Viable small footprint NAS build?

[fonix232]

Hey all!

I'm looking to replace my current "NAS" (my old HP EliteBook 8530W, bit too much of a power hog for two HDDs) with a smaller, quieter, and more economical one.

I'd use a bunch of 2.5" disks, with a separate 5V power adapter for all of them (4 to 8 disks, so in total maybe 40W if we're talking about VERY power hungry ones), and am looking for an Intel-based board that has/can support at least 8GB RAM (DDR3 or up). These specs are the important:

- Size (preferably smaller than Mini-ITX, say, pico or nano ITX)
- Intel-based (Atom is perfectly fine, main use cases are mostly SMB, and downloading)
- Support for at least 8GB RAM

I'm not looking for something power-hungry 120W monster. The lower power, the better. Optimally it would eat 40W tops.

I do realize that at this form factor, I won't find any board that has the required amount of ports. Since I'm using HDDs, there's no need for SATA-III support (most hard drives can't reach the top speeds of SATA-II either), so the options are either two mPCIe slots with mPCIe-to-SATA 4-port cards, or a board that makes PCIe 4x-8x available in some way (extra board, etc.).

The MinnowBoard Max models do expose the PCIe interface through the high-speed expansion port, but I'm yet to find a lure (even a design) that makes use of PCIe in a way I could use (the HSE uses mPCIe, so there's little chance of getting a full PCIe x8 or even x4 port going).

 

[T_Minus]

SilverStone SST-DS380B SFF Mini-Tower Case DS380B B&H Photo

Will support 8x 3.5"

I'm not too sure what does only 2.5" without stepping up cost a lot. Maybe there's something new/out there I'm not aware of that will do 8x2.5" ? Most home/diy NAS are setup for 3.5"

 

[gigatexal]

Is there any way to fully soundproof these spindle based NASes? I have a low tolerance for the mechanical sound of spinning disks.

 

[SDLeary]

If you are really married to the idea of 2.5" drives, there is the Silverstone CS280. Its still mini-ITX.

I started to price out something using 2.5" drives, and quickly abandoned the idea. In order to provide any real redundancy or future expansion ability, I was going to spend a lot over 3.5".

NAS drives in 2.5" don't really have capacity, so I would have needed a 2 or 3 U rack case with lots of bays. You could mine drives, say 4TB Seagates out of external chassis, for a decent amount, though I'm not sure what the real world longevity is on these drives.

SDLeary

 

[fractal]

If you really want to stick with 2.5 drives, why not just use a NUC or equivalent and run them off a powered USB3 hub?

If that doesn't work for you, then scrounge eBay for an older SFF desktop. I have an older Dell Optiplex 790 with an i5 that idles under 20 watts that will take a few pcie cards. I see plenty of that vintage going for around 50 usd. It has a full size 5 1/4 DVD which you could replace with a 4 drive 2.5 for about 100 USD.

 

[TType85]

If you are really married to the idea of 2.5" drives, there is the Silverstone CS280. Its still mini-ITX.

I started to price out something using 2.5" drives, and quickly abandoned the idea. In order to provide any real redundancy or future expansion ability, I was going to spend a lot over 3.5".

NAS drives in 2.5" don't really have capacity, so I would have needed a 2 or 3 U rack case with lots of bays. You could mine drives, say 4TB Seagates out of external chassis, for a decent amount, though I'm not sure what the real world longevity is on these drives.

SDLeary

I picked up a CS280 and promptly returned it. I had 8 4tb 2.5" drives in it and drive temps were WAY too hot. I was seeing 50deg temps doing a parity check, in my P4000M chassis that has airflow the same drives are in the low 30's doing a parity check. There is no airflow over the drives and not really any room to add fans to help.

 

[fonix232]

For the case, it would be hand-made (hand-made as in I have a friend who owes me a few, works with CNC, and would cut it out to my specification from brushed aluminum, with finish and a place for the HDD rack).

I'm looking for a motherboard mostly. Something that is REALLY small footprint (think nano-ITX size, so around 10x17cm).

I'm planning on stacking all 8 hard drives on top of each other, which, with 12.5mm disks and each having 1-1cm "wiggle space" above and below (so in total, 32.5mm per disk), would give me an approx. 30cm height. By "wiggle space" I mean spacing between the disks used for airflow.

On top of that would sit the actual board, with 90° SATA cables connecting the drives. Power would be supplied for all from below, which will require a 5V 60W power supply (8 disks at most would consume around 8A, resulting in a 40W load, and the rest could go to the board, though I doubt there are many options that have a 5V input), which sizes at 150*100*40mm. As I will most likely need a separate 9/12/16V PSU for the board, I will need to rotate the PSU, making it 150*40*100mm. This way the PSU adds another 10cm to the height.

We're at 40cm in height now, with the board going on the top. Since we're already actively cooling the HDDs, an actively cooled board is not a problem. The disks are 100*70mm, so fitting the form factor of 100x150mm. However 170x170 (mini-ITX) would be, in my opinion, too much.

