Back end storage for ESXi Datastores and RDMs?

Which storage array do you think is a good fit?

  • EMC XtremIO

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • EMC VNX

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • EMC Isilon

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4
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macrules34

Active Member
Mar 18, 2016
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I'm looking for a storage solution for my VMware ESXi environment hosting multiple web sites:

- Cisco UCS 5108 Chassis
- 5x Cisco B200 M3 blades:
Dual E5-2690 Quad Core
4x 32GB Ram, 1x 16GB RAM
Each has 2x 16GB memory cards that hold the OS
- 2x Cisco 6248UP Fabric Inter Connects
- 2x Cisco Nexus 5020 (10GB with 14x 1GB-8GB FC expansion installed in each switch)

See the poll for the arrays I'm considering.
 

cesmith9999

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2013
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It really depends on your workload and design. those 3 are over kill for most things.

Chris
 

macrules34

Active Member
Mar 18, 2016
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The array will be used to house Virtual Machines and use RDMs on the VMs for storage. Theses virtual machines will be used as mostly web servers, some DNS servers and other odds and ends.

EMC XtremIO (all Flash)- 8GB FC & 10GB iSCSi -Block only
EMC VNX (mix of flash and spinners)- 8GB FC & 10GB iSCSi & 10GB NFS etc.: Block & File storage
EMC Isilon (mix of flash and spinners) - 10GB NAS ect.: File only
 
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modder man

Active Member
Jan 19, 2015
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Why are you using RDM's? RDM's are definitely best avoided unless you have a specific reason to use them.
 

macrules34

Active Member
Mar 18, 2016
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@modder man I'm using RDMs because I need separate disks on some of the VMs. Not all VMs will be using RDMs, just the ones that require a large disk for storage of pictures and other media.
 

hhp

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Aug 3, 2016
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Do you know, or have you estimated the IOP's required for your workload? I would start there, I have a lot of web servers on blades and the requirements are pretty low for mine but each app is different. What are your growth requirements over the next year, 3 years etc., in other words what are your expected expansion requirements over time? What is your backup plan, i.e, are there limited time windows for backup or other use cases that would require a more robust system beyond normal workload requiring higher sustained I/O? How much extra capacity do you expect to need over the first year and how much of a safety buffer do you want to build in? Are there any budget limitations? If you are looking at Dell/EMC I am guessing there are not, if your requirements and expansion needs are low enough you could probably go with a cheaper solution. Its hard to make suggestions without knowing the targets you have to hit and what the platform will have to service over its lifetime.

For example, I have one 3 blade cluster running 72 CentOS VM's (mostly web servers, 3 name servers, 3 time servers, 3 radius servers, 3 mysql servers), average sustained IOP's is 900 read/650 write with short spikes to ~6500 IOP's. Any of those solutions listed would most likely be overkill for this. I have another cluster running 59 vm's, mostly web based monitoring services and 3 syslog servers, any one of the blades in that cluster would destroy the SAN the web cluster uses ( same exact blades 2670v2/128gb). In generic terms they are both running on the the same hardware, OS's, web servers etc. but the workloads and I/O requirements are totally different.

I don't know if any of the above helps but, your question/poll is too vague to provide any useful suggestions, you have to determine your requirements as accurately as possible first. These EMC solutions _seem_ like overkill to me, without knowing what you need any response to this poll may just empty your bank account unnecessarily. My experience with Dell/EMC ends at the PS series so I cant provide any useful insight there, it seems like you may be able to save on spend here with additional detail and actual or estimated performance requirements.

Are you using raw device mapping for a specific performance requirement, software compatibility, vendor requirement or some other reason? If the content on the RDM's is the same across VM's (I am assuming pics, files etc for web apps) have you considered using a shared LUN mount on each of the content store consumers. Actually, I am assuming again, mostly static reads to the web content stores? I used to do this at a previous job where they sold music, video etc., saved a lot of storage space and cost on the solution.
 

macrules34

Active Member
Mar 18, 2016
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Do you know, or have you estimated the IOP's required for your workload? No.
What are your growth requirements over the next year, 3 years etc., in other words what are your expected expansion requirements over time? Not sure just starting out.
What is your backup plan, i.e, are there limited time windows for backup or other use cases that would require a more robust system beyond normal workload requiring higher sustained I/O? The back-up plan is to run nightly snapshots of the VMs or more frequent if needed.
Are you using raw device mapping for a specific performance requirement, software compatibility, vendor requirement or some other reason? I was going to use raw device mapping , but has changed as the limitations are much higher than I thought.
Actually, I am assuming again, mostly static reads to the web content stores? I'm not really sure, I can give an example of a few of the websites if that would help. Site #1 will be mostly an informational site, explaining the business and have a link to an ebay sellers page. Site #2 is a site to host and share photos for a photography client, the client will be uploading pics to the site and people will be able to download the pictures for their own use. Site #3 is more of a forum site and will also have a picture gallery as well.

The reason that I am leaning towards an EMC solution is that I am familiar with the products and have worked with them in the past. I'm not buying brand new, I am buying them second hand.


 

hhp

New Member
Aug 3, 2016
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I would be very wary of using snapshots for backups and strongly recommend you find an alternative approach, that is the opposite of best practices. When you take a snapshot, the hypervisor has to maintain the state and changes in both the running store and snap (i.e your performance will decrease). If you start piling up snapshots on a VM, you will eventually choke out the available I/O and encounter latency, timeouts etc. on hyper visor house keeping. I only use them as a quick roll back safety net for configuration changes, upgrades etc. - as soon as the evolution is over they are deleted or reverted, depending on task success or failure.

When you say site 1, 2, 3 - are you referring to a single VM/apache per site, or multiple host web servers load balanced per site?

It sounds like you have fairly low I/O requirements unless they are very very busy sites/forums. You could probably get by with a Synology, QNAP etc. rack based solution using SSDs for read/write cache on the cheap end, or nearly any of the used PS series equalogics, HP MSA's etc.
 

hhp

New Member
Aug 3, 2016
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One more thing to keep in mind if you are using higher end used gear, it will be difficult to impossible to get firmware, software etc. updates, thats the main reason i wouldn't use them in production, if you are starting a business on this platform you need to think about liability as well. What happens if say, the systems have been up for a year and that photography company has revenue tied to those stored pictures. Your SAN crashes due to a firmware issue, you cant get updates to correct firmware or get it back online, your backups were snapshots on that toasted node. People like to sue when money is on the line, just be careful and have contracts that indemnify your self for failures or CYA somehow.
 

modder man

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Jan 19, 2015
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I am with HHP, you would be much better buying something new but less capable if it is going into production. For an environment the size you are proposing the EMC stuff is more headache than it is worth.
 

modder man

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Jan 19, 2015
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If you don't mind me asking. Why?
Other people are paying you and trusting you to protect your data. How confident are you in your own understanding of the nitty and gritty of freenas? You don’t have any real support to turn into...losing data is the one mistake you can’t make in this industry.