10 GB switch - questions

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Razvan

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Aug 4, 2015
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Hello,

I need to connect 3 systems having 10 GB Intel onboard nics.
Fiber/DACs/crossover cables are not an option so it has to be a switch.

Because of space, heat and power constraints, it is preferable to have one single switch having (24 x 1 GB) + (4 x 10GBase-T if possible or SFP+) ports.
Actually, most 24 port gigabit switches have 2 or 4 SFP+ uplink ports; don't remember actually seing one with 4 10GBase-T ports.
Alternatively, I could use a switch with 4-8 x 10GBase-T ports in addition to the one with 24 gigabit ports that's already available.

The switch has the following requirements:
- depth: 255mm at most (shallow wall-mount rack)
- fanless or fan-modable ;)
- managed: web or cli

The switches I was able to find (Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+, Cisco Catalyst C1000-24T-4X-L) have 4 SFP+ uplinks.

The Aruba 1930 is cheaper but has the SFP+ ports placed in a 2x2 square pattern (worse heat-wise).
The Catalyst 1000 has the SFP+ ports placed in a single line (better heat dispersion) but is much more expensive.

I have considered CRS305-1G-4S+IN but Mikrotik's guidelines advise against two S+RJ10 placed side by side.
The same argument goes for using RJ-45 SFP+ modules in the two switches above.

As a last resort a CRS309-1G-8S+IN using RJ-45 SFP+ modules in every other port could do the trick but I would rather use one without transceivers.
The XG-6PoE would have been right for my use case if it had either 2 more copper ports or no PoE.

So, what's your take on the above? Any gotchas, ideeas or recommendations for other switch models from the following categories?
1. 24 x 1 GB + 4 x 10GBase-T ports or 4 SFP+ ports (placed in a single line and spaced further apart)
2. 4/6/8 x 10GBase-T ports (fanless and managed)

Do you think I could get away with 3 or 4 RJ-45 SFP+ modules in close proximity given the current temperature inside the rack being around 38 degrees celsius?

The Aruba switch has only one 1G RJ-45 module in the accesories section. Are the 10GBase-T transceivers functional if installed in the SFP+ uplink ports?


Thanks.
 

randman

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May 3, 2020
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The RJ-45 SFP+ modules get hot. I have one MikroTik S+RJ10 SFP+ to 10Gbase-T module. It works great, but I wouldn't plan on buying a switch with the intention of using multiple of these modules in mind. See S+RJ10 general guidance - MikroTik Wiki for MikroTik's guidelines.

The Cisco SG350X-24 has 24 x 1 GB, 2 x SFP+ and 2 x 10G/SFP+ combo ports. Cisco's SG350X data sheet has specs on temperature/fan noise.
Not sure what its depth it, but it should be available on the Cisco's data sheet.
 
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Razvan

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Aug 4, 2015
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The RJ-45 SFP+ modules get hot. I have one MikroTik S+RJ10 SFP+ to 10Gbase-T module. It works great, but I wouldn't plan on buying a switch with the intention of using multiple of these modules in mind.
I was hoping that would not be the case. Now that the 4 SFP+ switches are out of the picture the focus is back on fanless, 6 to 8 port 10Gbase-T dedicated switches. CRS312-4C+8XG-RM could also be an an option as the stock fans can be swapped with noctuas.

The Cisco SG350X-24 could have been great if not for "50°C: 49.3dB". There is one report about this and and another dealing with the noise while the 10G links are in use.
 

coxhaus

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Jul 7, 2020
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The Cisco SG350X-24 switch can do layer 3 switching which is very fast compared to the MikroTik that can not as it has to use a router.
 

rippiedoos

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Mar 7, 2018
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I recently bought the Dell N1148T-ON. It's a 48-port 1G-switch with 2x2 SFP+-slots. It also comes in a 24-port config, N1124T-ON. And it is relatively cheap. And best of all, it has NO fans, so completely silent!

Or a HP A5120-24G SI This switch doesn't have SFP+-ports but only SFP, as stated below.
 
