Another Intel Fake?

Notice: Page may contain affiliate links for which we may earn a small commission through services like Amazon Affiliates or Skimlinks.

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
I ran into this forum via a search that brought me to the excellent comparison thread on the i350-t4.

Well, I ran into a deal that may be too good to be true, and I wanted to get some feedback. The card I've been needing is about 6 Intel PWLA8492MT. Now, these cards are older and are PCI-X, but also work fine in a PCI slot (yes, I know about the bandwidth situation when doing that.). Typical pulls go for about the same that I've paid for what are supposed to be new-in-box Intel cards.

Mine have arrived from California in shrink wrapped Intel boxes, have the Intel sticker on the back of the card, an Intel installation book, Intel branded install CD, but are not PCI-X. (I really don't know how as a fake you just chop off the 64-bit part of the design.)

So the question is, did Intel ever make a PCI-only version of the PWLA8492MT without changing the part number? Seems unlikely to me, but I wanted to hear your thoughts.
 

vl1969

Active Member
Feb 5, 2014
634
76
28
I would think that what you got is not PWLA8492MT but a close relative, if it is a real Intel card.
may I ask why do you actually NEED the PWLA8492MT and can not use something else instead if you can use PCI ? do you actually need PCI-X card and got the PCI?

just curious.
 

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
It would only be a close relative if Intel made a PCI-only version of a dual port card. The question is did they? I know it wouldn't make sense since a single gigabit transfer at full speeds can eat all of the original PCI spec's bandwidth. And even if Intel did, they would have probably used a different part number, don't you think?

I do have PCI-X slots as well as PCI as these are for various legacy systems. For the price of the PWLA8490MT (single port version), it's easy to get the dual port instead even if the second port isn't used. The MT is a server card and that's what I want. I couldn't find any other PCI server card models by Intel. I know there's some by Broadcom, but I don't know if they're server cards and if they stack up to the MT. The MT definitely seems to be a staple workhorse in the enterprise arena. Sounds like a good card to have--if it's a real one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T_Minus

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
I spoke with Intel earlier today, and for the record the PWLA8492MT only came in a PCI-X physical format, and while not 100% certain, Intel did not find any documents indicating that an OEM card was made for someone else in a PCI-only size.

Furthermore, they checked the OUI on the MAC address of the card vs the box (I wouldn't have thought they would have been differnt) and found the box was for an HP manufactured card (even though it is an Intel box) while the card had an Intel manufacturer designation. These and other small red flags gave Intel the strong impression that these were not genuine products.

I've already got them returned and on the way back to the seller for a refund.
 

bds1904

Active Member
Aug 30, 2013
271
76
28
Not really sure how changing expansion card standards will substantially reduce power consumption, but okay. :rolleyes:
You were referring to someone else paying for an architecture upgrade.

I was referring to the fact that any system with PCI-X is most likely pulling 275W+ from the wall at idle. Modern systems will pull as little as 50W-75W at idle and have the same performance. That's about $20/mo savings from 1 system if it is on 24/7. Assuming $0.15/KwH that is.
 

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
You were referring to someone else paying for an architecture upgrade.

I was referring to the fact that any system with PCI-X is most likely pulling 275W+ from the wall at idle. Modern systems will pull as little as 50W-75W at idle and have the same performance. That's about $20/mo savings from 1 system if it is on 24/7. Assuming $0.15/KwH that is.
In a thread started about a potentially fake NIC, your tangent was completely unnecessary. That was not the discussion at hand, nor did it need to be.
 

bds1904

Active Member
Aug 30, 2013
271
76
28
In a thread started about a potentially fake NIC, your tangent was completely unnecessary. That was not the discussion at hand, nor did it need to be.
Don't "your tangent was completely unessary, it wasn't the discussion at hand" me. There is no need to be rude. You very clearly stated that "if someone else is paying for it" you would "upgrade from pci-x or PCI".

I simply pointed out that if it's a machine that runs 24/7 there potentially was a large savings that could be achieved by an architecture upgrade.

If you can't be open for discussion and opinions then don't use a forum.
 

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
Don't "your tangent was completely unessary, it wasn't the discussion at hand" me. There is no need to be rude. You very clearly stated that "if someone else is paying for it" you would "upgrade from pci-x or PCI".

I simply pointed out that if it's a machine that runs 24/7 there potentially was a large savings that could be achieved by an architecture upgrade.

If you can't be open for discussion and opinions then don't use a forum.
Look, I didn't start this thread to discuss the merits of moving from PCI-X/PCI to any other architecture for the purpose of power saving. Your opinion on the power savings is good to know and noted, but that's about it in relation to the topic of this thread.

I know exactly how forums work because I own one. And while tangents can be useful when running parallel to the thread topic (which ideally get split into their own thread by a moderator/admin), there are times when they just derail the original topic. You seem to know this as well.

