Silverstone DS380: ITX 8x SAS/Sata Hotswap

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AZengus

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Jun 24, 2014
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Hah, it's mainly a Media Server/NAS build for me (currently!). I'm planning on installing FreeNAS or virtualizing it for now; if I have any other fun ideas this build may be versatile enough for me to expand upon (14x SATA, Dual-LAN and an 8x PCI-E slot, although the choice of PSU may limit my options for what to put in there). Oh, there is a build of Plex Media Server for FreeNAS so I may be running that as well (as opposed to virtualizing Linux to run that). So, a bit simpler I think, compared to what you are doing.

TBH I grew up building computers but I only tinkered with consumer builds, this is my first attempt at something more "professional". I'm just going to build it and see what I can do with it, maybe gain some experience along the way.

By the way, if you work on a ton of builds you should considering getting Newegg Premier. It's $50/annually but they'll offer free shipping on all orders and free returns (they cover return shipping and RMA fees); it's great if you're experimenting and you're not certain a part is what you want... If you build a lot of computers I reckon you'll either save money or at least break even every year. I think I broke even at this point, and I'm only three months into my subscription (I'm returning that long SeaSonic PSU for free, and I saved on shipping costs on this and another computer that I've built from scratch).

And Haswell-E is coming out later this year - that might help solve your lane problem? It would likely be pretty expensive though... maybe hop onto eBay and see if there are engineering samples post-launch - don't know if I would officially recommend that though, might not be reliable
 
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wlee

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abulafia, thanks for the posts and photos. I'm considering the same mobo so have to go with Flex ATX psu, I couldn't imagine how does the right angel bracket help to secure the far end of the psu in chassis? Is it screwed onto chassis? SFX would sit one side on the chassis' rail/bar, but Flex 1U would be like hanging in the air.

I'm thinking to get this 400W from newegg.ca, being in Canada my choice is limited. It seems come with the bracket. see this photo, 400W should allow to fully loaded hdd.

Xeon E3, considering 1231 v3, do I need to get the ones with on-chip graphics? The pci-e slot will be NIC card.

Thanks.
 
dataoscar

dataoscar

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Get the Xeon without graphics. It will not be used. The mono uses its own VGA controller that works with ikvm.
 
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abulafia

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Yes, skip the IGP Xeons, it's cheaper, and will draw about 5W less power. The board has IPMI with KVM, which means it has its own VGA chip which the BMC hooks into.

As far as the PSU, yes, in a sense, it's hanging in space. Here's the thing. It's just about flush with every surface it comes in contact with. For it to fall, it would have to be completely downwards - it would have to shear all the screws from stress. But, those screws and the PSU rear plate were designed to suspend a PSU twice the weight. Because it's flush, it can't pivot, because it (the side that rises) will meet resistance/press against the chassis.

The right angle bracket has two holes on each panel. One of those panels, the one where the holes are closer together (if memory serves [edit: it does, see below]) makes a perfect fit: when one bracket hole is screwed into the top chassis PSU hole further from the motherboard,


the second hole on the bracket lines up with the top hole on the PSU furthest from the motherboard:

And just like the PSU being flush against the surface, it's a right angle bracket - it has a protrusion that lies flat against the top of the case, and is also flush against two axes of the PSU enclosure. You'll also note that I put a third screw in, in the downmost PSU hole, the middle (optional SFX) hole close to the motherboard. It doesn't go through anything other than the PSU itself, but acts as a friction/tension lock to help resist against pitching in either direction.

If you're still nervous, you can always supplement the bracket/screws with industrial velcro. I've done that with other PSUs, specifically where I wasn't fighting gravity, but wanted to have more resistance when plugging in a cable.
I didn't do it here. What you absolutely should not do is use Velcro alone. The heat will soften the tape glue and you will drop the PSU straight down at some point.

Remember, the 250 Seasonic PSU weighs 2.2lbs/1kg. It doesn't take a lot to keep it up. If you wanted to be fancy, take aluminum sheet, cut the sheet's width to the long axis of SFX (125mm), bend at the short axis of SFX (63.5mm) so that you have a rectangle 125x63.5mm

and then leave whatever protrusion on top that makes you feel comfortable, nibble out a Flex ATX window in the SFX "blank" while leaving material to tap/screw into the PSU and the chassis.


