need workstation suggestions & not sure where to post . . .

[Patrick]

Despite their availability, photo editing is still done on the "lousy " 3770K system. Why? Because the D800 files are not big enough to "justify" a system change

I still use the i7-3930K system for my main workstation (slight overclock). The main reason for this is because I end up needing more than 32GB of RAM due to the various VMs I set up to test stuff for the site + Photoshop. It is also driving over 11MP of monitor output. I do like the i7-3770K but I ended up having a need for something else in my environment.

 

[SemiLiterate]

This is my current photography editing system:

• Lian Li PC-V600 case
• Corsair SP120 quiet edition 120mm case fans (3x), replaced Lian Li case fans
• Corsair AX750 power supply
• Asus Maximus V Gene z77 motherboard
• Intel Core i7-3770K processor
• Xigmatek Loki SD963 heatsink
• Scythe Kama FLEX PWM 92mm case fans (2x push-pull), replaced single Xigmatek fan
• G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB (4x8GB) DDR3 2400 SDRAM
• Gigabyte GV-R795WF3-3GD Radeon HD 7950 video board
• Intel 520 series 240GB SATA III MLC SSD (boot, applications & scratch space)
• Western Digital 3TB Red HDD (2x3TB, RAID-1) working & temporary storage space
• Mushkin Atlas series 60GB mSATA MLC SSD (used to cache the 2x3TB RAID-1 array)
• Asus 24x DVD burner
• Windows 7 x64 Ultimate operating system
• Leopold/Cherry MX "brown" keyboard
• Logitech G400 mouse
• Wacom Intuos5 touch pen tablet (medium)
• Dell U3011 monitor
• Eye One Display Pro Xrite/GretagMacbeth color calibration system

NAS units: Synology DS1812, RAID6, 8x2TB WD black RE2 HDDs - two identical units, one in my home office, the other in a nearby building, mirroring its mate. All connections are currently through a Netgear GS108T 8-port switch.

Changes to system:

• added Intel 520 series 480GB SSD for Users folders and active workspace
• demoted the cached RAID-1 array to local storage, no longer used for active workspace
• installed a pair of Dell U2014 monitors
• replaced 16x2TB HDDs with HGST Ultrastar 7K4000 HDDs

Original plan: Build a new dual Xeon workstation with an SSD for the operating system, applications & scratch space, a second large SSD for active work space and an internal 8x2TB RAID-6 array for temporary project storage using 8 of the drives from my two NAS boxes PLUS replace the drives in both boxes with new 4TB HDDs. New workstation would also have dual HD 7950 video boards and drive a pair of Dell U3014 monitors.

1st plan modification (based on suggestions given here): Build a true file server and demote both NAS boxes to backup tasks.
2nd plan modification (based on suggestions given here): Build a new x79/lga2011 workstation with dual video and either 10gig/E or Infiniband connection to file server.

I'm still open to suggestions; however, this project is getting more expensive by the post. I've some flexibility in my budget, but it is not unlimited. Not counting the 16 new 4TB drives or the 2 U3014 monitors, I was hoping to keep it well under $5K. The way things are going this project could easily cost twice that.

 

[PigLover]

I think most of your cost issue is related to your commitment to dual video cards. It's not at all clear that is reall necessary. As Andreas points out you can calibrate two monitors on one video card. Not clear what has lead you to believe you can't. Even if you can't calibrate both it's not clear that you need to.

If you give up this part of the plan then you don't really need to replace the MB/CPU and you probably save $1,000 or more for similar performance. Your primary application - Photoshop and related tools - are not highly threaded and socket 2011 CPU won't make much difference. Fix the disk throughput issues and you'll be a very happy camper.

 

[SemiLiterate]

The first several 10gig/E cards I found were PCIe/8 cards (and also $350 to $650 each).

Not sure why you need a x8 PCI slot for a 10Gig/E card. Unless you need the last fraction of 10gig performance, a x1 slot PCIe 3.0 is sufficient. Put it in another way, a x4 PCI 2.0 slots is ok as well.

The suggestion was to eliminate all HDD storage from the workstation and use a true file server with either 10gig/E or Infiniband connection to the workstation. That translates into a lot of traffic between the two.

BTW, 10G/E for the D800 is a kind of overkill. The RAW files are only 40-50 MB.

The reason for going to LGA2011 was the problem of getting slots and PCIe lanes juggled for a pair of 2-slot video boards and a PCIe/8 10gig/E network card.