I'm not looking at putting a lot of pressure on it. My current setup (HP EliteBook 8530W with Core2Duo T9600, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and a beefy Nvidia Quadro FX 770M, 2x 1TB HGST 1TB drives) eats around 40W idle (the disks are around 2W each during heavy load), and 80-90W under heavy load. The CPU is at 35W, the GPU (unnecessary as nothing makes use of it, but the board won't boot without one) is also 35W, and the rest of the parts make up for the remaining 10-20W. Now, mostly the CPU is idling around 5-10%, and sometimes I fire up Plex to transcode a bit, which hits the CPU quite hard.

So for my use, 8x1TB disks with a minimal hardware would be fine. RAM is necessary though, as Plex Media Server likes to have some 2-3GB for lunch, and I would have some other software running too (mostly Transmission, Sonarr, and a few personal stuff). For my use, a mid-range Apollo Lake, integrated, would work fine. The point is, that the board should support either expansion via PCIe/mPCIe, and/or have enough SATA ports on board for at least 4 drives (but rather, 8).

 

[fonix232]

So, to simplify the task:

I'm looking for an Intel-based SBC that can fit a 150*150mm space and leave space for cabling. It should be integrated, can be actively cooled, and should have at least 4, but rather 8 SATA ports.

I saw that VIA has a board that has 2 SATA onboard, a PCIe 1x lane, and an mPCIe slot. That could make up to 8 drives work, but it needs a relatively large PCIe card.

 

[fonix232]

If you really want to stick with 2.5 drives, why not just use a NUC or equivalent and run them off a powered USB3 hub?

If that doesn't work for you, then scrounge eBay for an older SFF desktop. I have an older Dell Optiplex 790 with an i5 that idles under 20 watts that will take a few pcie cards. I see plenty of that vintage going for around 50 usd. It has a full size 5 1/4 DVD which you could replace with a 4 drive 2.5 for about 100 USD.

SFF is way too big for what I want it to be.

NUC's are expensive compared to contained hardware, and only have one or two SATA connectors, and none come with mPCIe any more (unfortunately the initial series weren't that successful here in Hungary, and getting one used from overseas... That's a tax nightmare). I'm yet to find a properly working M.2 SATA card that has 3-4 ports.

 

[tuatara]

mini ITX is easy. Smaller is harder. How much bandwidth do you need?

Suggestion:
- One of the Atom or Celeron nano-itx boards off AliExpress. Lots based on the J1900. Single SODIMM gets you 8 GB.
- A mPCIe to PCIe x1 riser off ebay. Modify to open the back of the connector
- an HBA + (breakout) cables, e.g., a m1015.
- an expander if you need more than 8 + 1 drives.

 

[fonix232]

That's what I'm thinking too, but the J1900 might be a bit too weak for my use-case.

mPCIe to PCIe might work, but I'll possibly need more than a x1 lane - that would only support 4 drives at SATA2 speeds.

 

[tuatara]

mPCIe itself is only x1 so that's all a riser can expose. PCIe 2.0 x1 is only 500 MBps so you'll be bandwidth constrained beyond even a single ssd, or ~4 HDD. I think most/all HBAs should negotiate fine with just a single lane.

From my knowledge, few boards smaller than mini-itx expose more than a mPCIe + msata. It'll be much, much easier to go with a mini-itx with enough onboard sata ports or a x16 slot. Otherwise, you'll have to look at esoteric/expensive/hard to obtain industrial boards, e.g., this nano itx board has mPCIe and a full x1 slot (NANO-6060 Intel Atom E3800 SoC Nano-ITX Board dual display USB 3.0).

If this is a NAS then won't you be network constrained to 1 Gbps anyway? So my original suggestion would still be able to saturate 1 GbE.

 

[fonix232]

I'm aware that network is the bottleneck here, but since the drives will be doing quite some reading and writing (just the moving of the files from Transmission's download location to the Plex media collection will require full SATA bandwidth!).

I've decided going with the ASRock J4205-ITX - unfortunately it is the only J4205 (or in general, Apollo Lake based) motherboard that is available to the public as of now. Both Gigabyte and MSI went in the gaming direction, and Asus is yet to release theirs...

 

[Joel]

If you're looking at an 8x1TB array, why not do a smaller array with bigger disks (say, 4x4TB)?

You could then fit a mITX board in, a setup like the *Antec ISK300 with a 5.25 adapter. Not sure how well that would do with cooling, etc.

 

[fonix232]

In the meantime I've put together a relatively small NAS - Intel G4560 with an MSI B250I PRO, in a Bitfenix Prodigy case.

 

[K D]

If you're looking at an 8x1TB array, why not do a smaller array with bigger disks (say, 4x4TB)?

You could then fit a mITX board in, a setup like the *Antec ISK300 with a 5.25 adapter. Not sure how well that would do with cooling, etc.

If you are set on 2.5 inch drives then the silverstone Cs01B-HS has 6 hotswap +2 non hotswap and looks promising.

Or if you want to go with bigger disks then UNAS has some real compact cases with 2 or 4 hot swap.

 

[Diavuno]

Is there any way to fully soundproof these spindle based NASes? I have a low tolerance for the mechanical sound of spinning disks.

Low RPM drives (5400 and under)
and the mounting screws that go through silicone grommets.

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