24/7 server running on enthusiast gear: overclocking wise or foolish?

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urbanracer34

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Jul 4, 2014
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I posted this request to reddit a while ago and I am starting to question one of my points:

$1.5-2K CAD Linux Home server with (eventual) large migration of data: Plex, Torrents, game servers, VMs and 15TB of data high on ZFS : buildapcforme

Here's a persons response to my plea:

I went with a 6 cores (12 threads) i7-5820K, cooled by a Noctua NH-D14.

The motherboard comes with 10 SATA ports, supports hot plug and RAID 0, 1, 5, 10. There are also an eSATA and M2 port, which could be used for an SSD if you wanted to boot on that. Full specs here. Supports up to 128GB of RAM (but 64 effectively, as there are 8 slots, and to my knowledge, 8GB/slot is the maximum you can find.)

I included a 'regular' HDD for your system as I wasn't sure if you want or need an SSD.

I also included 16GB of RAM which you didn't mention at the end of your post, but I think is necessary to get the server running (this will be DDR4, I assume you don't have a stock laying around already). 32GB upfront would put you over the $1500, but you might want to consider it ("that way you have it").

The case houses 11 3.5" bays, and some 5.25" that you can convert if you need; it comes with 2 front fans and 1 rear pre-installed, so I think the drive cooling should be okay. Full specs here As you can see it focuses on silence, with padded doors/side and integrated fan controllers. Alternatively, you could go for the Lian-li PC-A75, that kinda looks like a fridge as well, but has no front door, and 3 front fans, so it should be less quiet, but cooler for the HDDs. It houses 12 3.5" bays; full specs here

PSU is modular, gold certified and has 10 SATA ports.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

TypeItemPrice
CPUIntel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor$419.89 @ DirectCanada
CPU CoolerNoctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU Cooler$84.99 @ Memory Express
MotherboardASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard$256.95 @ Vuugo
MemoryCrucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory$232.98 @ Newegg Canada
StorageSeagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive$111.98 @ DirectCanada
Video CardEVGA GeForce 8400 GS 1GB Video Card$33.98 @ Newegg Canada
CaseNanoxia NXDS5B ATX Full Tower Case$160.19 @ Amazon Canada
Power SupplyXFX XTR 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply$104.98 @ NCIX
Total
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available$1405.94
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-24 16:28 EST-0500
Edit: added an entry level graphics card, forgot there was no integrated graphics on these CPUs.


First off, are the parts good for the purpose?
  • 24/7 Headless server running Ubuntu 14.04. Will be handling about almost anything, including running various torrenting apps (including rtorrent/rutorrent combo and some automation tools), Plex Media Server, file serving via Netatalk and Samba, Remote access via SSH and RealVNC, some VMs via VMware Workstation and various game servers if I ever get a bigger pipe to host them on. (5/0.6 Mbps is the pipe i’m on currently, and it sucks)

Second, if I go for these parts, as my budget is limited bar drives (except for the system drive), is it wise to overclock the CPU on something that expects reliability and consistency or am I being foolish? I'm prepared to push the system to the limit to eke out its maximum performance and I'm not afraid to spend hours doing it. I'd be running Ubuntu on it in production, but would put on Windows to do the overclocking and stability testing.
 

OBasel

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Dec 28, 2010
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Did you spend the money yet? Seems like a crazy build idea. I would be worried with anyone configing a server and telling you; "forgot there was no integrated graphics on these CPUs."

Overclocking can reduce stability and increase data errors. That's why you don't overclock while installing an OS. And I'm not really sure what you'd get more performance for?

Maybe game servers? But you can get an E3 to do those better. You'd also want SSDs if you were doing minecraft or something. After the SSD you'd need a bigger pipe.

Many of us here all used or still use consumer hardware, but I think you are spending money to build something far from ideal.

Do you want us to reconfigure? Is that the question?
 

RTM

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2014
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There are a few things I would do differently:

For one, I would be using something with ECC RAM, as it is for 24/7 operation.
As you are looking at socket 2011-3, I would suggest replacing it with the Xeon equivalent and a suitable motherboard (that way you probably also get some Nics that are more likely to work (natively) on platforms such as ESXi).
Another benefit of going the Xeon route, is that you will probably also get some kind of integrated graphics in the form of a IPMI system.

I would definitely also use a SSD for OS disk, and not a disk that is not even intended for 24/7 operation.

As OBasel priefly touched upon, you might well be able to make do with a Socket 1150 based system and a Xeon E3.
This limits you to 32GB of memory, however I don't see anything in your post that suggests that you really need much more.

I would definitely not consider overclocking, as that (in my opinion) contradicts stability.
With overclocking you will most likely have to continuously monitor your system over time and tweak as necessary.

You mentioned doing virtualization using vmware workstation, in stead of doing that you should consider using some of the technology embedded into your Linux OS of choice.
KVM and Docker are two technologies that are quite popular on that platform, and they complement each other quite nicely.