As said earlier, if you want to go the LGA2011 route, just do it. Will you experience a perf difference with your GPU's to a i7-3770K system? I don't know, but I couldn't.

Instructions with the Eye One Display Pro explicitly state that proper calibration requires independently addressable LUTs (which the Dells do not have -- gotta spend another $1200+ per monitor to get that from NEC or Eizo) or independent video board & monitor pairs. I even called & asked. Maybe I just didn't know the proper question(s) to ask. I am, after all, semi-literate.

On calibration. Which tool are you using? A colorimeter or spectrophotometer? Win7 and Win8 can assign independent color profiles to each monitor, not sure why you need 2 graphic cards in your particular case. Any special dependency?

Didn't think so.

For photo editing SLI and CF is not necessary as you don't need AFR (alternate frame rendering)

Doubted that mattered for my application, either. Dual cards -- as long as they are the same make & model -- don't seem to be much of a problem. When there are differences, its nightmare time.

On NVidia/ATI: Each camp has their use cases where the products shine and usually a very vocal community of supporters and "non-supporters". / On the compute side, NVidia started early with CUDA, and has the better OpenGL performance, ATI has the better OpenCL implementation. (very generic statement) I'd go for a midrange card from either manufacturer and wouldn't care too much about details and game performance. A single card is preferred, unless there is a real need for a second (driver stability, heat in the case, energy consumption are some of the negatives)

 

[SemiLiterate]

Edited to repair accidental moderator damage . . .

Xrite -- the marketer of the Eye One Display Pro colorimeter and GretagMacbeth calibration software -- was my source. They said that the Dell monitors do not have individually addressable LUTs and therefore require individual video boards. NEC and Eizo apparently are more accommodating for significantly larger amounts of money -- $1200+ more per monitor. Maybe I didn't ask the right question(s), making me half-baked in addition to being semi-literate.

I think most of your cost issue is related to your commitment to dual video cards. It's not at all clear that is reall necessary. As Andreas points out you can calibrate two monitors on one video card. Not clear what has lead you to believe you can't. Even if you can't calibrate both it's not clear that you need to.

So, you're saying to keep my original workstation and simply add another large SSD as workspace, keep the 2x3TB RAID-1 array, add (or don't add) the second video card (which it will accommodate), the two new U3014 monitors, and upgrade the two NAS boxes and call it quits. That's certainly the least expensive solution.

If you give up this part of the plan then you don't really need to replace the MB/CPU and you probably save $1,000 or more for similar performance. Your primary application - Photoshop and related tools - are not highly threaded and socket 2011 CPU won't make much difference. Fix the disk throughput issues and you'll be a very happy camper.

 

[PigLover]

Oh crud...moderator powers error...edited semi-literates post instead of quoting it.

My sincere and very, very public apologies...unfortunately I don't have a way to put it back the way it was...

Again...apologies.

This is the part I meant to add

------------------------

I'm not saying anything about being half-baked, but you can always do this and see how it works out. Since you already have the existing workstation you can see how I works out for you. If this turns out to be good enough then you've save a bunch of $$$.

Then, if the calibration turns out to be unsatisfactory you can go ahead and buy the new MB, cp and video cards. You're total $outlay will be pretty much the same as if you went straight to this solution from the start.

 

[SemiLiterate]

Oh crud...moderator powers error...edited semi-literates post instead of quoting it.

No problem. Apology accepted. Besides, for the most part, it was your quote you deleted. LOL (My comment was about Xrite - the marketer of the calibration hardware & software - being the source of my information about not being able to properly calibrate the two Dell U3014 monitors using a single video board.)

And, yes, you are right. Regardless of the what I do with the proposed new workstation, I'll be upgrading storage for the two NAS boxes. Connecting the two new monitors to my existing workstation's HD 7950 (and, if necessary, adding a 2nd video board) is trivial. Finally, there is no question that adding another large SSD for workspace will increase speed of operation. However, my current system is already maxed out on RAM at 32GB -- nothing I can do about that without replacing the motherboard and CPU.

I've already ordered a boat-load of 4TB hard drives; they should be arriving shortly. I have no idea when Dell will begin regular shipments of the new U3014 monitors -- I'm "pre-ordered" and my credit card will be charged when they are shipped. I'll order another SSD tonight.