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randman

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May 3, 2020
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Currently, I'm using ZyXEL's recently released XS1930-10 Multi-Gigabit switch. It's got 8 Multi-gigabit ports and 2 x 10GbE SFP+ ports.
EDIT: see thread https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...s-on-a-multi-gigabit-1-2-5-5-10-switch.20851/.
It's got a fan, but depending on your needs, it may be quiet enough for you. In a closet, you won't hear the fan. In an office, from 2' away, it can be heard, depending on how cool (or not) the ambient temperature is. I use the switch along with an old Cisco SG200-26 switch (26 x 1GbE). The ZyXEL with the Cisco will hold me over for a while longer, although I'm looking into eventually replacing the Cisco SG200-26, since it's basically at EOL, and it would be nice to have Layer 3. I thought maybe the Cisco SG350x-24 may be a good candidate (given it has SFP+ ports that I can use to connect with the ZyXEL). I'm wondering if it would be quiet enough if only the 1 GbE ports and the SFP+ ports are used (but not the 10GbE RJ45 ports). There was supposedly a bug with the SG350x-24 that had its fans get really high only when both 10GbE RJ45 ports are used, and I'm wondering if maybe the issue was resolved (Re: SG350X-24 switch overheating, shuts down ports under low stress). I have the 8 port MikroTik SFP+ switch. I like their hardware (and price), but not a fan of their software (so far, I like Cisco software the best). I'm not familiar with Dell switches.
 
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Razvan

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Aug 4, 2015
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The SG350X-24 is indeed great and can be had for a good price. Unfortunately, given the noise reports it doesn't fullfil the noise requirements. There are some threads right here talking about fan replacements for the 350XD model. The temperature inside the enclosure is on the high side already so the switch has to give as little heat as possible and work reliably under high temperatures.

The Dell N1124T-ON is a good find but the 2x2 SFP+ placement makes for extra heat from 3 RJ-45 SFP+ crammed together.
I think HP A5120-24G SI has only SFP, so no 10gig.

Given the constraints set from the beginning (10Gbase-T, space, noise, heat) this configuration may not be possible at all: :rolleyes:
- cheaper stuff is older, using chips drawing more power, producing extra heat and requiring noisy fans
- newer suff draws less power but is much more expensive AND not available in 24G+10Gbase-T variants (AFAIK)
- managed switches (web or cli) put out extra heat

Where's the US-XG-8 (even with PoE) when you need it? ;)
 
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coxhaus

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Nobody has talked about layer 3 switching. To people that don't understand it is like using a video graphics card vs not. L3 switching is very fast.

No router can keep up with L3 switching.
 

dooferorg

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Jul 7, 2020
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The Ubiquiti Networks US-16-XG 10G has been on my radar as a 10G fiber switch for when I finally put fiber to the desktops instead of just between my server and my own desktop. Tranceivers or DACs don't seem to be too expensive (fs.com) . Maybe 16 ports is overkill? I have no idea on your topology if that would serve as a backbone switch and then have a 10G connection for a different switch with 1G ports?
 

rippiedoos

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Mar 7, 2018
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Three more options
  • TP-Link T1700G-28TQ
  • Netgear XS708T
  • Netgear XS708E
The thing is that 10GBASE-T switches get expensive really quickly. You have to pay upfront the cost of 8x that SFP+-transceiver.
Regarding the heat of those transceivers, I think the series of articles on the frontpage about these things mentioned that the older mikrotik-transceivers got really hot but newer models did not so much. And the other brands didn’t get hot either mostly IIRC.
A second note about the transceivers is that you are limited to 30M of CAT7. If the machines are all in one room or rack, that won’t be a problem, but longer cables do have problems.
 

Razvan

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Aug 4, 2015
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Thanks to everyone who took their time to answer.

For my topology US-16-XG is indeed overkill, money and port-wise.
In a dedicated 10G switch scenario the lowest requirements are 3x10G copper ports + 1 uplink; the highest being 5x10G copper ports + 2 uplinks.

