Advise on cooling 22,000 watts
- Thread starter ELit3
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My setup is not residential I have the power capacity for the setup I'm just not exactly sure how to cool it in 150 sq ft. A data center wouldn't be able to get me the power cost I have at $0.039 per kwh. I used a 14,000 BTU portable unit for my 6,600 watt setup with a ceiling exhaust fan out to the roof and that keeps the units at 60 degrees +/- 5.
I think it would depend on what office/space you have/get.
I know businesses that have more power to 5k/sqft warehouses for industrial purposes... it's really not that much power in that regard... it's what ~200A @ 240v single phase so you'd need 400AMP single phase to accommodate 200A utilization with minimal room to grow (you can't use all 400).
Then you'd have 3 phase for cooling systems.
It's not unheard of for warehouse space to have single and three phase power at those capacities, especially if you're subletting 5-10k sq/ft warehouse that has many more buildings onsite.
Obviously this doesn't take into account the huge cost and PITA to do the configuration/setup/management/monitoring/testing/etc yourself vs. datacenter
as Patrick mentioned, but it's not that much power it couldn't be done by any means.
I know businesses that have more power to 5k/sqft warehouses for industrial purposes... it's really not that much power in that regard... it's what ~200A @ 240v single phase so you'd need 400AMP single phase to accommodate 200A utilization with minimal room to grow (you can't use all 400).
Then you'd have 3 phase for cooling systems.
It's not unheard of for warehouse space to have single and three phase power at those capacities, especially if you're subletting 5-10k sq/ft warehouse that has many more buildings onsite.
Obviously this doesn't take into account the huge cost and PITA to do the configuration/setup/management/monitoring/testing/etc yourself vs. datacenter
as Patrick mentioned, but it's not that much power it couldn't be done by any means.I was thinking to use a Liebert DS CRAC Unit, 30 Ton and expand the space to about 300 sq ft. I believe most of the problems would come it exhausting all of that heat.I think it would depend on what office/space you have/get.
I know businesses that have more power to 5k/sqft warehouses for industrial purposes... it's really not that much power in that regard... it's what ~200A @ 240v single phase so you'd need 400AMP single phase to accommodate 200A utilization with minimal room to grow (you can't use all 400).
Then you'd have 3 phase for cooling systems.
It's not unheard of for warehouse space to have single and three phase power at those capacities, especially if you're subletting 5-10k sq/ft warehouse that has many more buildings onsite.
Obviously this doesn't take into account the huge cost and PITA to do the configuration/setup/management/monitoring/testing/etc yourself vs. datacenter
Remember you don't need (and becoming more common) to keep them super cool.
I can't comment on AC unit, or required capacity out of my experience but I have a feeling it's more than just slapping a big AC and being good to go There probably are regulations for not only how much exhaust can flow but the quality of it too, in the USA that is.
I can't comment on AC unit, or required capacity out of my experience but I have a feeling it's more than just slapping a big AC and being good to go
There probably are regulations for not only how much exhaust can flow but the quality of it too, in the USA that is.Yeah by the time you are talking about spending enough on hardware to consume that much power you are probably better off looking for a physical location far enough north that ambient temps are cool enough that you can skip the A/C and just use massive fans to the outdoors. Then you can add even more gear cause you don't have to pay/power an A/C unit.
Ill do my due diligence on that.Remember you don't need (and becoming more common) to keep them super cool.
I can't comment on AC unit, or required capacity out of my experience but I have a feeling it's more than just slapping a big AC and being good to go
The reason I am doing this project now is because winter is coming so to speak. I have all the equipment already I'm not paying for it alone me and a couple of buds have invested highly into the equipment and property/space it will be in but its our responsibility to cool the placement.
So you think if temperatures outside are cold/cool it would be worthwhile utilizing an incoming airflow while its cool?
Mother Nature is for sure cheaper than doing it artificially. Just have to have a plan for the hot months too.
Even better would be if you could use the heat for something meaningful, i.e. growing strawbery, heat an office or whatever.
if it's mining i would also consider running a lower load on extremely hot days over investing huge into cooling. doing some math could tell what is more preferable.
if it's mining i would also consider running a lower load on extremely hot days over investing huge into cooling. doing some math could tell what is more preferable.
44000 watt is about 63A three phase fully utilized.