Finally a suggestion:
You could probably save some money by looking into used hardware, if you look around on Ebay you can probably find a good deal on a dual socket LGA1366 motherboard and some L5640/L5639/x5650 CPUs.
Another suggestion could be to look into a dell C6100 XS23-TY3 system.
 

HellDiverUK

Active Member
Jul 16, 2014
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You could run all that stuff on an i3 with plenty of spare power. You're wasting your money spending all that on a server.

I run my Xeon, just because it was basically free, but if I didn't have it I'd be running a Pentium G3430 (dual core 3.1GHz I think), and it's more than adequate for all the stuff I run on my server, and that includes VMs.

Your nVidia GPU is terrible too, it's beyond ancient. Go for a GT610 or similar, and least they're power efficient.
 

MiniKnight

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Mar 30, 2012
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Sorry, but this person is suggesting a virtualization server with a fancy $750 motherboard + CPU and you are only using 2 of the 4 memory channels and only have 16GB of RAM? If you buy the above as a server you'll hate it. I'd also do things like swap that cooler for a Cooler Master 212 EVO. $35 and is quiet enough with plenty of cooling. With a server, just get IPMI. You will never need to hook up a keyboard, monitor or mouse. And you save lots of power without a video card.

If you can get by with 16-32GB of RAM, the people here saying socket LGA1150 or LGA1155 are totally right. I would probably lean towards a Xeon E3 instead of a Core i3 because of the game servers. E3-1240 or E3-1270. You could get V1, V2 or V3 and be happy. If you need more storage ports, get a board like the Supermicro X10SL7-F with an onboard RAID controller. You can use it for VT-d passthrough if you ever swap to ESXi.

If you want to just save a ton of money: Supermicro X9DRH If CSE846 2X E5 2603 1 8GHz 24BAY 4U Storage Server 9260CV 4i | eBay - Buy some cheap DDR3 RDIMMs (say 8 DIMMs). The processors are slow but you get lots of RAM. You could use the two processors to flash the board to the latest bios and see how performance is. If you want faster single thread, you could get: Intel Xeon E5 1650 V2 6 Core 3 5GHz Processor SR1AQ | eBay for maybe $250 after selling the processors the original system comes with, or you could get a faster dual Xeon setup. That original system already has a LSI RAID card with CacheVault which is a nice card and you can put 24 hot swap bays no problem.

Then get a few cheap $110/ 240GB SSDs and start building out 4TB disks until you are content.

For what you are trying to do, get server motherboards/ processors. Otherwise, you are going to hate the system after spending lots of money. In the virtualized server world, it is much easier to run out of RAM before processor so skip the instability of overclocking and get more RAM.

If you wanted something totally awesome but X5600 based:
Supermicro Fat Twin 6026TT HDTRF Server X8DTT HF 2 Node 4X X5650 Hex Core 48GB | eBay
You get 2 dual socket machines in one chassis. Each has 2x 6 core 12 thread processors and 48GB of RAM. You have hot swap drive bays and you'll pay under $1000. You could even have one side run game servers and the other side run everything else.
 

mackle

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Nov 13, 2013
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My experience overclocking since PIII days is that data servers and overclocking are a recipe for trouble.
 
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urbanracer34

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Jul 4, 2014
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Thanks for all of your responses. I have bought none of the parts I listed above, which was one of the reasons I was second guessing the build in the first place. From what you are all telling me, I would be stupid to go for the build I had listed from that guy from Reddit.

Overclocking on a server is horrible and dangerous, I see that now.

I'm thinking of going for the FatTwin and combine it with vSphere to get the setup I am after. I just need to get the $$$, might be a few months but that might be the way to go.

Thanks everyone,

urban
 

bds1904

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Aug 30, 2013
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I have to chime in on this one too. Personally, I would go a completely different direction that most people would recommend.

I would get the fat-twin and do do the following:

Take 8GB out of node 1 and put it in node 2. That leaves 16GB in node1 and 32GB in node 2.

Node 1 would be:
Node 2 would be:
Basically node 1 is your storage server and it will be serving the drives to node 2 in one array over the 2x 4GB Fiber Channel connections. Round-Robin 4Gb FC is FAST and will not be a bottleneck at all.

The main reason I would choose this route? It's expandable! This gets you up and running with a bare-metal storage server and a single node. I also prefer a bare-metal storage server. It's just easier. No passthru to deal with (works intermittantly from version to version with ESXi).

If you want to add another node, simply add a Brocade 200E FC Switch. The second node will also need another QLE-2462. If you want to add disks, add a Half-Height LSI SAS-3801e and a Rackable SE3016, now you have room for 16 more disks. Add another 5 2TB drives, expand the array and now you have 16TB useable space.