You can see why what I did works - the two top mounting holes on a SFX PSU are 113mm apart. The two holes I used, the "top" holes (to the right, in the Flex ATX diagram above are) are: the one furthest from the C14 pins (bottom right in the Flex ATX diagram above, 4.4mm "up" from the edge) and the more inset top hole (in the diagram above, right, adjacent to the "middle" of the C14 pins, 15.2mm in from the edge). So, those two holes are (81.5mm -4.4mm -15.2mm) = 61.9mm apart.

So, now imagine that Flex ATX and SFX are sharing the hole furthest from the C14 pins, (in the SFX diagram above, the top right, in the Flex ATX diagram just above, the bottom right). To secure a Flex ATX PSU, we need a centered hole at 61.9mm away, and to secure to a SFX PSU frame, we need a hole centered an additional (113mm - 61.9mm) = 51.1mm further. Well, its getting late, but I found a spare bracket and with my little Mitutoyo 6" rule, and what do you know...


The one I used didn't have those countersunk holes next to them, but these brackets always have the threaded holes. Now you'll note that in the standards diagram there's tolerances, but 6-32 screws are so coarse pitched that they are already practically taps on their own... you shouldn't need a power tool to torque it in (if it's even necessary).

All of this is YMMV, of course, but this setup has been running for half a year now.
 
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Patrick

Patrick

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Seems like an adapter could be fashioned to make that cleaner (if you care) the only reason it may matter is if you do want to have a little bit more pressure in the case.
 
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abulafia

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Absolutely true Patrick, though the advantage to this is that a suitable adapter (essentially a cantilever bracket extension) to meet the SFX frame holes is included (or at least should be, given the problems mentioned by AZengus, but I'm 2/2 or 3/3) free with a PSU perfect for this case's use, no metal work skills - and I'm not a machinist by any stretch of the definition.

Also, if that amount of pressure is make or break, the plastic, unvented bays are going to kill you way before an exhaust hole will, especially if you're taxing an 80 Bronze 250W PSU.
That said... if it is desired, and the "proper" sheet aluminum bending adapter method described above is out of the question, and are looking to use materials STH folk might have around the house...

Method II:
1. Mount the PSU with this trick (N.B. attach the bracket to the PSU first, treat it as an extension/adapter)*
2. Then get one of these which can also can be found at any Home Depot if you prefer brick and mortar stores.
3. Now grab one of these types of junky drive adapters.
4. Cut window for Flex ATX PSU. Always remember that you can cut easily. Adding material... not so much.
5. Tap 6-32 holes in correct places for SFX frame. By all means, use your own case as a template.
(5a)-If no tap/die, centerpunch and drill (#36 bit formally, but the point is to make a .1 inch hole, minor diameter of 6-32 being just a bit bigger).
(5b)-If no center punch, use a safety pin to etch the anodized coating, drill a guide hole, then .1 as above)
(N.B. It's always a good idea to put some wood under and in direct contact with the metal so as not to turn off in a non perpendicular direction, also as a safety buffer).
-OR-
6. As an alternative to 5 you can go larger and not thread for 6-32, but use a bolt/nut, but this will be less precise.

* You could skip this and turn the drive adapter into the mount adapter as well as a cover. I wouldn't.
Personally, I'll trust Seasonic engineers to pick/source a support bracket of sufficient material engineering to support their PSU
over a non/insignificant load bearing 2.5 adapter made of "black metal material." I have used these adapters for support purposes.
I have not had any failures.
I also haven't done it for long.
I've also been able to tap threads through them with a $3 screwdriver bit holder, a screw, and very little elbow grease.

Method III
1. Grab some dinky zinc/whatever alloy PCIe vented slot covers, lay them flat, flux edges, push together, lay a book on one side, solder, move book, cut to size.
you can even treat it like a picket fence and put some perpendicularly, especially with nuts/bolts..
-Advantage is that this stuff is very soft to cut, and essentially preventilated for a fan, but ugh, I wouldn't want to heat that metal.