Not that exotic here. Not many homes would have it but you can get to about 80A 3 phase residential and 250A 3 phase on an LV line.
Everything above that and you will need multiple lines if you want to stay LV or go MV with your own transformer.
As for cooling it. If the climate allows, use outside air.
Make hot and cold aisles. Suck the hot air out of the hot aisles. Make sure there is enoug return air coming in. Its surprising how little delta T is needed to keep the cards happy. The rest is volume and that is not as much as you might think.
Not that exotic here. Not many homes would have it but you can get to about 80A 3 phase residential and 250A 3 phase on an LV line.
Everything above that and you will need multiple lines if you want to stay LV or go MV with your own transformer.
As for cooling it. If the climate allows, use outside air.
Make hot and cold aisles. Suck the hot air out of the hot aisles. Make sure there is enoug return air coming in. Its surprising how little delta T is needed to keep the cards happy. The rest is volume and that is not as much as you might think.
Is it 15% or 20% safety margin? Yea that's good load on 3 phase.
You'll want to do outside air. Need to have good fans with temp regs. Make sure everything can handle constant load like that. One fire and that's a big operation to go to flames.
Your outside climate is an important factor - keeping the inside air at 70degs (or 60degs) on a 100 deg day is quite a bit different to just getting the 44kW out. Or is your space within an otherwise air conditioned space?
How many racks of equipment do you have within that space? Is it traditional 44u racks or a more ghetto setup? Can you hot/cold it (you should) and duct accordingly? A colder cool isle costs more but gives a longer grace period if something goes wrong with the AC. Speaking of which, what sort of uptime do you need?
For how long are you expecting to run the operation? A one year pump and dump vs. 5 year vs. indefinitely?
The required circuit for the crac will easily be 25+kVA - required for the compressor inrush I believe. Our 20 ton AC requires a 240v/100a circuit. (As a building AC it also has an airside economizer that switches between recirculated air & ‘free cooling*’.)
For the amount of investment you must be dropping I’ll echo the others that say you should really get a consult from an HVAC pro.
*free cooling, but the longer runtime of the 5kw fan offsets it more than I expected.
How many racks of equipment do you have within that space? Is it traditional 44u racks or a more ghetto setup? Can you hot/cold it (you should) and duct accordingly? A colder cool isle costs more but gives a longer grace period if something goes wrong with the AC. Speaking of which, what sort of uptime do you need?
For how long are you expecting to run the operation? A one year pump and dump vs. 5 year vs. indefinitely?
The required circuit for the crac will easily be 25+kVA - required for the compressor inrush I believe. Our 20 ton AC requires a 240v/100a circuit. (As a building AC it also has an airside economizer that switches between recirculated air & ‘free cooling*’.)
For the amount of investment you must be dropping I’ll echo the others that say you should really get a consult from an HVAC pro.
*free cooling, but the longer runtime of the 5kw fan offsets it more than I expected.
If you get air directly from the outside, make sure to “de-humid” with filters or so. You want as low of a humudity inside as possible. Also make sure to have a real airflow system. Separate cold from hot areas. That way you can control where heat goes much easier.
I think you're correct that you want to control humidity, but you definitely don't want it as low as possible. Too low and you'll have ESD issues.
The question of timeline to run the whole setup is going to be helpful to suggest a best course of action. If you are running it just for the winter then selling off the gear ad doing something else then that is different than running it for 5+ years. And if you are going to have it for > 1yr, is it going to grow?
44kw isn't much at all for a small data center. It sounded like you found some space already but if not you can find some office space with and old data room already decked out with a generator and cooling.
Having built out data rooms in the past, I would consult a HVAC engineer to make sure you end up with the most bang for the buck, and get hooked up with people who can do maintenance on the unit(s) - regardless if you do new or used units. Also get fire control squared away, you don't want to run afoul of the local codes.
44kw isn't much at all for a small data center. It sounded like you found some space already but if not you can find some office space with and old data room already decked out with a generator and cooling.
Having built out data rooms in the past, I would consult a HVAC engineer to make sure you end up with the most bang for the buck, and get hooked up with people who can do maintenance on the unit(s) - regardless if you do new or used units. Also get fire control squared away, you don't want to run afoul of the local codes.
You are right, I formulated that wrong.
however low enough so there won’t be moisture in the room. And I also forgot to add that an HVAC expert would be the right one to ask about this.