Move Over M.2: 16TB M.3 SSDs for the 1PB per U Data Center

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Jaket

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Very interesting, however good note you have in there about the current shortage, I spoke with HGST a while back and they asked if we noticed the shortage as well. Hopefully that gets fixed soon and SSD's come down even more! :D
 

gigatexal

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It shouldn't take more than 100 years for the ssd to pay themselves off with power savings over the spinny disks. Maybe I should just switch to tape.
Seriously? The SSDs run circles around spindles. If performance is something you're willing to pay for these density targeting gunsticks are just the thing.

Now if they could get 4800X perf onto them...Drool!
 

Evan

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Jan 6, 2016
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250k for 1PB is a good price, if it came with some support from a big vendor like IBM, EMC, Netapp etc at that price you would see them sell like hot cakes.
 

kkisme

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AdrianB

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Anyone want to learn or try out our PCIe M.3 adapter? Here is Amazon's purchase link: https://www.amazon.com/Funtin-Adapter-NGSFF-Interface-Samsung/dp/B07BS7DW3K
View attachment 9392

If this adapter would have allowed hot plug of the SSD, then I would have bought it immediately.

As it is, I do not see why anyone would want such an adapter, instead of buying a PCIe card with multiple M.2 sockets, which would allow the same capacity and higher speed, while allowing the use of M.2 SSDs, which are available everywhere and from all vendors.

I am using a PCIe card with 4 M.2 sockets as an 8 TB SSD (with 4 Samsung 960 Pro), but I would replace it immediately with a hot plug adapter if one were available and I would put such adapters in all my servers (I used some U.2 hot plug adapters, together with M.2 to U.2 adapters, but I abandoned that path because I believe that U.2 is hopelessly obsolete compared to the Samsung and Intel solutions).

IIRC, Samsung demonstrated such a PCIe adapter as I want, but it is not available commercially.
 

T_Minus

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If this adapter would have allowed hot plug of the SSD, then I would have bought it immediately.

As it is, I do not see why anyone would want such an adapter, instead of buying a PCIe card with multiple M.2 sockets, which would allow the same capacity and higher speed, while allowing the use of M.2 SSDs, which are available everywhere and from all vendors.

I am using a PCIe card with 4 M.2 sockets as an 8 TB SSD (with 4 Samsung 960 Pro), but I would replace it immediately with a hot plug adapter if one were available and I would put such adapters in all my servers (I used some U.2 hot plug adapters, together with M.2 to U.2 adapters, but I abandoned that path because I believe that U.2 is hopelessly obsolete compared to the Samsung and Intel solutions).

IIRC, Samsung demonstrated such a PCIe adapter as I want, but it is not available commercially.
m.3
 

AdrianB

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It appears that I have not explained clear enough, as your reply looks like you are believing that I am not aware about what I am talking.

The Samsung NF1 form factor, formerly known as M.3, has one single (very important) advantage over M.2, when used in a PCIe adapter card: it allows hot plugging.

The other advantage of NF1, of enabling higher densities, can be realized only in special enclosures. In a PCIe adapter card you could have a higher density than with M.2 only if the adapter card had 2 NF1 sockets. With M.2 you already have 8 TB per PCIe card and Samsung could easily introduce 4 TB M.2 SSDs, to allow a 16 TB PCIe card, but Samsung does not introduce such a capacity because they believe that there is no market for such expensive SSDs in a consumer form factor.

So I say again, this PCIe card adapter is useless because it does not provide any of the advantages of the NF1 form factor. The most important drawback is that it does not allow hot plugging.

The fact that it has a single socket prevents it to have a higher capacity than the existing M.2 adapter cards, but this is far less important, because few will want to spend so much money on a 16 TB or larger SSD. Those who really will spend so much money will probably buy a dedicated rack-mounted storage server, so they would not need such adapter cards.

I do not understand why would someone introduce a product which does not allow the buyer to use precisely the only advantage that justifies the existence of the new form factor.
 

T_Minus

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That's your opinion on the device, and usefulness I don't share it.

I'm glad they make it because at some point people here, including myself may get their hands on them like we do other parts on ebay for a fraction of what they cost new, and this would allow us to put them in boards without the correct slot, or add more to empty PCIE slots.
 
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AdrianB

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That's your opinion on the device, and usefulness I don't share it.

I'm glad they make it because at some point people here, including myself may get their hands on them like we do other parts on ebay for a fraction of what they cost new, and this would allow us to put them in boards without the correct slot, or add more to empty PCIE slots.

I agree that you are right.
If you had an opportunity to buy such an SSD at a reduced price, then such an adapter would be very useful, unlike in the case when you had to pay full price, when it would not be competitive with M.2 adapters.


