Need pfSense Low Power Build Advice

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mstone

Active Member
Mar 11, 2015
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I have no idea about mounting the Pico PSU. I was just going on recommendations. That's why I was asking if a Pico was the right choice or if I should get a more standard sized power supply. And if so, which one?
The advantage of a pico psu is that it takes up less space, so you can use it in a tiny case. Since you're getting a big case, that's not a factor. It can also be more efficient at really low power, but you're looking at the larger pico psu so that's not much of a factor. I'd just get something like

SeaSonic SSR-360GP 360W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC Power Supply-Newegg.com

and probably save some money. (The Seasonic is one that I've used before and been happy with, but the general idea is to just get something that's power efficient, relatively low wattage, and with a variable speed fan; at low utilization it's pretty much silent.)
 

Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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The advantage of a pico psu is that it takes up less space, so you can use it in a tiny case. Since you're getting a big case, that's not a factor. It can also be more efficient at really low power, but you're looking at the larger pico psu so that's not much of a factor. I'd just get something like

SeaSonic SSR-360GP 360W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC Power Supply-Newegg.com

and probably save some money. (The Seasonic is one that I've used before and been happy with, but the general idea is to just get something that's power efficient, relatively low wattage, and with a variable speed fan; at low utilization it's pretty much silent.)
Thank you very much. Just the response I needed.

Can you make a similar recommendation with storage? In still lost with the whole SSD and/or M.2 or msata thing and exactly which one I should get. This is for my home connection (150/150 Fios) and I plan to run some APPS (not sure which ones yet beyond OpenVPN) as a means of learning, at first.

A solid recommendation based on experience would be awesome. Thanks.

Another thing I still need to figure out is cooling.

With this processor (Kaby Lake i3-7100 3.9 GHz) and this case, what cpu cooler/fan should I grab? Noctua? Which one?... And am I good with the stock case fans?

Thanks a million.
 

Geran

Active Member
Oct 25, 2016
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The advantage of a pico psu is that it takes up less space, so you can use it in a tiny case. Since you're getting a big case, that's not a factor. It can also be more efficient at really low power, but you're looking at the larger pico psu so that's not much of a factor. I'd just get something like

SeaSonic SSR-360GP 360W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC Power Supply-Newegg.com

and probably save some money. (The Seasonic is one that I've used before and been happy with, but the general idea is to just get something that's power efficient, relatively low wattage, and with a variable speed fan; at low utilization it's pretty much silent.)
You know power supplies like that aren't really that efficient unless you get them in their sweet spot on the power curve which his system wouldn't be anywhere close to.

Also @Fodmidoid, here is a good build for under $350 and everything is included:

Case/PSU: M350 Enclosure with PicoPSU-80 and 60W adapter KIT
CPU/Motherboard: SuperMicro MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O
RAM: Kingston Technology Corp. KVR16LS11/4

Also what was wrong with this recommendation in your other thread? Need pfsense Low Power Build Advice
 
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mstone

Active Member
Mar 11, 2015
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Can you make a similar recommendation with storage? In still lost with the whole SSD and/or M.2 or msata thing and exactly which one I should get. This is for my home connection (150/150 Fios) and I plan to run some APPS (not sure which ones yet beyond OpenVPN) as a means of learning, at first.
Just get a low end 2.5" SATA SSD, save the M.2 slot for a future NVMe upgrade if you do something more disk intensive in the future.

Another thing I still need to figure out is cooling.

With this processor (Kaby Lake i3-7100 3.9 GHz) and this case, what cpu cooler/fan should I grab? Noctua? Which one?... And am I good with the stock case fans?
Stock everything; the CPU should come with a fan. Change the case fan later if it's too loud or something. But this build isn't pushing the envelope in any way, doesn't need fancy cooling.
 

mstone

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Mar 11, 2015
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You know power supplies like that aren't really that efficient unless you get them in their sweet spot on the power curve which his system wouldn't be anywhere close to.
Yes, but it will more efficient than a less efficient power supply, the fan basically won't run at all, and it gives him plenty of capacity to add drives or whatever if he wants to in the future. If he said that power efficiency was his top priority I'd have a different answer, but...he didn't. Similarly, if he wants a larger case to allow more room to add things, and having a small case isn't a high priority, why keep trying to shove him into a small case? Sometimes you help someone build what they want, not what you want.
 

