AMD EPYC 3251 Benchmarks and Review the Challenger We Need

Discussion in 'STH Main Site Posts' started by Patrick Kennedy, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. #1
    BlackHole, eva2000 and gigatexal like this.
  2. Evan

    Evan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    322
    Extremely competitive ! Great chip, performance, low power, likely an exceedingly good price....
    If only it was available :-/
     
    #2
  3. fake-name

    fake-name Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    42
    > These results were taken using our calibrated Extech TrueRMS Power Analyzer 380803 in a 71C ambient environment with 41% RH on 120V power.

    Uh, did you mean 71°F? Cause that's really, really warm otherwise.
     
    #3
  4. zir_blazer

    zir_blazer Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    45
    Do you know what 10G PHY is AMD using? I recall that you at some point mentioned the 10G PHY that Intel uses for its Xeons D. In Intel case, it had their own 10G PHYs.

    I love the EPYC 3000 platform. Can use either UDIMM or RDIMM with ECC, integrated 10G NICs, potentially more I/O that AM4, and their use guaranttes a BMC. If price is affordable enough, I would actually prefer an EPYC 3000 as a prosumer version of AM4.
    Also: Do these support 2 DPC or only 1 like Embedded Ryzen V1000 series? I don't know why they nerfed the DPCs, can't see any reason for them to not support 2 DPC and use 4 slots.
     
    #4
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  5. Patrick

    Patrick Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,164
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    512GB on the single die parts, 1TB on the dual so 2 DPC.

    Thanks @fake-name
     
    #5
  6. WANg

    WANg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    112
    Hmmm...I don't think the amd-xgbe drivers are capable of SRIOV (no allocation of PCIe PF/VFs) - I don't see any references to the capability on the Linux source tree.
     
    #6
    gigatexal likes this.
  7. diskdiddler

    diskdiddler Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5
    Performance seems to be quite good! (As I suspected, it's just an Epyc / Ryzen with very little changed)

    Really hope that Tyan / Asrock and SuperMicro change their minds on supporting these for homelab / soho users, I got either "not interested" or no response from them when asking.

    I do kinda wish the 8/16 model ran a tiny bit lighter on the watts, but you can't have everything (maybe in 18 to 30 months when it's shrunk to 7nm)

    Since my front page post seems to have been 'eaten' (?), Patrick any idea on these 2 issues with the Epyc 7xxx and 3xxx chips?
    196683 – Random Soft Lockup on new Ryzen build
    Ryzen Stability on 11.0-U4
     
    #7
  8. Evan

    Evan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    322
    @diskdiddler remember the watts include a video card and it’s still kind of pre release, idle at 32w is not bad and I hate to say it but a good deal better than intels d-2100 even at idle. (which granted has some interesting AVX512 performance but that should be a power consumer at idle as such)
     
    #8
    diskdiddler likes this.
  9. diskdiddler

    diskdiddler Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5
    I know it included the video card, but mine will be on 24/7 x 10 years. Plus 6x3.5" HDDs and a 10Gb NIC.
    Still, it's not bad, of course.
     
    #9
  10. Patrick

    Patrick Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,164
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    @diskdiddler I believe the Linux bit is Ryzen only, not EPYC.

    On the FreeBSD issue... honestly, I run FreeBSD in production only on very mainstream hardware. Going outside the mainstream and running FreeBSD tends to find issues. I love FreeBSD, but when I want stability, I do not think about putting it on new/ marginal hardware.

    The power consumption is higher, but a lot of that is platform based. Also, development platforms tend to have higher power consumption than shipping systems.

    My "guess" is that if we had three mITX systems with D-1541, D-2141I, and EPYC 3251 with the same features, the findings would be simple. The EPYC 3251 would use slightly more power than the D-1541. Performance would be closer to the D-2141I at a much lower power, except in memory bandwidth constrained and AVX-512 workloads.

    I am stepping out there a bit on this one. On the other hand, we have done tons of development systems, and dozens of embedded products, and tons of EPYC/ Skylake. It is a guess but I feel like I have some basis for it.
     
    #10
  11. diskdiddler

    diskdiddler Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5
    @Patrick

    I know that some Ryzen builds of FreeNAS work fine and that Epyc support, should in theory work fine.
    I would like to think with the age now of Ryzen and Epyc, FreeNAS is much closer to being reliable on that hardware.

    Also my existing build uses very old AMD Turion hardware without issue.
     
    #11
  12. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    440
    Any definitive word on this? That would be a huge bummer.
     
    #12
  13. WANg

    WANg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    112
    @Patrick - do you still have access to that Eypc box? If you do, can you see if amd-xgbe (the 10GbE NIC onboard) can do SRIOV? This can potentially turn into the Xeon-D 1540/X557 no SR-IOV saga once again...
     
    #13
    gigatexal likes this.
  14. zir_blazer

    zir_blazer Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    45
    As far that I'm aware of, at no point AMD announced SR-IOV support for the 10G NIC. Albeit yes, that could have been a major feature...
     
    #14
    gigatexal likes this.
  15. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    440
    Would one just have to get a proper intel card to get supported SRIOV?
     
    #15
  16. WANg

    WANg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    112
    ...yeah, but this is not just slapping on a 3rd party PCIe card. This is the embedded dual 10GbE NICs on the Eypc - the Intel equivalent comes with an embedded 10GbE NIC pair that can do SRIOV (and was in fact a promised feature that worked on the 15x1 family). It would be a bit of a feature regression from its almost-3-year-old competitor.

