A few questions

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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
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Long time listener - 1st time caller.

I have an old PC & only enough money to shuck 4x 8TB WD HDD’s with a view to expand later. I will probably build a more up to date system for gaming when my son gets older. This one could do it but it has only 1 x16 PCIe slot & a 4x so can’t run both GPU & HBA concurrently.

At a bit of a loss of how to go about this.

From what I have gathered so far I should be able to make a somewhat reasonable NAS from this albeit power hungry & not top line but easily enough to see me through.

I’ve lost so much data over the years to Seagate HDD’s that I can’t afford the cheap option anymore.

I’ve looked for tutorials but nothing seems to cover these old specs or in a format I can understand. I’m not a complete newbie (I am compared to you guys) but some of what is discussed is over my current understanding. I am sure I will get the hang of it & am ok with steep learning curves just not there yet to ask the right questions.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Hardware on Hand

Gigabyte GA Z68AP D3 ver 2.0

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z68AP-D3-rev-20/support#support-dl

  • USB 3 ports are funky
  • PCIe 2.0 (3.0 if using 22mn CPU) 16x, 4x, 2 x 1x (attached to 4x), 2 x PCI
  • 2 x SATA 600
  • 3 x SATA 300
  • HDMI
  • 1Gbt LAN
  • Win 10 (lic to MB)
  • mSATA slot
  • int GFX
i5 2500k (OC’d to 4.6Ghz)

Intel® Core™ i5-2500K Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.70 GHz) Product Specifications

8G (2x 4G) matched RAM

XMS3 — 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 Memory Kit

240GB SSD

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.tomshardware.com/amp/reviews/dramless-ssd-roundup,4833-8.html

Corsair HX1050 PSU

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Supply-Units/hx-series-config/p/CP-9020033-NA

Case (holds 8x 3.5” HDD’s + SSD’s

Deep Cool GAMMAXX 400 cooler

http://www.deepcool.com/product/cpucooler/2013-12/7_487.shtml


End Game
  • Raid 5 (or equiv)
  • Plex server
  • FreeNAS
  • Torrents (who said that?)

Parts Needed
  • 4 or 5 HDD’s (6 or 8TB ea)
  • HBA 8i

Questions
  • Can an HBA 3.0 PCIe be backwards compatible to 2.0 for this 1st build?
  • Will 8G RAM be enough or when won’t it be?
  • Will the PSU draw more power being so big or will it only draw what is needed? Will I need a smaller one?
  • Can I run FreeNAS via USB while sometimes booting Win 10 & loading the exact same USB/FreeNAS in a VM? (have Office on Win10)
  • Should I put FreeNAS on an mSATA, on the SSD or USB instead?
  • Not so up there with the BIOS & what I can turn off to save power.
  • Are there any questions I should have asked? lol
  • Am I in the right place?
 
T

ttabbal

Active Member
Mar 10, 2016
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You can put together something that will work on that platform. It's going to be a bit slower, but considering that you will probably be connecting over 1gbit or even wifi,

Most HBAs are PCIe 2.0, and cards are usually compatible with older slots. So you're good there. It looks like your board's PCIe 4x slot is a 16x physical, so I would put the GPU there, or even use an older PCI video card. Or just use the on-chip graphics.

8GB is fine for what you're wanting to do. It might get slower, but again, that might well not matter for your uses.

PSUs tend to only draw what they need, though there is some overhead. You don't need a huge PSU for this setup, a 600W is likely more than enough.

Running Windows on a machine with ZFS or other filesystems it doesn't know about can be tricky. And no, you can't run FreeNAS in a VM on that hardware. You need vt-d to run FreeNAS in a VM. You can go the other way and run Windows in a VM, however, RAM is going to quickly become more of an issue. Run Windows/Office on a client machine, save yourself the hassle.

I tried USB drives for FreeNAS and others, but they tended to have issues over short time periods. Cheap small SSDs are a good way to go. Old enterprise drives <100GB are super cheap on ebay and perform well for things like this. I prefer to run mirrors for the main drive, but it's not really needed if you don't mind the possibility of down time while you get the replacement OS drive set up.