I was hoping to get an answer from the vast amount of experience here with enterprise equipment as well as dealing with fakes before Intel gave me an answer. Now I'm just having second thoughts about posting a topic asking for any experience in differences in the PWLA8492MT and their OEM brethren the HP NC7170 and Dell J1679. That's what I'm leaning towards purchasing now as there doesn't seem to be as big a market for fakes. If you want to chime in on that subject, that would be most helpful.
 

eabeukes

New Member
Jul 28, 2017
4
4
3
39
I was hoping to get an answer from the vast amount of experience here with enterprise equipment as well as dealing with fakes before Intel gave me an answer. Now I'm just having second thoughts about posting a topic asking for any experience in differences in the PWLA8492MT and their OEM brethren the HP NC7170 and Dell J1679. That's what I'm leaning towards purchasing now as there doesn't seem to be as big a market for fakes. If you want to chime in on that subject, that would be most helpful.
Samir,

I ran a number of the HP NC7170 cards as well as its quad-port NC340T (PWLA8494GT) sibling. While I can't comment on the Dell cards, the HP ones were rock-colid for the 4 years I ran them (12 cards total). 4 or the cards were also later run for 6 months in my garage at 40C temperatures and were still 100%.
My experience with the HP cards has been so good I actually bought the NC364T quad port versions when I upgraded to PCI-E servers. They have an OEM sticker on them, but otherwise show up as standard Intel cards under Linux, FreeBSD and VMware. If you are running Windows I would suggest actually using the HP drivers and software as they tend to be slightly more reliable (but with more features) than the Intel ones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Samir

RTM

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2014
956
359
63
I was going to say, that what you got was probably some obscure card made by some reputable vendor (Intel/Dell/HP/Silicom/Fujitsu/etc), remarked by a reseller that was not so much. But I decided to do some "due diligence", because surely no Chinese NIC manufacturer (branded like Winyao or otherwise) would bother making old PCI(-X) based NICs?

I was wrong.

Apparently Winyao makes PCI NICs dual port NICs with a Intel controller: link to dealextreme

If Winyao makes those cards, it is not unlikely that resellers or other NIC manufacturers with no scruples, will try to rebrand them as real Intel cards in the hope that they sell better than non-Intel branded cards.

I guess you should go talk to the guy who sold you these NICs, because as your communication with Intel suggested, they are probably not genuine Intel manufactured.

Also you will probably want to stay away from Amazon third-party resellers (if that is very you bought them from), from what I hear you have a pretty good chance (eBay-level) of snagging a counterfeit product. I think if you buy used cards, there is a pretty good chance that you will actually get the "real deal", because no-one uses PCI-X cards anymore.

I suppose you could also have considered using the cards, if you weren't planning on using the PCI-X part anyway the NICs may not be very different in performance and usability. I suppose there is a good chance that the controller is the same and the different in quality between a 10 year old "real" 1000 pro MT 2port card vs a new "counterfeit". The real issue here is that while something like a Winyao PCI-X card might actually be decent, there is no way to tell if it not Winyao but some other random chinese manufacturer (who has already proven to have no scruples, by branding their card as Intel).

Also... did you get a chance to take a picture of the card? It would be interesting to have something for reference :)
I was hoping to get an answer from the vast amount of experience here with enterprise equipment as well as dealing with fakes before Intel gave me an answer. Now I'm just having second thoughts about posting a topic asking for any experience in differences in the PWLA8492MT and their OEM brethren the HP NC7170 and Dell J1679. That's what I'm leaning towards purchasing now as there doesn't seem to be as big a market for fakes. If you want to chime in on that subject, that would be most helpful.
This is a little overly dramatic... it shouldn't come as a surprise that people would suggest getting PCI-e NICs, PCI-X NICs are more than a little antiquated. Also... I don't think anyone actually purchase PCI(-X) NICs anymore, besides you ;) , which is probably the reason why you got very few actual replies - people tend to only reply to this type of posts if they know something about the question.

With that in mind, rather than just dismissing the suggestion, perhaps you could explain why upgrading to something with more PCI-E slots would not be feasible for you. It doesn't have to be extremely detailed, but a little info may be enough to satisfy peoples curiosity. As you probably know, people often make decisions for the wrong reasons, and buying "old" PCI(-X) NICs has all the hallmarks of being just that. An example of what the results may be of doing this, is a suggestion to do things smarter than what you are already doing, which is something that shouldn't be dismissed :)
 

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
Samir,

I ran a number of the HP NC7170 cards as well as its quad-port NC340T (PWLA8494GT) sibling. While I can't comment on the Dell cards, the HP ones were rock-colid for the 4 years I ran them (12 cards total). 4 or the cards were also later run for 6 months in my garage at 40C temperatures and were still 100%.
My experience with the HP cards has been so good I actually bought the NC364T quad port versions when I upgraded to PCI-E servers. They have an OEM sticker on them, but otherwise show up as standard Intel cards under Linux, FreeBSD and VMware. If you are running Windows I would suggest actually using the HP drivers and software as they tend to be slightly more reliable (but with more features) than the Intel ones.
Lovely feedback! Thank you!
 