The following were considered but ultimately excluded:
- Netgear ProSafe: XS708E v2, XS708T (CAT5e supported at 1G speeds only; fan noise)
- D-link DXS-1210-10TS (fan noise)
- Cisco SG350X-24 (awesome choice but noisy)

Based on the recommendations and other threads, the candidates are:

Full 10Gbase-T switches:
- ZyXEL XS1930-10
- Mikrotik CRS312-4C+8XG-RM

Combo 1G/10G switches:
- Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+
- Cisco Catalyst C1000-24T-4X-L
- TP-Link T1700G-28TQ V2 (very old firmware; one reported lock-up) - beta firmware and the V3 build from 2019 seems to be better
(I'm still on the fence about TP-Link, they don't seem to be very committed in updating this switch)

ZyXEL XS1930-10 is not readily available in my country; only one online shop has it for about $500 but they have a poor track record on warranties/customer support. Mikrotik CRS312-4C+8XG-RM is available from reasonable sellers for about $600.

I previously concluded that 4 SFP+ are out of the picture but... the Aruba 1930 is about $230 and adding 3 Wiitek SFP-10G-T modules for $135 brings the total to $365. IF this works, it will save heat, power, rack space, money and will simplify management.

I cannot buy the switch/modules at the same time and return them if they don't work as planned so, before trying this or deciding to go for a full 10G switch I would like to have a thorough understanding of things.

1. Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+ has "Maximum power rating 22.6W". Is the switch able to provide about 8W to 3 RJ45 10G modules and have enough power to operate the rest of the switch?

2. Given the above and the lack of 10G modules listed in the tech specs, one can assume the switch is not designed to be used with 10Gbase-T modules? I understand the 4 SFP+ ports are designed as fiber/DAC uplinks -- the question is "can this also work as a 3 port 10G copper switch via modules"?

3. Aruba 1930 has separated SFP+ cages and while Mikrotik doesn't recommend this, how bad is using 3 modules besides and above each other in this particular configuration? Is it "excess heat may shorten the life of electronic devices", "module shutdown due to overheating" or "why look, the RJ45 plugged in the module melted :oops:"?

4. Can someone with access to several (Wiitek) modules run a test and take (FL)IR readings of them while operating in adjacent cages (in any switch with SFP+ modules, not necessarily Aruba)? Something like this test from 2018 involving Mikrotik modules?

EDIT: Scratch requests 1-3
 
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randman

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May 3, 2020
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I'm also looking a for 24 x 1GBe + 4SFP+ switch. Unlike you, I don't need RJ45/SFP+ transceivers, since the closet that I'll be using this in also has a ZyXEL XS1930-10. I plan on connecting this Zyxel switch with this other new switch via SFP+.

I'm trying to stay with Cisco, since I like their software the best for configuration (I already have managed switches from Cisco, Zyxel, Netgear, and MikroTik; thus far, I like Cisco's manageability the best, and MikroTik the least).

Anyway, so far, I've narrowed my choices to the following (one of which is the Cisco you mentioned earlier):

Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-24PQ-LL: 24 port POE+ 4 SFP+ Fanless
Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-SM-24PQ: 24 port POE+ 4 SFP+ Fanless
Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-24TQ-LL: 24 port + 4 SFP+. Not POE. Fanless.
Cisco Catalyst C1000-24P-4X-L 24 port + 4 SFP+. Fanless.
Cisco Catalyst C1000-24T-4X-L 24 port + 4 SFP+, not poe. Fanless.

I can get POE or non-POE. Getting a POE+ switch will allow me to get rid of my existing POE switches (I have two 8-port POE+ switches), which I bought years ago, since they didn't have fans. I'm pretty impressed aforementioned Cisco POE+ switches have no fans.

I'm not sure what the difference is between the Catalyst 2960 line and the Catalyst C1000 line. When I look online, I see pretty decent sales prices for some of the Catalyst 2960 switches, but not for the Catalyst C1000 switches.

EDIT: seems Catalyst 2960-L is reaching end of life (End-of-Sale and End-of-Life Announcement for the Cisco IOS XE 3.10E(x) for Cisco Catalyst 4500-E/X Series Switches and Cisco IOS 15.2(6)E(x) for Cisco Catalyst 2960-X/XR,2960-Plus,2960-L,2960-C/CX, 3560-CX,4900,Cisco Digital Building Series Switches) and C1000 line is the replacement. Now, I see why there's good deals online for the 2960-L switches.
 