Power use.. The first thing would be to disable the overclock and make sure power scaling is enabled. Spinning down the drives can help during idle periods, but running them up and down often can wear the mechanical parts faster.

Try to avoid VMs and use FreeNAS plugins that use Jails (containers) instead. They have less overhead and will do what you want without eating all the RAM for VMs. There are plugins for the things you want to do, so it's reasonably easy to make things go and keep the nice FreeNAS UI for management of the system.

Read the WD SMR thread. You want to avoid SMR for arrays. I don't know if any of the USB drives out there now use it, but something to look into.
 
Z

zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
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Get used enterprise drives. You can get smaller (3tb-4tb) sas drives at a much better $/tb price point than used enterprise sata or shucked Wds.

Used enterprise 6tb, 8tb and 10tb sas drives are also very reasonable.
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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Awesome information, thank you both.

Yes the SMR issue seems to be quite disastrous for arrays especially for raid 5/6. I’ve spent all morning trying to see if white label WD 8T’s are SMR or CMR but nothing so far.

I suppose it wouldn’t matter as much if I was going to mirror & use an SSD for torrents but I was hoping to get a better capacity than 50%.

I will look into enterprise HDD’s. Australia seems to be rather expensive for drives. An 8TB Red is $400 Vs 8TB White $250 hence why I was heading that way.

I’ve got 5-6TB’s of media alone, don’t think <500GB x8 will do it for me.

As far as HBA cards, I thought the new ones were PCIe 3.0 & was thinking of using it in a newer build later down the track.

Was going to use internal gfx. Was even thinking of getting a Xeon, using a gfx card to set things up & then taking it out & use the web gui in FreeNAS after but unsure if a PC will even start w/o gfx of any kind.
 
S

Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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After checking EBay
www.ebay.com.au

4TB SAS Hard Disk Drive HGST Hitachi Ultrastar Enterprise Grade HDD | eBay

Excellent condition, and ready to use. HGST has become a leader in hard drive technologies, providing long-lasting and high-quality enterprise storage. These are SAS hard drives and are only compatible with systems that support SAS interfaces. The typical environments that these hard drives...
www.ebay.com.au

I take it SAS drives are easy enough to install through HBA’s
 
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zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
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The sas and sata signal use the same interface. The power, on the other hand, will be different. SAS drives generally use more power and are louder than Sata drives.

You can buy Sas cables that utilise molex power or get a HDD cage. The later is generally better for cable management and cooling. Hot-swap HDD cages can also make life easier in the event you have to replace drives
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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Thanks

The case I have has 2x 4 bay hot swappable cages & fans that blow directly on them & under them to exhaust out the top & rear. It has accessible side panels with all 8 bays running sideways as well. Very easy access.

I believe I can get SFF 8087 to 4x SFF 8482 (x2) with SATA power adapters & I may even have a molex cable on my hx1050 modular psu.

So far all the LSI SAS 9207’s I see on EBay are from Hong Kong or China. They mostly come with 2x SFF 8087 to 4x SATA.
Like
www.ebay.com.au

Network Disk Controllers & RAID Cards for sale | Shop with Afterpay | eBay AU

Get the best deals on Network Disk Controllers & RAID Cards. Shop with Afterpay on eligible items. Free delivery and returns on eBay Plus items for Plus members. Shop today!
www.ebay.com.au
Or right
www.ebay.com.au

LSI SAS 9207-8i SATA 6Gb/s PCI-E Host Bus Adapter LSI00301 Raid Card 2PCS 8087 | eBay

ETA 3 to 6 Weeks. We will do our best and help you provide the solution. ※ All faulty due to improper installation or improper use will NOT be covered by the warranty.
www.ebay.com.au

If these cards are fine then this just may be an easy build.
Noise isn’t an issue.
The only Issue I may have is power forcing me to have specific running times during the evening/night meaning powering/spinning them up everyday.
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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From research these Ultrastar 4TB may have the 3.3V 3rd pin reset feature which would require taping or molex unless this is accounted for in the SAS cables with SATA power adapters.
 