Samir

Post Liker and Deal Hunter Extraordinaire!
Jul 21, 2017
3,257
1,447
113
49
HSV and SFO
I was going to say, that what you got was probably some obscure card made by some reputable vendor (Intel/Dell/HP/Silicom/Fujitsu/etc), remarked by a reseller that was not so much. But I decided to do some "due diligence", because surely no Chinese NIC manufacturer (branded like Winyao or otherwise) would bother making old PCI(-X) based NICs?

I was wrong.

Apparently Winyao makes PCI NICs dual port NICs with a Intel controller: link to dealextreme

If Winyao makes those cards, it is not unlikely that resellers or other NIC manufacturers with no scruples, will try to rebrand them as real Intel cards in the hope that they sell better than non-Intel branded cards.

I guess you should go talk to the guy who sold you these NICs, because as your communication with Intel suggested, they are probably not genuine Intel manufactured.

Also you will probably want to stay away from Amazon third-party resellers (if that is very you bought them from), from what I hear you have a pretty good chance (eBay-level) of snagging a counterfeit product. I think if you buy used cards, there is a pretty good chance that you will actually get the "real deal", because no-one uses PCI-X cards anymore.

I suppose you could also have considered using the cards, if you weren't planning on using the PCI-X part anyway the NICs may not be very different in performance and usability. I suppose there is a good chance that the controller is the same and the different in quality between a 10 year old "real" 1000 pro MT 2port card vs a new "counterfeit". The real issue here is that while something like a Winyao PCI-X card might actually be decent, there is no way to tell if it not Winyao but some other random chinese manufacturer (who has already proven to have no scruples, by branding their card as Intel).

Also... did you get a chance to take a picture of the card? It would be interesting to have something for reference :)

This is a little overly dramatic... it shouldn't come as a surprise that people would suggest getting PCI-e NICs, PCI-X NICs are more than a little antiquated. Also... I don't think anyone actually purchase PCI(-X) NICs anymore, besides you ;) , which is probably the reason why you got very few actual replies - people tend to only reply to this type of posts if they know something about the question.

With that in mind, rather than just dismissing the suggestion, perhaps you could explain why upgrading to something with more PCI-E slots would not be feasible for you. It doesn't have to be extremely detailed, but a little info may be enough to satisfy peoples curiosity. As you probably know, people often make decisions for the wrong reasons, and buying "old" PCI(-X) NICs has all the hallmarks of being just that. An example of what the results may be of doing this, is a suggestion to do things smarter than what you are already doing, which is something that shouldn't be dismissed :)
Thank you for taking the time to look into the Winyao cards. They did look identical to the cards I received, so I think your analysis is pretty spot on with 'no scruples' in putting such a card in an Intel box and calling it genuine.

I've considered the fact that aged cards may have their own drawbacks, but there's certain things that have been built to last well beyond their usefulness, and it seems enterprise NICs were one of these things. What I've seen most often in the research on counterfeit cards is that they will fail shortly after being put into production (1 year seemed to be the most common timeframe), and/or they would fail on a certain function of one of the more specialized functions such as remote formatting of an iscsi lun. I guess failures like this could be attributed to build quality or quality assurance, but I didn't want to deal with issues like these.

I didn't take a picture of the card (although I considered it). However, I did write down all the numbers and markings on the box when I sent those to Intel. It was amazing what Intel was able to determine from these numbers since they knew what they should be. What was surprising was that Intel never asked for who sold them in an effort to take legal action.

I definitely appreciate the interest in what I'm trying to do here as that indicates a genuine interest to help. But the initial replies did feel a lot like what I see on other forums--posters bashing the OP's idea rather than trying to help with it. As far as the reason for PCI-X, see the following posted earlier in the thread:
I do have PCI-X slots as well as PCI as these are for various legacy systems. For the price of the PWLA8490MT (single port version), it's easy to get the dual port instead even if the second port isn't used. The MT is a server card and that's what I want. I couldn't find any other PCI server card models by Intel. I know there's some by Broadcom, but I don't know if they're server cards and if they stack up to the MT. The MT definitely seems to be a staple workhorse in the enterprise arena. Sounds like a good card to have--if it's a real one.
Prior to discovering the Intel server cards, I was thinking to just put in more Intel desktop GT cards. But then when looking at the cost of 6 of those cards vs what I can find in the secondhand market, there's a lot to gain in savings--especially when the secondhand server cards end up being better to boot.