AMD EPYC 7003 Milan The Fast Gets Faster

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alex_stief

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May 31, 2016
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I didn't find it in the article, or in any other article I read: what's the time-frame for actual availability? I.e. when can I buy an Epyc Milan CPU from my usual retailers?
 

Patrick

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Dec 21, 2010
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@Rand__ Yea this was a rough one. We had to pull a featured server at 3AM which was in the article and the video. 30 minutes to render the video, 30 minutes to upload, and <5 hours until launch. It was amazing to see how much was moving in and out of this one compared to Rome. Part of that is just that we had a compressed review timeline.

@alex_stief I am not sure at retail, but you can order systems today. If you call Supermicro, Dell, and others they are already out. HPE I think is in ~3 weeks or so. Many of the servers are the Rome servers with updated BIOS, but there are companies launching new product lines for Milan.

So a bit hard to answer the question, but it is going to be much faster than another vendor's upcoming launch.
 

alex_stief

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May 31, 2016
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Yeah I'm not too interested in buying a complete system just to get the CPUs. As far as I am concerned, availability starts when I can buy the part.
 
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Evan

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Jan 6, 2016
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If you read Ian’s and Andrei’s test for AnandTech they concluded the idle power is way up and that this is then also limiting peak performance even with the TDP increase, also the biggest performance increase is seen on lower core counts either due to this and the access to the huge L3 cache. Let’s see if maybe @Patrick can also get a quick look at idle power to confirm.

Its a step forward for performance for sure but not as huge as the earlier Xen releases. Intel won‘t be able to compete on number of cores but maybe it has some advantages for power and so on.
 

kingmouf

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Jun 15, 2016
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If you read Ian’s and Andrei’s test for AnandTech they concluded the idle power is way up and that this is then also limiting peak performance even with the TDP increase, also the biggest performance increase is seen on lower core counts either due to this and the access to the huge L3 cache. Let’s see if maybe @Patrick can also get a quick look at idle power to confirm.

Its a step forward for performance for sure but not as huge as the earlier Xen releases. Intel won‘t be able to compete on number of cores but maybe it has some advantages for power and so on.
I think that to a certain degree this was to be expected. Can't make all those performance changes in the same manufacturing process and expect that power wont be hit.

Overall though I think this is a bloodbath for Intel. Unless we see something totally unexpected in their imminent launch, I believe that they are in serious trouble. The only potential issue for AMD I can see is availability. If they are not able to deliver (like they have done in their consumer lineups) then Intel is going to get a lot of orders no matter how good or bad their upcoming Xeons end up being.
 

alex_stief

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Let's just hope that AMD has been stockpiling all the good dies for Epyc CPUs, and that's the reason why they could not meet demand for their Zen3 Ryzen CPUs o_O
 
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kingmouf

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Let's just hope that AMD has been stockpiling all the good dies for Epyc CPUs, and that's the reason why they could not meet demand for their Zen3 Ryzen CPUs o_O
My lab is planning to order two Milan-based dell servers, so I guess we will find out quite soon whether those are readily available or there is quite some time for true availability.
 

zir_blazer

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Dec 5, 2016
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If you read Ian’s and Andrei’s test for AnandTech they concluded the idle power is way up and that this is then also limiting peak performance even with the TDP increase, also the biggest performance increase is seen on lower core counts either due to this and the access to the huge L3 cache. Let’s see if maybe @Patrick can also get a quick look at idle power to confirm.

Its a step forward for performance for sure but not as huge as the earlier Xen releases. Intel won‘t be able to compete on number of cores but maybe it has some advantages for power and so on.
I'm also curious about what the hell happened to Idle power consumption. The new IO die seems... inferior. What it does that Rome one doesn't that justifies that? Cause I would be expecting for power consumption to go lower, not higher.



