HGST 10TB He10 and Intel 200GB S3700

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Samir

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Would you rather have 5 year old brakes from a Lamborghini or brand new breaks from a Honda on your car?
Since Lambo brakes are typically carbon ceramic with much, much beefier calipers and a 2 piece-rotor for less unsprung weight versus my stock accord rotor and calipers--Lambo yes please!! :D Especially since Lambo drivers aren't has hard on their brakes as I am on my Accord. :D

I guess you should have known I was a huge car enthusiast that has a lot of big brake upgrades on his cars before you posted that. :D
 

Samir

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Nice drive but yeah I'll personally stick with the WD RED just because I use them for a NAS and the lower power and heat are of major importance. If I was actually going for a performance system these would be the absolute winner between the two.
If power and heat are the main issue, then performance or longevity isn't. There's going to be a trade off somewhere between price, power/performance/reliability. I'll take a reliable performance drive even if it's a bit more versus a cheaper drive with less of a lifespan.
 

Samir

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Well this drive is 179, if you find me a deal for less that might be more appealing. All I am trying to do is analyze this "deal" as someone who is trying to build a file server currently and it doesn't appear that economical compared with the alternatives. I can build an 8 drive array with the SAS 7200 drives or 12 5400 drives for the same price.
The longevity of your array vs the size requirements is what you would be analyzing in this scenario if the price is fixed. I've never seen a 5400rpm drive last like an enterprise 7200rpm--they're just differently built animals ime.
 

ViciousXUSMC

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If power and heat are the main issue, then performance or longevity isn't. There's going to be a trade off somewhere between price, power/performance/reliability. I'll take a reliable performance drive even if it's a bit more versus a cheaper drive with less of a lifespan.
Possible, not guaranteed (giving up performance and longevity at cost)

I have HDD's that are eons old and still work and those are your run of the mill consumer drives.
The RED's are a higher tier NAS drive that are made for long life and reliability (3 year warranty I think?)

Inside somewhere are the same platters, and a lot of the same parts.

The largest difference IMO is the enterprise is SAS and consumer is SATA and the cost/warranty. As a SAN/Backup Admin I have seen them fail on me at the same rates.

Anybody that works in enterprise knows enterprise is overpriced because businesses are expected to spend money in ways consumers are not. I mean paying $1500 for a Cisco or HP SFP module that works exactly the same as a $40 module from a different brand.

We have full blown high end enterprise servers like we use for Veeam loaded up with 10TB enterprise drives, and I have hand built some secondary storage for fun out of old servers with consumer (RED) drives. Both systems under the same load, they are lasting the same.

At home I use a R710 with 6x 8TB RED and have not had a single error or failure in about 2 years, and I am most likely going to load up my R510 with 10x 10TB REDs once I have the spending money.

That many drives running 24/7 at home. Yes the heat/power/noise is important to me and for reliability that is why I use RAID. The cost savings alone means I can refresh the drives to new ones based on the math done by another member. It was what $400 over 5 years and I can buy a new 10TB drive for $180? So I can build a new server in about 2 years just in the cost savings. I think a 2 year old RED has better bets than taking your enterprise drive out to 5 years.

Not everybody is the same when it comes to income, needs, or usage so no one size fits all but I try to sit where one size fits most :)
 

Samir

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Possible, not guaranteed (giving up performance and longevity at cost)

I have HDD's that are eons old and still work and those are your run of the mill consumer drives.
The RED's are a higher tier NAS drive that are made for long life and reliability (3 year warranty I think?)

Inside somewhere are the same platters, and a lot of the same parts.

The largest difference IMO is the enterprise is SAS and consumer is SATA and the cost/warranty. As a SAN/Backup Admin I have seen them fail on me at the same rates.

Anybody that works in enterprise knows enterprise is overpriced because businesses are expected to spend money in ways consumers are not. I mean paying $1500 for a Cisco or HP SFP module that works exactly the same as a $40 module from a different brand.

We have full blown high end enterprise servers like we use for Veeam loaded up with 10TB enterprise drives, and I have hand built some secondary storage for fun out of old servers with consumer (RED) drives. Both systems under the same load, they are lasting the same.

