all the user needs to do is install the Emby app/channel and login with their account. I went the route of directing my users to put my domain name in manually instead so I don't need any dependencies. I'm not sure once the initial connection is made though between Emby Connect account and server that you need any auth to them beyond that.

If you have any questions about Emby like configuring your own SSL cert, etc. just let me know. Happy to help ease the transition.

Thanks! Any advice, directions at this point will be much appreciated. I don't have much time at home any more to fiddle with things like this. That is why I like Plex. It has just worked

 

[moblaw]

I'm with y'all about the Plex privacy concerns. But is Emby really a valid second solution? You guys know, that they are also closed source, now.

I tried Emby, it never completed finding metadata for my entire collection, and while trying to find it, it did consume way to many ressources, like 5-10% of many workers (56cores). But overall, I recon that it's probably streaming wise, equal that of Plx.

The remote pin-code, can be disabled. That way you can still gain access, when their servers go down, but playback will be restricted.

The only real solution I feel, is to stop the "whine" and write your own code. I get it, that we should not be target as a £$ mining group for a bigger cause. But as long as they do not identify us or me as a private person, It does not bother me, that much.
I also think, that wealth should come to those that deserve it, and the Plex team does just that. But they could also surely still gain wealth, without these privacy concerns taking place in the first place.

Windows still does things we dont like
Talk about Facebook?
Ubuntu still does things we dont like, (the desktop version, amazon etc.) in particularly the collaboration with Canonical.

To this day, data-collection is the daily task of almost every company in some way or another. I live with it, and I am ok with it, as long as it does not impact me mentally or physically. Some try to do just that, and we can never be fully sure about: was I impacted, or not?

Code can do so many things no one understands, except the creator. Sure we can monitor and catch some odd behaviours, but not all.

 

[IamSpartacus]

I'm with y'all about the Plex privacy concerns. But is Emby really a valid second solution? You guys know, that they are also closed source, now.

I tried Emby, it never completed finding metadata for my entire collection, and while trying to find it, it did consume way to many ressources, like 5-10% of many workers (56cores). But overall, I recon that it's probably streaming wise, equal that of Plx.

The remote pin-code, can be disabled. That way you can still gain access, when their servers go down, but playback will be restricted.

The only real solution I feel, is to stop the "whine" and write your own code. I get it, that we should not be target as a £$ mining group for a bigger cause. But as long as they do not identify us or me as a private person, It does not bother me, that much.
I also think, that wealth should come to those that deserve it, and the Plex team does just that. But they could also surely still gain wealth, without these privacy concerns taking place in the first place.

Windows still does things we dont like
Talk about Facebook?
Ubuntu still does things we dont like, (the desktop version, amazon etc.) in particularly the collaboration with Canonical.

To this day, data-collection is the daily task of almost every company in some way or another. I live with it, and I am ok with it, as long as it does not impact me mentally or physically. Some try to do just that, and we can never be fully sure about: was I impacted, or not?

Code can do so many things no one understands, except the creator. Sure we can monitor and catch some odd behaviours, but not all.

I'm not a coder, so that's not my area of expertise.

As for Emby, you don't need to disable any remote pin codes if you have your users first connect to your server manually instead of through Emby Connect. No one is saying Emby is better than Plex (though there are a few instances I can say it is). But it's definitely what I'd consider a viable alternative for those who are looking for one.

 

[IamSpartacus]

Thanks! Any advice, directions at this point will be much appreciated. I don't have much time at home any more to fiddle with things like this. That is why I like Plex. It has just worked

Do you use letsencrypt and have a verified domain?

 

[rubylaser]

Do you use letsencrypt and have a verified domain?

I use letsencrypt on my web servers (for clients, colocated at the datacenter), but not on anything at home. I do own a few domains that I have pointed at my house.