Also, the availability thing is critical. Actually, given the scarcity and above-MSRP of Ryzen 5xxx series on Desktop, it could even be worth considering whenever the EPYC 7313 at 1083 U$D coupled with a more expensive Server Motherboard can work as a competent Ryzen 5950X replacement. The cons are much higher power consumption, especially at Idle, and a whole 1.2 GHz lower turbo clock. I'm also worried about it being a 4-CPU die part instead of 2, which would really crush it due to CCD-to-CCD latency and smaller Cache L3 per CCD. But hey, you still get all the EPYC features.
 

alex_stief

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Based on the amount of L3 cache, all except one SKU (7453) have at least 4 dies active. Since I like memory bandwidth, I think that's a good thing. People more concerned with intra-CPU latencies might come to a different conclusion.
Epyc 7453 is a bit weird. Anandtech lists the L3 configuration as "4x16MB". Which I did not think was possible now that a die no longer houses 2 CCX. So maybe even that one has 4 dies, but with half the L3 cache on each die deactivated.

About the higher (idle) power consumption: could it be that the 1:1 ratio of IMC and Infinity fabric with DDR4-3200 plays a role in that? If I am not mistaken, Rome switched to a 2:1 ratio with DDR4-3200, runing IF at a much lower clock speed.
 
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Patrick

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So a couple of things:
  1. Idle power consumption is up, 100% on that one. On the other hand, it is somewhat the wrong way to look at AMD v. Intel power consumption at the CPU level. Intel CPUs have a PCH, with is 15W+ TDP. For the high-end parts we tested, you have to remember we are talking 2:1 consolidation versus Intel. So the comparison is likely two systems to one. That may sound strange, but it is the state of things. Ice Lake I expect will not make it 2:1, but I think the industry is clear that AMD is on top this round.
  2. One of the big changes was the IF-Mem clock sync. The IO die got a bit of a boost. That is what it is. 100% I would trade that for higher idle. Or another way to say it, I prefer Milan came out with a non-7nm I/O die so that way we get higher chip volume.
  3. We had a Supermicro review unit that arrived today that went through the normal manufacturing process instead of being built by a lab or something. So the chips are out there and systems are being shipped.
The way I have been explaining the launch to folks is that AMD EPYC 7003 "Milan" is effectively designed for performance only, not for lower-end boxes. That is why we still have Rome at the bottom of the SKU stack. AMD basically saw they would have a massive advantage at 32-48C and up so that is where the stack is highly optimized. Form a chip perspective, if you have a sunk cost of an I/O die in either case, you would want to bias your stack to higher core count, parts where you have a competitive advantage and get more margin because $/core is higher. With that said, yes, I do still want the 72F3 since that part is crazy.

@ericloewe thanks for that. We had a late change so I ended up sleeping at 6:30AM before the 8AM go-live. Needless to say, under-sleeping heavily these days.
 
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alaeh

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Aug 24, 2019
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wiredzone is selling epyc milan now although only 7763 and 7713P are in stock at the moment while the rest are MFG drop ship.
 

Mace

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Feb 3, 2021
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Yeah, F5-ing that....Luckely, the Asrock Rack ROMED8-2T seems reasonably available still
 

kingmouf

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Jun 15, 2016
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Any word/expectation on availability in Europe/Netherlands?
I tried to configure a Dell server (7525) and no Milan parts were available. Only in the US dell site configurator some 7003 options were available.

However Dell/AMD were running promo discounts on the 7002 parts and the price is much more attractive. I am seriously thinking to write a suggestion to buy those instead of waiting for an unknown period when the new parts will be available. I can use the discounts/price difference between 7002/7003 chips to buy "more" of a server (i.e. equip with higher amounts of memory, storage or networking capabilities in the same budget).

I wanted to ask though the situation with dell-only EPYC CPUs. If down the road we want to upgrade those servers to 7003 series CPUs, can we buy merchant chips from the open market or are we going to have to buy exclusively from Dell (and pay Dell prices)?