Any issues or gotchas with using the 12-bay 6Gb/12Gb SAS cages (Inspur?) that have been on AliExpress for the last year or so? SATA support? Series?

[Prophes0r]

I've been watching these things for about a year.
The prices have been good (~65) but the shipping is usually nuts on them (~$100).
I managed to catch a few when they had free shipping, but those orders always got canceled immediately and the items were updated.

The prices have been steadily dropping though, base price and shipping.
There are now dozens of sellers that have them at ~$80 shipped to the US.

My NAS is already packed full, so I'll likely need somewhere to stick more drives in the next year.
If these things work with SATA drives with no issues, I should probably pick 1-2 up while I can get them.

Example item:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808306227782.html

Anyone have experience with them?
Any known problems with them?

Can I use these with motherboard SATA ports?
My NAS is using a SuperMicro H11SSL-i so it has actual SATA ports not SATA/SAS or the combo ports on the C/NC model.

Is motherboard SATA > SAS expander > SATA drive a configuration that should work?

I also notice that the 12Gb ones using SFF-8643 have 3x connecters?
When I see 2x connectors I assume 1-in 1-out for chaining them.
What's the 3rd connector for? 2-in 1-out?
Do these normally only chain to other units/expanders? Or can you get cheeky with it and hang 4 drives directly off the last port?

 

[nexox]

I have no experience with those backplanes, but if you're going to use a SAS expander you need a SAS HBA. SAS expanders are often (but not always) flexible with the ports, upstream, downstream, breakout, usually you can plug them in wherever.

 

[Prophes0r]

... if you're going to use a SAS expander you need a SAS HBA ...

Is this a general rule with possible excepts based on the expander chip? In which case I should find out more about the chip used in these.
Or is it a hard rule based on the SAS/SATA standards? In which case I should rethink my strategy.

EDIT: After more research, the rule of SAS for upstream devices seems pretty hard. So I'll need to work out if I have PCIe links to spare for a SAS HBA...

 

[Dave Corder]

I have no experience with those backplanes, but if you're going to use a SAS expander you need a SAS HBA. SAS expanders are often (but not always) flexible with the ports, upstream, downstream, breakout, usually you can plug them in wherever.

The Adaptec AEC-82885T SAS expander (from what I've come across) can be picky about which ports are for drives and which ports are for connecting back to the host, and it can vary between firmware versions (including OEM/non-OEM) as well. All the LSI expanders I've used have been completely indifferent on upstream/downstream/breakout.

That said, I just picked up a pair of these cages to replace a Norco 4224 chassis that's basically just being a DAS right now. Hopefully I can sell the Norco for more than I paid for the bare cages and pocket a few extra bucks for my next project...

Anyone know if these cages have activity/locator/fault LEDs that can be controlled via the backplane?

 

[nabsltd]

I also notice that the 12Gb ones using SFF-8643 have 3x connecters?

These units don't have an expander, but are direct attach. Instead of using a fan-out cable, the SFF-8643 directly attaches 4x bays to the 4x lanes on the HBA. You could use a reverse breakout cable to connect to the SATA ports on a motherboard.[/QUOTE]

 

[Prophes0r]

These units don't have an expander, but are direct attach.

That would be just as useful to me, however, I don't think it is the case.

These units are in dozens of listings as "Chainable", "Series", "Serial Connect", or "One port support X drives", with photos showing such.
That doesn't ALWAYS mean they are listed properly, but in this case it seems reasonable.

They also have a rather large heatsink on them, which only really makes sense if they had an expander chip.

I bought 2x for future projects and to have spare parts.
I'll pull off the heatsink and get a shot of the chip.

I kinda feel like we could get a series of Wikis going describing hardware like this.
There are several older threads on Mellanox cards/switches that could use the same treatment.
Having threads on them can be great, but once they get large enough it becomes too much trouble to actually sift through them to find out if the correction made on page 47 was corrected again somewhere later on.

 

[Dave Corder]

These units don't have an expander, but are direct attach. Instead of using a fan-out cable, the SFF-8643 directly attaches 4x bays to the 4x lanes on the HBA. You could use a reverse breakout cable to connect to the SATA ports on a motherboard.

[/QUOTE]

Do you have a reference for that? I'm honestly a bit skeptical. An expander-leas backplane shouldn't have any components that need a heatsink. I suspect that the heatsink is hiding an expander chip and that two ports are designated for linking to the host and one port for linking to another expander (or even break out to individual ports for fixed-bay drives inside whatever chassis these were made for).

In any case, mine will be here in a couple weeks and I can confirm for sure.

 

[nabsltd]

Do you have a reference for that?

I'm just going by the 3x connectors (each having 4 lanes) and 12 drive bays. The only time I have seen a layout like that is on a direct-connect backplane.

Every expander I have seen tends to have an even number of connectors, since you want to daisy-chain the same speed out as you have in.

 

[Dave Corder]

I'm just going by the 3x connectors (each having 4 lanes) and 12 drive bays. The only time I have seen a layout like that is on a direct-connect backplane.

Every expander I have seen tends to have an even number of connectors, since you want to daisy-chain the same speed out as you have in.

The Supermicro BPN-SAS2-846EL1 is an expander-based backplane with three ports, though. I think they moved to four ports with the EL2, based on pictures I found on eBay.

 

[SourceQuality]

Do these come with rack mount ears? I see them in some pictures, but not all of them.

I'm thinking about picking some of these up, curious how to power these without it looking like a rats mess.