Geran

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Oct 25, 2016
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Yes, but it will more efficient than a less efficient power supply, the fan basically won't run at all, and it gives him plenty of capacity to add drives or whatever if he wants to in the future. If he said that power efficiency was his top priority I'd have a different answer, but...he didn't. Similarly, if he wants a larger case to allow more room to add things, and having a small case isn't a high priority, why keep trying to shove him into a small case? Sometimes you help someone build what they want, not what you want.
It isn't a point of shoving him into a small case since his biggest thing is cost...yes I could put him in a case that is huge but then it is pointless and a waste. This is the problem now, everyone thinks they need a big case to fulfill their needs when a small case with a smaller footprint solves everything they need. Also he mentioned 1U servers in this post so that right there means he isn't against having a smaller footprint compared to the Thermaltake.

Again, I'm providing options and it is ultimately up to him to decide what he wants to do.

Last thing, if he knew what he wanted then he wouldn't be asking here for help on picking options. If I was pushing him towards what I want he would be in a 1U chassis with a C2558/C2758 or even a R210ii w/ 1240v2 from eBay.
 

mstone

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Mar 11, 2015
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It isn't a point of shoving him into a small case since his biggest thing is cost...yes I could put him in a case that is huge but then it is pointless and a waste. This is the problem now, everyone thinks they need a big case to fulfill their needs when a small case with a smaller footprint solves everything they need. Also he mentioned 1U servers in this post so that right there means he isn't against having a smaller footprint compared to the Thermaltake.

Again, I'm providing options and it is ultimately up to him to decide what he wants to do.
What he's talking about isn't exactly a '90s full tower. But the pico psu bundled case has already been suggested a couple of times and he keeps going back to the same one...

If you know that you want a dedicated device to just firewall, then a tiny case is ideal. If you're not entirely sure what you want, and may want to do something like virtualize the firewall and turn the hardware into a vm server with a few drives, that's going to be really hard to cram into a tiny case (and cooling the added hardware would depend on cramming tiny fans into the tiny case instead of using a big low-rpm fan in a bigger case). For someone who's already changed their mind a dozen times about what they want, having the flexibility to repurpose the box is probably useful, even if the box may end up being larger than it needs to be.
 

Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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You know power supplies like that aren't really that efficient unless you get them in their sweet spot on the power curve which his system wouldn't be anywhere close to.

Also @Fodmidoid, here is a good build for under $350 and everything is included:

Case/PSU: M350 Enclosure with PicoPSU-80 and 60W adapter KIT
CPU/Motherboard: SuperMicro MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O
RAM: Kingston Technology Corp. KVR16LS11/4

Also what was wrong with this recommendation in your other thread? Need pfsense Low Power Build Advice
Thanks. Are you referring to thjs recommendation from the other thread (J3355B)?
 

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Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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What he's talking about isn't exactly a '90s full tower. But the pico psu bundled case has already been suggested a couple of times and he keeps going back to the same one...

If you know that you want a dedicated device to just firewall, then a tiny case is ideal. If you're not entirely sure what you want, and may want to do something like virtualize the firewall and turn the hardware into a vm server with a few drives, that's going to be really hard to cram into a tiny case (and cooling the added hardware would depend on cramming tiny fans into the tiny case instead of using a big low-rpm fan in a bigger case). For someone who's already changed their mind a dozen times about what they want, having the flexibility to repurpose the box is probably useful, even if the box may end up being larger than it needs to be.
Thanks a lot guys.

