Broadcom Agrees to Purchase VMware Shaking Up the Industry

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BoredSysadmin

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Great write-up Patrick. Some additional points for thought said here at the last paragraphs:
Chipmaker Broadcom to buy VMware in $61 bln deal | Reuters

Broadcom doesn't have a track record of spending big on research and development, Keith Townsend, analyst at advisory firm CTO Advisor, said.
This could bode poorly for the launch of new products at VMware, Townsend, who also had a brief stint with VMware as an enterprise data center architect, added.
"As I talk to customers, they're in desperate need for innovation from companies like VMware."
Broadcom is again (see VA and Symantec purchases) chasing the train (hot property) long after it left the station.
Everyone foot on the ground I talk to, except the largest conglomerates, are in process of going either hybrid or full cloud IT strategy. VMWare is severely behind market leaders and per the quote above, I'm far from the only one who thinks that even pre-Broadcom purchase, VMWare's innovation pace is badly lacking.

If the history of Broadcom's actions is any indicator of their future strategy, I expect this would only accelerate the move from on-prem to cloud.
 

BoredSysadmin

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Maybe we get to see QEMU and Xen becoming more popular? Heh
General virtualization is already a commodity thanks to open sources like those you mention and others. VMWare should've innovated much faster/better in regards to containers, but I think they missed the boat (pun intended)
 

zir_blazer

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General virtualization is already a commodity thanks to open sources like those you mention and others. VMWare should've innovated much faster/better in regards to containers, but I think they missed the boat (pun intended)
I recall that a few times I asked here about why when talking about virtualization, everyone defaulted to VMWare with Hyper-V coming second and only rarely mentioned QEMU or Xen, be it either professional environments or a home lab. It seems that people goes to the more popular Software available that works for them and rarely change. If this shakes things up, maybe I will see more people talking about the alternatives.
 

BoredSysadmin

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I recall that a few times I asked here about why when talking about virtualization, everyone defaulted to VMWare with Hyper-V coming second and only rarely mentioned QEMU or Xen, be it either professional environments or a home lab. It seems that people goes to the more popular Software available that works for them and rarely change. If this shakes things up, maybe I will see more people talking about the alternatives.
Funny that it goes directly against my own experiences here and every time home lab is mentioned 9 of 10 times KVM based ProxMox is recommended.
 
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Stephan

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The reason imho people are staying with VMware is Veeam for backup. Which for the most part works, a necessity in these days of blackmail encryption trojans. If they jack up prices 2-3x like Patrick writes with PLX switch chips, they will find SMB will jump ship and just use ProxMox. Works good enough. And if it doesn't, you can always buy a VMware license still.
 

BoredSysadmin

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The reason imho people are staying with VMware is Veeam for backup. Which for the most part works, a necessity in these days of blackmail encryption trojans. If they jack up prices 2-3x like Patrick writes with PLX switch chips, they will find SMB will jump ship and just use ProxMox. Works good enough. And if it doesn't, you can always buy a VMware license still.
Veem Backup already supports Nutanix as well, and before you say Nutanix is expensive, consider that VMWare is already on the path to converting all clients to subscription-based by 2025. Source: CDW. After (or IF) Broadcom sell goes thru prices would go only one way.
Another more budget-friendly alternative for SMBs will be Scale computing. 3x NUC-based Scale HE150 cluster costs around only $5k all-in - a small price to pay for N+1 hyper-converged system.
 

Stephan

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consider that VMWare is already on the path to converting all clients to subscription-based by 2025.
You make it sound certain. Add price hikes like Atlassian and you are in gambling territory on the side of management, if this works out, or leads to serious cash-flow disruption. We've been a VMware shop since the GSX Server days. Saw EMC buy VMware, IPO, then Dell, now Broadcom. Every time this happens the company loses a bunch more greybeards who drove innovation and ran the show.

Another more budget-friendly alternative for SMBs will be Scale computing. 3x NUC-based Scale HE150 cluster costs around only $5k all-in - a small price to pay for N+1 hyper-converged system.
I get the appeal of these. Small, sometimes dirt cheap, low power, excellent to get your feet wet with clustering.

But I would never recommend putting them into production. Can't expand them easily, castrated I/O capabilities due to TDP limitations, and worst, no ECC. Every administrator of IT systems amateur and pro alike should run rasdaemon and read


Unless you work for McKinsey or Accidenture where such errors create the wanted endless billable hours revenue stream. ;-)
 

oneplane

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But I would never recommend putting them into production. Can't expand them easily, castrated I/O capabilities due to TDP limitations, and worst, no ECC. Every administrator of IT systems amateur and pro alike should run rasdaemon and read
I agree that ECC is a must. If I'm not mistaken, DDR5 will not have the option to not use ECC, just the level of detection and recovery.