 

[mattventura]

The Supermicro BPN-SAS2-846EL1 is an expander-based backplane with three ports, though. I think they moved to four ports with the EL2, based on pictures I found on eBay.

The SAS2-EL2 has two expanders, each with three ports. Same PCB as -EL1, but with the other stuff populated.

SAS3-EL1 and -EL2 have four ports per expander.

 

[Dave Corder]

Do these come with rack mount ears? I see them in some pictures, but not all of them.

I'm thinking about picking some of these up, curious how to power these without it looking like a rats mess.

If you have access to a 3D printer:

Ears: https://makerworld.com/en/models/542624-12-bay-hard-drive-cage-rack-mount-ears

Fan wall: Fan Shroud For 12 Bay Hard Drive Cage by Morten957

It looks like these take 12V+5V and may or may not come with adapters from 4-pin Molex to whatever connectors they have.

My plan, since I'm crazy, is to power it from a HP server PSU with a mining breakout board (e.g., https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V9QLTMP/). That only gets me 12V, so I will use a pair of 75W (probably) 12V to 5V converters (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YZDP7Q4) for the 5V rails.

 

[Dave Corder]

I'm probably going to try to design and print a 140mm or 120mm fan wall to cover 2x cages, if anyone else is interested in that configuration.

 

[Prophes0r]

If you have access to a 3D printer...

For real?
It's a flat piece of metal, with holes drilled in it, and a 90 degree bend...

I try not to be TOO critical, but that's just absurd.
We literally ban people from the 3d printer in the 3 hacker spaces I'm a part of if they are caught printing flat sheets, boxes, or anything else that is trivial to make with regular methods.

BEGIN_RANT

We warn people when they take the (very short) certification class.
There is a sign on the PC controller warning them.
There is a sign on the PRINTER warning them.

And still, about half the people get their privileges revoked.

"It was just a small piece. What's the problem?"

Yeah?
See those bins of offcuts from all the ABS/PET/Al/Cu/Steel/etc sheets?
Those bin that says "Free use"?
The ones you don't need to pay to replace?

How about that drill press 5 feet away from the bins? See that?

But no. You spent 40 minutes of machine time and $10 of filament instead of 3 f'ing minutes to cut your piece from scrap and drill the 2 holes in it...

END_RANT

 

[kapone]

My plan, since I'm crazy, is to power it from a HP server PSU with a mining breakout board (e.g., https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V9QLTMP/). That only gets me 12V, so I will use a pair of 75W (probably) 12V to 5V converters (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YZDP7Q4) for the 5V rails.

Not that crazy, been there done that.

I used the HP power distributers themselves (after hacking them a bit) from DL 160s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1441288388...UvyATOkIJXOHzvoMQJ97Tvfw==|tkp:Bk9SR_z8jOuyZQ

I'm using these power supplies in many different ways, because they are so good. Practically silent, extremely efficient and built like tanks.

In my Chenbro 48 bay chassis...

In various 1U chassis...(they're not visible in this pic, but all these chassis are using the same HP PSU and power distributors)

With a miner breakout board... (these motherboards take 12v straight...and a picupsu for the one that doesn't)

 

[Dave Corder]

Not that crazy, been there done that.

I used the HP power distributers themselves (after hacking them a bit) from DL 160s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1441288388...UvyATOkIJXOHzvoMQJ97Tvfw==|tkp:Bk9SR_z8jOuyZQ

I'm using these power supplies in many different ways, because they are so good. Practically silent, extremely efficient and built like tanks.

Oh, nice. I wasn't aware there was an HP power distributor board that was readily available and flexible like that. I may have to go with one of those for these Inspur cages. I'm mostly concerned about power draw on the 5V rail during drive spinup (the HUH728080AL4200, for example, is only rated at 440mA on 5v during operation, so 24 of those would still draw less than the 18A@5V that PDU is rated for and would be fine). I believe my expanders and/or controllers will stagger spinup anyway, but not sure about the ones in these Inspur cages.

 

[kapone]

Oh, nice. I wasn't aware there was an HP power distributor board that was readily available and flexible like that. I may have to go with one of those for these Inspur cages. I'm mostly concerned about power draw on the 5V rail during drive spinup (the HUH728080AL4200, for example, is only rated at 440mA on 5v during operation, so 24 of those would still draw less than the 18A@5V that PDU is rated for and would be fine). I believe my expanders and/or controllers will stagger spinup anyway, but not sure about the ones in these Inspur cages.

I’m powering 24x of those exact HDDs with that power distributor and a 460w platinum PSU. Been running rock solid for years, with no staggered spin up.

 

[seadog2441]

I have those Inspur cages from Taobao with seller included power cable to Molex, will take pics if anyone need something. Havent got time to play with them yet but from memory, those have expander backplane, mine need one single 8643 cable.
The cage from x79 gen seem to have rack ear on them. The one from x99 platform I havent seen any, need to make couple for mine aswell.

 

[Dave Corder]

I’m powering 24x of those exact HDDs with that power distributor and a 460w platinum PSU. Been running rock solid for years, with no staggered spin up.

Good to know! Most of my drives are that drive (or something in the same family), or the 10TB versions.

 

[kapone]

Good to know! Most of my drives are that drive (or something in the same family), or the 10TB versions.

You'll be fine. There's no significant difference in power draw for the higher capacity drives, and even if there is, it's on the 12v side.

On a different note..wow those power distributors got expensive! These are old distributors... (G6 era). I bought them for like $7/ea and now they're 4-5x as much!