For a little clarification, I'm actually not opposed to a small case at all. In fact, smaller the better. I'm also fine with a dedicated firewall. I haven't really changed my mind so much as I have been trying to keep open about possibilities.

I would be totally fine with a rackmount firewall. You could even say it's my preference since I have a small rack sitting there already. But, when it comes to small cases, the one thing I don't want is noise,and the other thing is that they may lack performance or ability to have at least 3 NICs which I want so I can have a DMZ.

For instance, I was really intrigued by the APU2C4, but I read that when using OpenVPN, it was only getting like 40 something Mbps if I remember correctly. It also seemed to be pegging one of the cores while the others were sitting idle. Otherwise, it seemed like a great solution.

Another issue I face with the small cases, is that the board may have only two NICs but then there's no way to add a PCIe card.

I only started leaning towards the i3 because so many people were saying that was the way to go. I really don't need to expand. I'd rather build specific and put the extra money, if any, towards the next cool project.

I hope this helps paint a better picture. You guys have been great. Thank you.
 
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mstone

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Mar 11, 2015
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For instance, I was really intrigued by the APU2C4, but I read that when using OpenVPN, it was only getting like 40 something Mbps if I remember correctly. It also seemed to be pegging one of the cores while the others were sitting idle.
An APU1 gets 40 or 50Mbps without AES-NI. The APU2 is faster (something like 80 or 90Mbps? I don't remember); if it was running at 50 it's probably because someone turned on that stupid "use hardware crypto" checkbox in pfsense. OpenVPN always pegs one core while the others sit idle, that's normal on any hardware. But yeah, if you want 150Mbps VPN on an APU2 you'd need to either use something other than OpenVPN or run multiple instances of OpenVPN.
 
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Fodmidoid

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So, the more I think about it, the more I like rackmount as a case solution, as long as it's quiet. It will be sitting in my living room where the wife and I also do a lot of reading.

Out of the following, which do you feel would be a better choice for my needs?
  1. SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O Mini ITX Server Motherboard Socket FCBGA1170 Intel N3700
  2. ASRock J3355B-ITX Intel Dual-Core Processor J3355 (up to to 2.5 GHz) Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo +additional PCIe Quad Port Intel NIC.
  3. SuperMicro A1SRI-2558F Mini-ITX Motherboard
  4. i3-7100 with ASRock H270M-ITX a/c (is rackmounting feasible?)
  5. APU2C4 build (I realize this isn't rackmount but wanted to include it as a possible option).

Thanks.
 
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mattr

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Aug 1, 2013
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The 505-203B has no fans. It's intended to be used with SoC board with fan on CPU. The 510-203B has 2 fans in the front that blow directly over a passive CPU heatsink. The tradeoff is the ports will be in the back of the chassis instead of the front where you would normally have your appliance and network gear ports.
 

Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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You know power supplies like that aren't really that efficient unless you get them in their sweet spot on the power curve which his system wouldn't be anywhere close to.

Also @Fodmidoid, here is a good build for under $350 and everything is included:

Case/PSU: M350 Enclosure with PicoPSU-80 and 60W adapter KIT
CPU/Motherboard: SuperMicro MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O
RAM: Kingston Technology Corp. KVR16LS11/4

Also what was wrong with this recommendation in your other thread? Need pfsense Low Power Build Advice
Thanks again, Geran.

It seems that the SuperMicro MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O has some known issues within the pfSense community. Many people have had to RMA the board and wait weeks for SM to perform a non-disclosed fix before sending it back. Most recent firmware upgrades have shown to improve this for some, but others are still complaining of resets.

X11SBA-LN4F vs A1SRi-2558F

The ASRock J3355B-ITX Only has one NIC and from what I've read, the board has a x16 PCIe slot operating at x1 which one would limit me to a dual-port card because quad-port NICs operate at x4. Isince I only need a total of 3 NICs for WAN/LAN/DMZ, this could still work out, I guess, but I wasn't sure if something else may be lacking or whatever. Any thought on these two scenarios?