Right now, ECC is available as long as you don't get mid-tier Intel or low-end AMD chips; but that's of course the problem: Intel and VMWare (to just name two) want you to be locked into an expensive solution where only an expensive CPU with the option for ECC enabled, paired with an expensive PCH and an expensive NIC to run expensive virtualisation software to then run expensive licensed operating systems for an expensive RDBMS (or something else).

Meanwhile, a consumer-grade Ryzen chip, Proxmox, ZFS (or Ceph) and Postgres gets you 90% of the way there, and in reality, most business don't really seem to get beyond the basics anyway. It seems to me there is a really big gap between 'local setup' and 'big datacenter' where there used to be quite a gradient of sizes and complexities in between. The only 'growth' might be edge compute, but besides things like Dell VEP there doesn't seem to be anything vmware/hyperv out there; mostly actual edge computing with some container (be it bare or via k8s) and maybe some KVM for easier remote management and partitioning of compute resources. You can't really tape a few 48U racks to a radio tower I'd think, so it'll be either small HCI or no HCI at all and just a handful of boxes in a cabinet or on a pole.

Maybe local VDI is still the biggest "local virtualisation" thing in places where low latency/bandwidth is hard to get. But then everything else would be hard to get too. It's almost as if Broadcom buys the company post-peak on purpose.
 

BoredSysadmin

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You make it sound certain. Add price hikes like Atlassian and you are in gambling territory on the side of management, if this works out, or leads to serious cash-flow disruption. We've been a VMware shop since the GSX Server days. Saw EMC buy VMware, IPO, then Dell, now Broadcom. Every time this happens the company loses a bunch more greybeards who drove innovation and ran the show.

I get the appeal of these. Small, sometimes dirt cheap, low power, excellent to get your feet wet with clustering.

But I would never recommend putting them into production. Can't expand them easily, castrated I/O capabilities due to TDP limitations, and worst, no ECC. Every administrator of IT systems amateur and pro alike should run rasdaemon and read


Unless you work for McKinsey or Accidenture where such errors create the wanted endless billable hours revenue stream. ;-)
On VMWare subscription. As I've said I didn't read online somewhere on 4chan but heard it myself of a VMWare sales specialist working a major technology VAR - CDW. These are that person's words, not mine. As far as it would likely increase under Broadcom, that is a logical estimation.

I've seen initial Scale demos where they specifically talked about using a high-speed Thunderbolt port for internal traffic/storage replication, but after talking to Scale and watching their product demo, that feature somehow was scrapped. It is indeed very unfortunate as running hyper-converged on a 1gig backbone network is really far from ideal. That said, it still has its uses in many environments. As for the lack of ECC, it is debatable, but as far as I know, other 1U and larger Scale nodes do support it, alas costing more (still less than comparable Nutanix cluster)
 
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BoredSysadmin

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It's almost as if Broadcom buys the company post-peak on purpose.
Agreed.
Then is the last time you've seen a CA or Symantec product listed recommended by Gartner for example?
I don't doubt that VMWare still has the most polished and stable on-prem virtualization platform, but it's not enough. Imo vSphere 7 should've introduced native containers running directly on ESXi (or ESXi direct replacement) and a simple vcenter management, instead of isolating it to a separate product.
 

AdrianBc

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I agree that ECC is a must. If I'm not mistaken, DDR5 will not have the option to not use ECC, just the level of detection and recovery.
No, the relationship between ECC and DDR5 has caused a lot of confusion.

Because the reliability of the DRAM cells has decreased in modern memories, all DDR5 chips will use ECC internally, to restore the memory reliability to be at the traditional levels, exactly like the flash memories used in SSDs use error-correcting codes internally, otherwise their reliability would be unacceptable.

In any reliable computer, it is required to use an end-to-end ECC, between the CPU and the memory cells, in order to detect (and correct when possible) all the errors, not only those caused by faults in the memory cells, but also the errors caused by electrical noise, oxidized contacts in the DIMM sockets, and so on.

The DDR5 unbuffered DIMMs are available in ECC and in non-ECC variants, exactly like the DDR4 UDIMMs.