 

[SemiLiterate]

Now I am guessing the the bulk of my initial contribution was ignored. You sir, have a mid-range system and many others are also missing this. Now I am not going to dispute what others find best for their use or what you are happy with, what I am going to point out is that you are still missing loads of performance and some things said by others just don't ad up.

Actually, no, it wasn't ignored; it got morphed and sidetracked among suggestions that off-workstation file storage might be a better route, i.e., a file server based on a single or dual Xeon system, relegating both my NAS boxes to backup duties and simplifying (with 10gig/E???) my z77/LGA1155 or a new x79/LGA2011 pseudo-workstation with conversion to all-SSD storage, off-loading the bulk to the new file server (thus necessitating the 10gig/E or Infiniband). Phew!

eg.

• Full system details/specs?
• Full specs on each NAS you have?
• What you really want?

Point 1, now listed in a post above; point 2, ibid; and point 3 ... I don't know -- order among chaos. Speed and simplicity.

Going all-SSD makes sense -- speed, speed, speed; however, removing all HDD storage from my workstation does not. If I add a 2nd SSD as workspace and keep the 3TB RAID-1 array local for project storage, I really don't need 10gig/E between my workstation and the NAS boxes (they can't work that fast anyway) or a potential new file server (which could but really wouldn't need to). And a true file server makes sense. It's something that had been in the back of my mind as a project for "someday" for quite some time. It would resolve a number of storage issues and make it much easier to manage other aspects of my home/work network.

Based on the totality of these posts, I think my best path forward is double the space in the NAS boxes (already planned and in progress), make minor upgrades to my existing workstation (additional SSD for workspace, two new monitors and possibly the 2nd video card which will fit in my current system), and plan for both a true file server as a next step (this winter, maybe) and a less-limited non-mid-range workstation next spring.

 

[PigLover]

Sounds like you've settled on a plan. Have fun and good luck. Make sure you let us all know how it turned out. Include pictures (you do have a camera after all - a pretty darn nice one at that!).

 

[Andreas]

... the D800 is fantastic -- both tool and toy. What's most fun, though, is all the glass. I've been shooting Nikon since the '60's and have accumulated over a dozen bodies and nearly sixty lenses.

/Offtopic
Then you might be interested that the D800 fits VERY well to the AFS 800mm/5.6 VR
/End Offtopic

Have fun with your workstation project,
Andy

 

[SemiLiterate]

LOL -- Also off topic: At essentially $18K, the 800 f/5.6 is way out of my league unless an extremely well-heeled client willing to underwrite its cost comes along. Wouldn't want to have to carry it (and its tripod support system) either. My ancient 500mm f/4P (manual-focus) is heavy enough.

/Offtopic
Then you might be interested that the D800 fits VERY well to the AFS 800mm/5.6 VR
/End Offtopic

 

[SemiLiterate]

Final update to this thread:

I've purchased and installed a 480GB SSD to use for my primary workspace -- instead of the pair of 3TB WD reds in RAID-1 with a 60GB SSD cache (see configuration in an earlier post). I have the computer organized such that the operating system and all applications are on the 240GB "C:" SSD, the windows "Users" folder and several special projects folders are on the 480GB "D:" SSD. Both of these are running on Intel-connected Sata-3 ports. I then have the cached WD reds array running on Intel-connected Sata-2 ports. I've also completed the storage upgrade on both of my 8-drive NAS boxes. And, the pair of Dell U3014 monitors have arrived.

I'm keeping a variety of back-burner projects on the array with current work and priority projects in the special projects folders on the SSD. Working entirely on the new SSD is noticeably faster than working on the cached array.

As to my other problem, it turns out there was a very simple solution: Color-profile the first monitor; copy its new profile, changing its name to incorporate an L (for the left monitor); then, profile the second monitor; copy its new profile, changing its name to incorporate an R (for the right monitor -- L and R being my way of differentiating the two). Then just tell Windows which profile to use for which monitor. No second video card needed.

It seems that when faced with a single video card and left to its own naming conventions, the stupid Xrite software just keeps overwriting its previous profile as you attempt to profile second and/or third monitors.

I'm happy with the results for now. At some future point, I still plan to build both a true file server and a more powerful workstation; however, my immediate needs are well-covered.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions.

 

[Patrick]

What kind of 480GB SSD?

 

[SemiLiterate]

Intel's 520 series -- same as the 240GB I already had. I was considering the Samsung Pro; but I found the Intel at a very good price.