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DistantStar

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Dec 21, 2019
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I just got in a Qnap QSW-M408-2C. All of the new Qnap M408 series have 4 10gbe ports, you just pay more if you want more media type options. All models have 4 SFP+ ports, then each model above the base model adds 2 more BASE-T options. Those BASE-T ports also support 2.5 and 5 gig. It's managed and the options are pretty limited, but you do get VLAN support.
 

Camprr23

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Nov 20, 2019
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Just to let you know, I'll be ordering an Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+ as soon as I come back from holiday (end of August). I have a C3000 chassis with 10Gbit connection (direct-connect cables, so little heat), my NAS (also direct-connect) and a long-haul fibre connection (BiDi) and one 10GBase-T connection at around 30m cable length (desktop). I'll let you know how it goes. I have an IR temperature probe, but no FLIR.

To be honest, the price of this switch and the fanlessness of it, is just quite 'crazy'. I can get it here for around $200, that's quite cheap for a 4xSFP+ switch.
 

pod

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Mar 31, 2020
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Just to let you know, I'll be ordering an Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+ as soon as I come back from holiday (end of August). I have a C3000 chassis with 10Gbit connection (direct-connect cables, so little heat), my NAS (also direct-connect) and a long-haul fibre connection (BiDi) and one 10GBase-T connection at around 30m cable length (desktop). I'll let you know how it goes. I have an IR temperature probe, but no FLIR.

To be honest, the price of this switch and the fanlessness of it, is just quite 'crazy'. I can get it here for around $200, that's quite cheap for a 4xSFP+ switch.
I will be interested to know if it can take a 10Gbase-T sfp+.
 

latenorgreat

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Aug 2, 2020
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I will be interested to know if it can take a 10Gbase-T sfp+.
Looks like no from the datasheet, but it's a new switch. Would also be interested in seeing if you need the HPE coded transcievers, since they're a good bit more expensive on FS.com. I think the "normal" aruba switches have a CLI option to allow generics (but reports that was removed in recent updates?), so I'm not optimistic.
 

randman

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May 3, 2020
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I just got in a Qnap QSW-M408-2C. All of the new Qnap M408 series have 4 10gbe ports, you just pay more if you want more media type options. All models have 4 SFP+ ports, then each model above the base model adds 2 more BASE-T options. Those BASE-T ports also support 2.5 and 5 gig. It's managed and the options are pretty limited, but you do get VLAN support.
The QSW-M408-4C is also interesting. The data sheet doesn’t say anything about how loud the fans are. What’s your experience with the QSW-M408-2C?
 

Razvan

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Aug 4, 2015
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Anyway, so far, I've narrowed my choices to the following (one of which is the Cisco you mentioned earlier):

Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-24PQ-LL: 24 port POE+ 4 SFP+ Fanless
Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-SM-24PQ: 24 port POE+ 4 SFP+ Fanless
Cisco Catalyst 2960 WS-C2960L-24TQ-LL: 24 port + 4 SFP+. Not POE. Fanless.
Cisco Catalyst C1000-24P-4X-L 24 port + 4 SFP+. Fanless.
Cisco Catalyst C1000-24T-4X-L 24 port + 4 SFP+, not poe. Fanless.
I actually forgot about including C2960L-24TQ-LL on the list.
Also, the -SM models (smart managed) are cheaper if you don't require management via CLI.


I'll be ordering an Aruba 1930 24G 4SFP/SFP+ as soon as I come back from holiday (end of August). [...]
To be honest, the price of this switch and the fanlessness of it, is just quite 'crazy'. I can get it here for around $200, that's quite cheap for a 4xSFP+ switch.
The price is very good and just a little more expensive than previous generation "HPE 1920S 24G JL381A" (which has only 2 SFP not + ports). The gui looks nice and I'm wondering how it compares to the 1920s which I remember being a bit sluggish in some cases.

One possible drawback for the 1930 is the 4 minute boot time, at least for the PoE model -- the previous HPE generations 18X0/19X0 took 30 to 50 seconds to boot. The 1930 seems to be running a 30MB compressed 4.4.120 kernel based distro so the booting/uncompressing/service starting on that single cortex core could be one explanation.