Why not use 10Gb ethernet (Like the brocade 1020 CNA)? Because expansion is expensive! Sure, the NIC is cheap, DAC's are kind of cheap but switches are EXPENSIVE! You could do a Brocade 1020 in the storage server and then serve 2 nodes, but then you are getting into non-routable address on your network (which I really don't like doing, just the network guy coming out in me). Once you need to move past 2 nodes you are going to be looking at $1000 for a switch. The round-robin FC setup I reccomend will run at 700-800MB/sec all day, a 10GB iSCSI will run up to 800MB/sec and NFS will only run 800-900MB/sec. Not that big of a difference for a huge jump in price. Not worth it in my book.
 
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Mike

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May 29, 2012
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Overclocking comes in at different levels. At home I would want the highest attainable frequency and be okay with any damage it may do.
I think some Supermicro servers were at one point reviewed here at STH that came with a factory overclock or overclock setting? I guess these could give you the edge for your trading application with some confidence of stability.

Some platforms may allow you to overclock certain cores of the cpu. If you pin your application to those high frequency cores you might(!) steer away from possible crashes and still have the performance no cpu can currently buy you.
 
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Patriot

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Apr 18, 2011
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Overclocking comes in at different levels. At home I would want the highest attainable frequency and be okay with any damage it may do.
I think some Supermicro servers were at one point reviewed here at STH that came with a factory overclock or overclock setting? I guess these could give you the edge for your trading application with some confidence of stability.

Some platforms may allow you to overclock certain cores of the cpu. If you pin your application to those high frequency cores you might(!) steer away from possible crashes and still have the performance no cpu can currently buy you.
There is certainly a level of overclock you can get with extreme confidence of stability. ~20% maybe 30% ...
However you are trading power consumption for performance as much as anything.
 
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bds1904

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Aug 30, 2013
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I didn't yet read but I just wanted to say that it's not foolish, it's more of risk thing, they just tell you it's foolish because you will be receiving zero support or help from others, once you start go ahead making unstandard actions, you're on your own basically. But if you know what you are doing, you can score big.
I would like to point out that building that PC and overclocking for a server is extremely foolish when you can have a far superior setup with a dedicated storage server, drive redundancy, twice the memory, ECC memory, over twice the storage and 100x the random I/O capability and power supply redundancy (at least ready for it) for the exact same price; and the CPU's still won't be the limiting factor. Not to mention an expandable setup.
 

urbanracer34

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Jul 4, 2014
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I'm not sure if anyone is keeping an eye on this, but I just found a server that meets my needs. It will need some TLC and upgrades, but for $350 CAD I can swing it no problem! Lot less than $1.5K!

How does it look? HP Proliant DL180 Server | servers | Saskatoon | Kijiji

The server is also owned locally.

These are the questions I'm worried about:

Which storage can you use on this server: 3.5 inc or 2.5 inch hard drives? SAS or SATA? Capable of utilizing 3+TB drives?

Can utilize 1 processor or 2?

Which generation of ProLiant server is this one?

Those would be a deciding factor for me in buying this server.
 
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Patriot

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Apr 18, 2011
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I'm not sure if anyone is keeping an eye on this, but I just found a server that meets my needs. It will need some TLC and upgrades, but for $350 CAD I can swing it no problem! Lot less than $1.5K!

How does it look? HP Proliant DL180 Server | servers | Saskatoon | Kijiji

The server is also owned locally.

These are the questions I'm worried about:

Which storage can you use on this server: 3.5 inc or 2.5 inch hard drives? SAS or SATA? Capable of utilizing 3+TB drives?

Can utilize 1 processor or 2?

Which generation of ProLiant server is this one?

Those would be a deciding factor for me in buying this server.
Quickspecs <- these can answer more questions but I will hit the main points best I can...

It can take 2 cpus ... probably only has 1 in it... would require a model specific heatsink and more fans to (and of course a 2nd cpu) to add that option.

That is a DL180 G6 (server is 7 years old now) Gen9 just launched.

By default it does not support SAS drives... Need to ask if he has a controller in it.
(b110i is raidstack on chipset just sata support) P222 or P410 would support SAS drives.

When those were launched 2TB drives didn't yet exist... however with the latest firmware they should be supported both onboard and off a controller.



Note: You seem to have drifted from CAD workstation to headless server...
A. What is your budget?
B. What is your current type of computer build target?
 

urbanracer34

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Jul 4, 2014
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Headless server was always the intention.

I only have $350 CAD to start with, which is why I thought this server was a good idea.

Needs sata ports and IPMI.

Main Usages as stated earlier:
  • 24/7 Headless server running Ubuntu 14.04. Will be handling about almost anything, including running various torrenting apps (including rtorrent/rutorrent combo and some automation tools), Plex Media Server, file serving via Netatalk and Samba, Remote access via SSH and RealVNC, some VMs via VMware Workstation and various game servers if I ever get a bigger pipe to host them on. (5/0.6 Mbps is the pipe i’m on currently, and it sucks)