    ...and yes. SRIOV should work fine on the PCIe slot. The IOMMU is present and the PCIe root can support access control sevices (ACS).
     
    #16
    gigatexal likes this.
  17. diskdiddler

    diskdiddler Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5
    For any slightly curious, I did some comparisons on SuperMicro site vs Intel site and found an approximate $300 to $400 'markup' from the base cost of the CPU (tray) to a full ITX board.

    So you could approximate, that a board using this $315 US CPU would be somewhere in the regions of $600 to $750, depending on how well you bargain hunt.

    Assuming anyone ever builds one. Food for thought though.
     
    #17
  18. Patrick

    Patrick Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,164
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    A few bits here:
    • I think the few hundred total is correct. I think $300-400 may be a bit high. Take the A2SDI-4C-HLN4F as an example where the entire board sells at retail for under $270. List on the C3558 is $86 which means sub $200 for the board in that example.
    • Most of these products are not meant to be bought on NewEgg/ Amazon. You are likely spending more to get one off parts from an etailer. They also move so slowly that vendors have trouble stocking them at Amazon.
    • I do think that part of the pricing formula is a markup on COGS.
    • Volume on these embedded parts tends to be lower than mainstream server platforms. There are other vendors I know out there doing runs of 200-500 boards at a time only.
    Single die EPYC 3251 has lower component coats coats than dual die. Fewer PCIe, NIC, and RAM slots need to be placed as an example. I think that you could see a $600 ish board with the CPU if there is a customer with a decent volume OEM'ing the platform. The flip side is that someone needs to invest in all of the BIOS, firmware, and software validation work for the AMD platforms. Even if it is not much, spread over low volumes it adds up.
     
    #18
  19. diskdiddler

    diskdiddler Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5

    I looked at some of the very cheap processors and figured it throws off the figures when the processor is that cheap?
    The ones I compared were 8 Core Xeon and I think 8 core Denverton. I'm not sure how they go for PCI lanes (and therefore I guess, traces and layers per board) - but I agree a single die Epyc embedded would obviously have less complexity, so it's going to be the best processor to get at a reasonable price.

    End of the day, I've been fussing and hoping about this since Feb this year and no one has ponied up with any interest. Do you know of anything, even if you can't name companies? You'd have better contacts than us.

    I'm more than happy to wait over 6 months for my board upgrade if it means such a powerful processor at 2/3 or even 400 dollars less than a comparative Intel one.

    Again, thanks so much for the review, shocks me how little info there's been (I've even tweeted @ AMD and I think some kind of @ AMDEmbedded account, no bites)
     
    #19
  20. zir_blazer

    zir_blazer Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    45
    Besides the fact that these Motherboards are intended for the industrial market and carry a premium for that reason, is the BoM of the embedded Motherboards that much higher than mid-high end consumer Motherboards like those that are sold in the 150-200 U$D range (Excluding Processor, obviously)?
    If prices were more competitive, I'm sure that there would be a higher demand, too. I see embedded Ryzen/EPYC issues as a chicken-and-egg scenario, is quite hard to find these products somewhere, and when you see a platform based on those, they are quite expensive, so this discourages their possible general purpose popularity. No one would pay the high premiums unless they really need the exact feature set and format.
    I'm still confident that embedded Ryzen/EPYC could be a hit if sold to prosumers as a replacement for standard independent Processor + Motherboard combos if the price difference isn't too high. I mean, I can't be the only one that prefers the Embedded Ryzen/EPYC feature set compared to the inferior AM4. I still have wet dreams that we would eventually see a competitor to the traditional consumer Motherboards brands (ASUS, AsRock, Gigabyte, MSI) that would try to position a SoC platform aimed for system builders.


    In my particular case, I simply can't stand the consumer market. I'm a disgruntled Hardware enthusiast that hates how the consumer market evolved in a way where everything above mid end is automatically something oriented to gamers or overclockers, and have useless gimmicks like RGB lights, ineffective Heatsink with mutant shapes and logos, and the like. Whenever I want to think about building a new computer for me or any possible friend/client and start by looking at Motherboards, you have either low end Motherboards that are too corner cutted for my taste, and if you step a bit above mid end, you are getting swarmed by Motherboards aimed to gamers and overclockers with useless gimmicks that I (Nor my possible clients) will ever use. I just want a sober, simple, but high quality Motherboard at a reasonable price, and the consumer market simply doesn't deliver that.
    Heck, even Supermicro dissapointed me, because when they announced their intentions to enter the consumer market, I was expecting sober Workstation-like products that filled that niche of high quality, gimmickless Motherboards. Instead, they decided to attempt to take on the established brands head on with similar gamer products. I'm not expecting them to be my SoC saviors any longer.

    End of Rant.
     
    #20
Similar Threads: EPYC 3251
Forum Title Date
STH Main Site Posts Xilinx Alveo U280 Launched Possibly with AMD EPYC CCIX Support Monday at 8:22 AM
STH Main Site Posts New AMD EPYC 7371 Frequency Optimized Processor Launched Nov 13, 2018
STH Main Site Posts AMD EPYC 2 Rome What We Know Will Change the Game Nov 6, 2018
STH Main Site Posts Noctua NH-U12S TR4-SP3 AMD EPYC and Threadripper Cooler Review Nov 2, 2018
STH Main Site Posts New Gigabyte AMD EPYC Server 2U4N and Motherboard Options Nov 1, 2018

Share This Page