The ECC DDR5 UDIMMs have a width of 80, instead of the 72 width of ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, because 1 DDR5 UDIMM has two 32-bit memory channels, instead of one 64-bit memory channel, like DDR4. In DDR5, each 32-bit channel is extended by 8 bits, becoming a 40-bit memory channel with ECC.

Unfortunately, for now, the ECC DDR5 UDIMMs cost almost double the price of the ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, but hopefully their price will decrease towards the end of the year.

Most of the new motherboards with the W680 chipset for the Alder Lake i3/i5/i7/i9 CPUs need ECC DDR5 UDIMMs, but there is at least one such MB (from Gigabyte) which still uses the old ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, to take advantage of their much lower price.

The AM5 boards for Zen 4 that will support ECC will also need ECC DDR5 UDIMMs, to enable the ECC function.
 
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oneplane

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No, the relationship between ECC and DDR5 has caused a lot of confusion.

Because the reliability of the DRAM cells has decreased in modern memories, all DDR5 chips will use ECC internally, to restore the memory reliability to be at the traditional levels, exactly like the flash memories used in SSDs use error-correcting codes internally, otherwise their reliability would be unacceptable.

In any reliable computer, it is required to use an end-to-end ECC, between the CPU and the memory cells, in order to detect (and correct when possible) all the errors, not only those caused by faults in the memory cells, but also the errors caused by electrical noise, oxidized contacts in the DIMM sockets, and so on.

The DDR5 unbuffered DIMMs are available in ECC and in non-ECC variants, exactly like the DDR4 UDIMMs.

The ECC DDR5 UDIMMs have a width of 80, instead of the 72 width of ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, because 1 DDR5 UDIMM has two 32-bit memory channels, instead of one 64-bit memory channel, like DDR4. In DDR5, each 32-bit channel is extended by 8 bits, becoming a 40-bit memory channel with ECC.

Unfortunately, for now, the ECC DDR5 UDIMMs cost almost double the price of the ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, but hopefully their price will decrease towards the end of the year.

Most of the new motherboards with the W680 chipset for the Alder Lake i3/i5/i7/i9 CPUs need ECC DDR5 UDIMMs, but there is at least one such MB (from Gigabyte) which still uses the old ECC DDR4 UDIMMs, to take advantage of their much lower price.

The AM5 boards for Zen 4 that will support ECC will also need ECC DDR5 UDIMMs, to enable the ECC function.
Now that makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking it was about. I had a similar issue with ECC in HDDs where the on-disk ECC, DRAM cache ECC and interface ECC (or usually FEC?) were used interchangeably as "this drive has ECC". In a way you'd think that a development of DIMMS without a register but with ECC should be possible at some point. The whole non-ECC, ECC-but-without-a-register and ECC-with-a-register seems a bit segmentation for the sake of segmentation. Maybe there are actual silicon limitations where you can't produce NAND dies with ECC logic as cheaply as dies without it? Heck, if we can have ECC memory without a register, why bother making yet another series of SKU that don't have a register and also don't have ECC. Just ECC everything and let the host CPU decide :confused:
 

oneplane

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Maybe I've should've listened to this gent a bit more back in 2016:

p.s: @oneplane why funny?
Funny because it was very predictable (and predicted) and then a bunch of new articles present it as super big news while all it really was is a "well duh" moment. Even their container offering is behind the curve as is their Kubernetes stuff. It seems they went down the complacency route and "keep existing customers happy" which seems to be the curse of companies that get a high acceptance/buy rate to then get stuck in. The only way to make more money at that point is keeping the people who are locked in already but making them pay more via a subscription.
 

BoredSysadmin

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Funny because it was very predictable (and predicted) and then a bunch of new articles present it as super big news while all it really was is a "well duh" moment. Even their container offering is behind the curve as is their Kubernetes stuff. It seems they went down the complacency route and "keep existing customers happy" which seems to be the curse of companies that get a high acceptance/buy rate to then get stuck in. The only way to make more money at that point is keeping the people who are locked in already but making them pay more via a subscription.
fair enough. The reason I posted it as re-enforce my own other sources on the fact VMWare was already on the path to the subscription model, but someone above didn't quite believe me on that.
 

i386

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Wondering if this could be the end of the free esxi version and vmware workstation...
 

BoredSysadmin

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Wondering if this could be the end of the free esxi version and vmware workstation...
I bet that the free ESXi is definitely on the chopping block. Their intentions aren't to expand the market base, to milk out as much as possible from existing customers. Free ESXi goes very much against that idea.
Workstation Pro is already a paid product, but Workstation Player - allowing only 1 VM at a time could survive as free for non-commercial use as it is now.