Honestly, it's not hard. Just be afraid of tools and also unafraid to use them. Consider the area, eye protection, ventilation, dust/swarf control.
Flying debris does not require an electric motor to happen. Corneas are expensive.
Make sure you're clamped and drilling at the right speeds and with the right bit and (type, material, coating) coolant if needed (mostly for steel, but doesn't hurt, also binds to swarf).
Another -and massive- YMMV.
 
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abulafia

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wleee, that looks like an excellent option. SFX is pretty much symmetric - and that adapter has the second middle hole so I can't see why that adapter wouldn't work (or was intended to work) in any orientation.
 
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wlee

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If the holes are threaded, may have to remove the thread and use a longer screw 6-32?

I will order a few to test it out, will have to ask someone in China to order to ship to me, it's going to take a while.
 
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abulafia

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I thought about that; I wouldn't worry too much.

I did forget that in my hack it seems that (the smaller) set of holes on the Flex ATX adapter are threaded M3.
I don't recall if mine was different (like how the unthreaded countersunk holes are missing), but even if so, it's only a concern in the middle (where the screw goes into the PSU). That said, the number of times I've accidentally put a 6-32 where an M3 goes, let alone intentionallly... besides, since the screw goes into the PSU, ideally it should be threadless on the "adapter" anyway.
 
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abulafia

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Though I think the frame wlee found is the best approach, not least of all because it looks to support exhaust fans with minimal modding, I'm going to add any more notes that I think relevant to anyone looking to use the Seasonic 250 Flex ATX kit as I did because it still has the advantage of working "out of the box" and has a readily available supply chain for North America and the EU.

Frankly, I don't think there's much to say beyond this post, but I wanted to share this because I just came across one of the right angle brackets that Seasonic supplies with the PSU. It's not just different from the adapter I photographed over the last few days.
It's notably better - perfect even - for this hack, and probably why I tried it in the first place:

The short holes are larger, unthreaded, and countersunk which allows more wiggle room. It's also perfectly spaced and centered at 51.1mm to the accuracy I can measure (I need better calipers, I trust this $6 slide more). I don't recall if (but assume) I used a 6-32 nut to secure the outer SFX (113mm) which is even better, much like square hole racks are better than prethreaded.

I don't think there's more to add, certainly not on this point, but if requested, I can see if I can dig up more photographs from the build process. I took a bunch because at the time, while there was interest in using the extended ITX boards with the DS380, I had yet to see anyone mount one with an internal AC power supply (I didn't see any picoPSU builds either, but I assume someone did it) so I assumed it might help someone down the road. Also, this wasn't the first Q&D hack I used to mount the PSU (in fact, I just found an expansion slot cover that's drilled with .5mm holes spaced 51mm apart) but the others are better forgotten.

Somewhat OT: I will say that if you are going to go off the beaten path - and even if not, even if just whiteboxing or repairing - a $20 mechanical hand nibbler, a $6 slide rule, and even a $10 centerpunch (though I really love my internal spring Starrett) really are essential tools; I assume anyone who is of a mindset to do this stuff already has either a $60 corded drill or a $100 12V Li-Ion cordless - and that buys some very good (Bosch/Makita/Milwaukee) stuff. Add some clamps (or even just heavy stuff) and some scrap wood (mine is straight off the corner in midtown Manhattan) and you'll be free to "make stuff work" somehow.

I'm doing all this in - LAN/WAN buildout, storage arrays, etc. - in support of photographic and mixed media art, so I have no problem adding things like Chicago Latrobe drill bits to my kit because I have(/have had) to build lots of stuff in order to build stuff, and I'm not suggesting anyone buy $150 drill bit sets.

A $15 Milwaukee or Bosch set - whatever's on special at Home Depot - some Tap Magic, and some reading or instruction with a safety first mindset (e.g. please don't confuse an impact driver with a drill, especially with non-impact rated bits) gets you 90% of the way there, especially with the thin sheet metal used in chassis/computers, and it's a great idea to add stepped bits ($5 a piece on Amazon, $12 for a three piece kit) for counter sinking and some taps for the common computer and rackmount thread sizes. Add an oscillating tool (I've cut 1/4" mild steel with a handheld 12V) and you can do things like make the (often missing) rack ears to match the screw holes for the enterprise stuff on eBay, etc.
 