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zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
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Those hgst drives are pretty reliable and your PSU has 12 molex cables (I believe), which should give you enough drives.

What case are you using?
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
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I really don’t know.
I had dreams of building an updated gaming rig & bought 2 secondhand gaming cases from someone. They are both huge & both have hdd cages up the wazoo. I might have got the wrong idea about “hot swappable”. These cages are screwless with 2 clips per drive. It doesn’t support caddies.
 
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zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
63
If your drive cage had a backplane then you maybe could use those cables bundled with the sas card.

Save an investment into a powered drive cage, I think you may need these cables (you can use existing sata cables to power): Cable Matters Internal Mini SAS to SAS Cable (SFF-8087 to SFF-8482) 1.6 Feet / 0.5m: Cables: Amazon.com.au

There are also molex equalivent to those cables.

In terms of the sas card, sas2008 based cards will suit your needs. However, you might want to consider a sas2308 based card, as a minimum, if you intend to run esxi 7.0.

You can check your eventual hardware/software raid pool size using this: https://www.servethehome.com/raid-calculator/
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
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As far as the SAS drives, if I was going for 8 in raid, should I get an extra 1 or 2 for spares or are they reliable enough to not worry if they last the 30 day return policy?
 
Z

zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
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Here is a listing on sas cards (note that you can generally save by buying a cheaper oem and flash to lsi firmware): https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...and-hba-complete-listing-plus-oem-models.599/

Also, you should always have spares. Enterprise or not, drives eventually fail.

If you decide to go the used enterprise route, make sure you test them within the warranty period (smart, bad blocks etc) so that you can get any bad drives replaced by seller.
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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So if I’m reading that list right
HP H220 6Gbps SAS PCI-E 3.0 HBA LSI 9207-8i P20 IT Mode for ZFS FreeNAS unRAID
Is a 2308 based card.

& I could get it in time to test the SAS drives within 30 days.

those cables are pretty expensive for me.
Locally I can get
Or
www.u-buy.com.au

Deconn Mini SAS 36 SFF-8087 to (4) SFF-8482 Australia | Ubuy

Shop Deconn Mini SAS 36 SFF-8087 to (4) SFF-8482 Connectors With SATA Power 1m online at a best price in Australia. Get special offers, deals, discounts & fast delivery options on international shipping with every purchase on Ubuy Australia. B010CMW6S4
www.u-buy.com.au www.u-buy.com.au

I need to get the card & cables in time to test the drives within 30 days as the drives are local & would be delivered within a couple of days.
 
Z

zack$

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
708
338
63
Yup. Can't vouch for the seller though (no experience).

And yes, 8087 to 8482 cables will do the job. That should settle you on the hba and HDDs.

On the software side, your gonna run into limitations with only 8gb or ram. FreeNAS requires a min. of 8gb. Given your pool will likely be more than 4tb, you should consider getting more memory (rule of thumb being the more the merrier).

You could also consider running ZoL and network shares on Ubuntu. With docker on Ubuntu, you could run plex and much more than on a FreeNAS platform. You could also run Win10 as a VM within Ubuntu as well. This will likely make the most of your limited memory.

If you do upgrade your memory, you could consider running either esxi or proxmox with a FreeNAS VM, Win10 VM and whatever else you like (docker is highly recommended).

I think your motherboard goes up to 32gb and ddr3 is really cheap these days.
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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Yes my MB does go up to 32GB. Was thinking of getting a matched 8GB 1600 1.65v pair (16GB) to compliment the matched 4GB pair I have.

I haven’t found a reliable seller for the H220 yet which concerns me a bit.

Doing research on the OS’s you mentioned. This is an area I am completely green on.

Thanks
 
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Sashinka

New Member
Apr 28, 2020
16
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I don’t know if diving into all these things straight away will be beneficial for me.

Maybe if I focus on understanding/getting familiar with FreeNAS 1st before incorporating VM’s.

I thought I might be able to have FreeNAS going most of the time & boot Win10 when needed which is rarely. My Win10 is lic to that MB (enterprise).
 
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