I would love to find a good solution I can run quietly in a rack mount case and finally start ordering parts.

Thanks.
 

fsck

Member
Oct 10, 2013
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Mind used?
I'm assuming you're american. The great deals subforum listed the ebay box below for like 90$ shipped (I dunno if that price is still valid).

Grab a Supermicro 1U Server X9SCI-LN4F Barebones (Add Your CPU / Memory / Hard Drives) | eBay
The X9SCI-LN4F has 4*82574L's which work fine. One usable PCIE port will let you add a nic if you want 10G or something.
You could have a fully functional box for <200$ with it.

If you really did want quiet, going with a 2U or 3U would be better. 80mm or 92mm fans at <500rpm will move a usable amount of air while still remaining whisper quiet.

If you haunt ebay, you can probably get a ridiculously good deal.
I got this box: SUPERMICRO 1U SERVER X9SCI-LN4 Board Celeron G550 2.6Ghz 80GB Intel SSD, 2GB RAM | eBay for 99$ USD + 77$ shipping...
 

Geran

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Oct 25, 2016
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Thanks again, Geran.

It seems that the SuperMicro MBD-X11SBA-LN4F-O has some known issues within the pfSense community. Many people have had to RMA the board and wait weeks for SM to perform a non-disclosed fix before sending it back. Most recent firmware upgrades have shown to improve this for some, but others are still complaining of resets.

X11SBA-LN4F vs A1SRi-2558F

The ASRock J3355B-ITX Only has one NIC and from what I've read, the board has a x16 PCIe slot operating at x1 which one would limit me to a dual-port card because quad-port NICs operate at x4. Isince I only need a total of 3 NICs for WAN/LAN/DMZ, this could still work out, I guess, but I wasn't sure if something else may be lacking or whatever. Any thought on these two scenarios?

I would love to find a good solution I can run quietly in a rack mount case and finally start ordering parts.

Thanks.
What's your budget?
 

Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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What's your budget?
Well, following this, I plan to put together a home server to run some VMs on, so I was initially trying to get this done cheap. But, soon after, I realized that wasn't as possible as it seemed without something missing, or lacking. That's why I was considering the possibility of just running this as a VM for a moment. I'm seriously considering a Xeon D-15xx build for the home server build.

I guess it needs to be around $500 or so. Less would be nice. I can't believe I'm spending this much on a home router/firewall, lol. Insane.

But I want something that will do 150/150 Mbps with room to grow, plus has AES-NI, (is Quick Assist important?), 3 Intel NICs (on board or PCIe), rackmount preferred (half-depth).
 
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Fodmidoid

Member
Dec 29, 2016
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Mind used?
I'm assuming you're american. The great deals subforum listed the ebay box below for like 90$ shipped (I dunno if that price is still valid).

Grab a Supermicro 1U Server X9SCI-LN4F Barebones (Add Your CPU / Memory / Hard Drives) | eBay
The X9SCI-LN4F has 4*82574L's which work fine. One usable PCIE port will let you add a nic if you want 10G or something.
You could have a fully functional box for <200$ with it.

If you really did want quiet, going with a 2U or 3U would be better. 80mm or 92mm fans at <500rpm will move a usable amount of air while still remaining whisper quiet.

If you haunt ebay, you can probably get a ridiculously good deal.
I got this box: SUPERMICRO 1U SERVER X9SCI-LN4 Board Celeron G550 2.6Ghz 80GB Intel SSD, 2GB RAM | eBay for 99$ USD + 77$ shipping...
No, I'm not opposed to used at all. In fact, it's not a bad idea. I assuned there were people selling things here, but wasn't aware of a used subforum. Is there a clickable link from the main forums page here?
 

Fodmidoid

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Dec 29, 2016
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Wow...I started reconsidering the SuperMicro A1SRI-2558F because out of all of this, that seemed to be the one system that was flawless for pfSense, but now I'm reading about a C2000 bug. This is just crazy.