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AZengus

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Jun 24, 2014
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So,

I was busy and had some problems with SeaSonic support - they made attempts to ship it but they messed up my address... on the second try I had them ship to my workplace and they screwed that up too, when they forgot to put a floor #. They kind of gave up, BUT eventually I was able to pick it up from a UPS center halfway across the city.

This was happening over the course of two weeks so I slowed down; I had to work on other stuff. I had some time this weekend though, and finished the build. I'll post some pictures of what it looks like and issues I encountered...

First - if you're installing an expansion card in the PCI-E slot, like I said earlier there isn't a lot of clearance if you want to use the only USB 3.0 header on the board, or keep the drive bay slot. I ended up installing a Zotac GTX 750 Ti, which was less than 1" shy of bumping into the header:



There's also an additional complication from installing an expansion card... I wasn't able to keep that plastic support bracket on - it kept bumping into the graphics card, so I had to remove it to reinstall the drive bay (due to space constraints there really isn't a way to install the drive bay first and then the expansion card... the bracket will need to be taken off):



This will leave the slot a bit loose... but it's still usable as long as you keep pressure on the top lip of the drive sleeve as you slide them in, otherwise they might get caught out of position on the empty space of what used to be the left corner:




I tried to keep it neat but ultimately you can't do much with such limited space; if you intend to use the top 3.5" bays and the interior 2.5" drive bay, you'll need to be careful as it is very tight there (4+ SATA cables, 2 SATA power adapters):



I also recommend buying SATA power splitters as the Seasonic 250W PSU only comes with two SATA power adapters; I bought some and plan to install them later. Some of the cabling is looped around the fans as there is some space to thread through there; I'm going to use some twist-ties later to keep the cables tied down (and pointing away from the exhaust fan blades).

Here's a picture of the rear of the case post-installation:



A bit ghetto, using a piece of white cardboard/oaktag to cover up the open area (it's held down by the screws and tape), but it's sufficient. The bracket itself holds up perfectly fine; since the A/C inlet juts out slightly from the PSU it provides a counterbalance to where where the screw is holding it up in the middle, so for all intents and purposes it holds straight from left to right.

Edit: abulafia mentioned a tight fit with the PSU cables but I didn't have that issue. I ended up looping them in on the space below the expansion card, not above:

 
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AZengus

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TonyA

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Guys

Has anyone thought of using this mobo with this case....

ECS Web Site > H61H2-MV (V3.0)

As it's smaller then Mini-DTX it could well fit (I've tried to find out the exact positioning of the PCI-e slots without success at the moment, but as the DS380 is supposed to be able to take a Mini-DTX board it could well fit and give two PCI-e slots.
 
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buyang

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Jun 18, 2015
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I know this thread is old but I just want to share that this was able to help me build my own solution on fitting the asrock extended mini itx motherboard in a silverstone ds380 case.

For the PSU, I bought HDPlex 250W(400w peak) and used a Dell Alienware 330w powerbrick. HDPLEX-250W-Hi-Fi-DC-ATX-Power-Supply (16V-24V Wide Range Voltage Input)

To cover the blank space left by not putting an sfx psu on the back, I bought a blanking plate from ecosmartpc and drilled the necessary holes for the power adapter connector.
Accessories
 
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buyang

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MatrixMJK said:
Thanks for the notes on that power supply! How many and what type of drives are you using in the case? Just wondering if the power draw of the drives might keep the PS close to peak to much of the time.
Click to expand...
I have 4x 3.5in 2TB WD Red drives, 2x SSDs and 2x 2.5 1TB HGST hard drives. The machine is idling at about 70-80w and under 120w if I tried running the CPU on full load.
 
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MatrixMJK

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Thank you for the info. I'm going to give that PS combo a try in my ds380 to un-clutter the inside.
 
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