At home I use a R710 with 6x 8TB RED and have not had a single error or failure in about 2 years, and I am most likely going to load up my R510 with 10x 10TB REDs once I have the spending money.

That many drives running 24/7 at home. Yes the heat/power/noise is important to me and for reliability that is why I use RAID. The cost savings alone means I can refresh the drives to new ones based on the math done by another member. It was what $400 over 5 years and I can buy a new 10TB drive for $180? So I can build a new server in about 2 years just in the cost savings. I think a 2 year old RED has better bets than taking your enterprise drive out to 5 years.

Not everybody is the same when it comes to income, needs, or usage so no one size fits all but I try to sit where one size fits most :)
WD Red NAS drives aren't the same as the HGST enterprise ones with a 5yr warranty. There's build quality and optimization differences for sure in terms of longevity and things the consumer cares about like noise (which enterprise doesn't).

I've seen a different side to the enterprise/consumer coin where consumer drives don't really hold up to the longevity of enterprise drives. Granted, this has changed in the last decade or so with consolidation in the drive manufacturers as well as general quality improvements across the board, but there still is a difference that I can tell.

Now, your point about refreshing drives is extremely valid. With 10TB 'shucked' drives available for $160, you can move a raid5/6 system to raid0+1 and be at virtually the same cost with better potential reliability. (And as an aside raid should never be used for reliability except possibly in the case of raid1 as raid systems cannot really survive multiple drive or controller failures well. I cut my teeth on this back in the 1990s with SCSI raid.)

But then do you really want to have to build or update a storage unit every 1-2 years? There's a cost to this as well as labor is not free (or even cheap). Personally, I'd rather do more 'set and forget' setups for what I rely on vs setups I need to tinker with regularly (no matter how fun that may be :D).
 

ServerSemi

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Jan 12, 2017
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I agree with Propaganda. These drives are slightly better than regular red but the value isnt there at $179 considering they only have 30 days warranty. Also if you really need the reliability of enterprise hdd for your production environment you won't be buying them used with no warranty that makes no sense
 
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hatchi

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Nov 8, 2014
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I agree with Propaganda. These drives are slightly better than regular red but the value isnt there at $179 considering they only have 30 days warranty. Also if you really need the reliability of enterprise hdd for your production environment you won't be buying them used with no warranty that makes no sense

For enterprise situation warranty is not that important ,
the main issue is reliability . You will have really big trouble if several disks failed together and you lost some data. even single disk failure is a pain if you need to resilver or rebuild the array , specially with such large disks

So for me for example I look at warranty from financial point of view , for example if disk with warranty will increase the price 20% maybe thats a good deal but if warranty means the disk is double the price I would go with disk with no warranty as long as it is enterprise disk because i know for sure for large disk quantity i wont have more than 10% fail rate in 5 years so no warranty is better financially .

warranty does not increase disk reliability , the make of the disk and how much the disk was used is the important part in terms of reliability and for enterprise reliability is the important factor other factors are just financial calculations
 

Samir

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I agree with Propaganda. These drives are slightly better than regular red but the value isnt there at $179 considering they only have 30 days warranty. Also if you really need the reliability of enterprise hdd for your production environment you won't be buying them used with no warranty that makes no sense
I think that "warranty" is being associated with "reliability"--it's not the same thing. If you want to associate "warranty" with "product guarantee" then that's true, but if all you are losing when you have a failed drive is just the drive, you're not using the drive. :D

In the end it's all about failure rates. Failures cost time/money/effort. Warranties help soften the blow, but preventing failures is actually a better practice even though inevitably all drives will fail.
 

T_Minus

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If you guys want to keep debating and discussing drives please do so in that forum, and not this for sale thread.
 
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mmo

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I think the discussion of sas vs sata is off the original for sale/deals topic.
 

Samir

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I think the discussion of sas vs sata is off the original for sale/deals topic.
In itself, I too would have considered it to be ot, but in the context of that discussion being for analyzing if the deal was a deal or not, I found it totally relevant.
 

lhibou

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Jun 12, 2019
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Did this deal stop working? Dang. Guess I delayed too long on grabbing some of those SSDs.