Nonetheless, I do not believe that such a scenario is very likely. Unlike most computer parts, SSDs suffer significant wear and a used SSD, especially of the kind normally used in data centers, will probably have a quite short life remaining.

It will have to be really cheap, to compensate for the short time during which you will be able to use it.
 

T_Minus

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I agree that you are right.
If you had an opportunity to buy such an SSD at a reduced price, then such an adapter would be very useful, unlike in the case when you had to pay full price, when it would not be competitive with M.2 adapters.


Nonetheless, I do not believe that such a scenario is very likely. Unlike most computer parts, SSDs suffer significant wear and a used SSD, especially of the kind normally used in data centers, will probably have a quite short life remaining.

It will have to be really cheap, to compensate for the short time during which you will be able to use it.
:eek: Sorry, but you're wrong. The scenario is not only likely it's factually true, and most drives have a LOT of life remaining.

I personally have used 100s of enterprise/datacenter SSD drives that were used/2nd-hand market and out of those only 3 arrived with high % wear, and were quickly returned for a refund. Many many members on STH also are in the same situation as myself, some using many more drives too.

I have almost a dozen funtin adapters in-use for 2.5" NVME adapters as well, and thus I also know the brand referenced are functional, and practical to use as well.
 

jerrytsao

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Sep 11, 2016
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I agree that you are right.
If you had an opportunity to buy such an SSD at a reduced price, then such an adapter would be very useful, unlike in the case when you had to pay full price, when it would not be competitive with M.2 adapters.


Nonetheless, I do not believe that such a scenario is very likely. Unlike most computer parts, SSDs suffer significant wear and a used SSD, especially of the kind normally used in data centers, will probably have a quite short life remaining.

It will have to be really cheap, to compensate for the short time during which you will be able to use it.
Er... actually many of them are just spare parts with few bytes written, Non-OEM parts or OEM parts you name it, and sniping those with fraction of original MSRP is the most amazing thing you can do on eBay.
 

AdrianB

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Er... actually many of them are just spare parts with few bytes written, Non-OEM parts or OEM parts you name it, and sniping those with fraction of original MSRP is the most amazing thing you can do on eBay.
I grew up in one of the Eastern Europe countries, where the Russian invaders installed communist governments.

During those times, it was forbidden for individuals to buy or sell most useful things.

So there was an underground market for all the things that you could not buy from a legit shop.

Besides things that were smuggled over the borders, one of the most important sources for the merchandise were the state-owned companies. In those companies, periodically someone made lists with various spare parts or devices that should be scrapped, supposedly because they were defective or obsolete.

The parts or devices that had to be scrapped were supposed to be destroyed, but usually they were salvaged and sold on the black market. Of course most of them had no defects and were singled out for scrapping so that whoever put them on the list would take a share from the profit made by selling them.


There are some times good reasons to dispose of SSDs which are not worn out. For example some times ago I decided to use only NVME SSDs in all computers, because that would simplify some custom software that I use, and at that time I had some large SATA SSDs that were still good for many years of use. I gave all of them to various friends or acquaintances.


Something like that can explain some of the good SSDs that can be found on eBay, but I suspect that many of them might have an origin like the devices from the scrapping lists of my childhood.

Nonetheless, if I had the occasion to buy such a cheap good SSD, obviously I would buy it, no questions asked :)
 
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T_Minus

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Well that's the most absurd thing I've heard anyone propose as why SSD end up on the 2nd-hand market.
 
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AdrianB

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Well that's the most absurd thing I've heard anyone propose as why SSD end up on the 2nd-hand market.

I have no idea why one would want to sell little used SSDs for a much reduced price, except in rare cases when one would standardize on some new form factor or interface for some reason, so the SSDs that do not match would become disposable, or maybe when a company would become bankrupt or some of its divisions would be closed.

Therefore, I can only guess.

So I am curious to hear which is your explanation, why can many still good SSDs be found on sale on eBay at low prices (as you say that this is a frequent occurrence) ?
 

T_Minus

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I have no idea why one would want to sell little used SSDs for a much reduced price, except in rare cases when one would standardize on some new form factor or interface for some reason, so the SSDs that do not match would become disposable, or maybe when a company would become bankrupt or some of its divisions would be closed.

Therefore, I can only guess.

So I am curious to hear which is your explanation, why can many still good SSDs be found on sale on eBay at low prices (as you say that this is a frequent occurrence) ?

It's not "my explanation" it's the way of enterprise asset management and the general lifecycle of IT gear, leases, warranties, etc... these large companies rarely if ever sell their gear themselves too, there's an entire industry around this equipment.