S9SCL-F, 1U cse510-200B, Heatsink for $119 FS

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Flintstone

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Jun 11, 2016
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I actually considered this when it got listed, as I had a e3-1230 around and I have a X9SCM-F with a v2 cpu that is working great, but decided not to - and sold my E3 a few days ago. The cost of a E3 v2 cpu + unbuffered ram is high. My $150 or so 48GB dual L5630 gets me the same geekbench as my E3-1240v2. Of course the power requirements are at issue, but cost of cpu+ram on this will get you a long way to a more current system (IMHO).
 
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nthu9280

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Feb 3, 2016
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Flintstone said:
I actually considered this when it got listed, as I had a e3-1230 around and I have a X9SCM-F with a v2 cpu that is working great, but decided not to - and sold my E3 a few days ago. The cost of a E3 v2 cpu + unbuffered ram is high. My $150 or so 48GB dual L5630 gets me the same geekbench as my E3-1240v2. Of course the power requirements are at issue, but cost of cpu+ram on this will get you a long way to a more current system (IMHO).
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The chassis+ps is about that price on other listings. So thought it is a good deal as this listing includes MB.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
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techtoys

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I bought one of the 1155 boards with LSI 2008 from the seller. Good seller.
Anything anyone want to know?
 
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svt3391

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Actually boards with LGA1155 CPUs support both ECC and non-ECC ram.
It's all up to what the purpose is for. If used for storage -- FreeNAS comes into mind -- then ECC ram is a must.
Otherwise, the much cheaper non-ECC ram works properly.

I think OP was considering using it for pfSense? For that purpose, an Ivy Bridge Celeron and non-ECC ram should work fine. And those CPUs are cheap on ebay as well.

I currently use a much older Foxconn PC with Sandy Bridge Celeron CPU and 8GB non-ECC ram and installed dd-wrt X86. It has been my router for over a year and half. I use Verizon FiOS 75mb/75mb and it has working fine for me without any issue.
 
BackupProphet

BackupProphet

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ECC ram is not a must for neither FreeNAS and ZFS. Please stop, whoever is saying it is wrong. ECC memory is nice to have, but not a requirement. ZFS is safer than NTFS/EXT4 even without ECC memory.

The thing with non-ECC memory is that it is similar priced to unbuffered ECC ram, just slightly cheaper. While 4GB ECC Reg dimms can be had for $3 per module and 8GB Reg dimms for $10 per module.
 
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svt3391

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FreeNAS and ZFS can be installed on system with non-ECC ram and it will still run. I don't know if the non-ECC ram caused silent corruption of data has been addressed recently or not, but when I first started my FreeNAS installation, I followed religiously what the FreeNAS people said. I think the official forum has more authority and understanding on this issue. When the conclusion is to use ECC memory to avoid silent data corruption, I followed because I care about the data I am storing.

ECC vs non-ECC RAM and ZFS on FreeNAS forum. There are over 16 pages of good discussion (309 to be exact). Many of the contributors possess a much higher knowledge than me on that aspect. Anyone interested can visit that link. The forum guru jgreco summed up the conclusion on the last page (post #302) "...non-ECC is unsafe for your data in all cases, but it is MORE dangerous with ZFS...".

Motherboard with 1155 socket can only take unbuffered RAM, and the last time I check, the unbuffered ECC ram is still priced much higher than the non-ECC counterparts. And also these system can only take 32GB. The Reg ECC ram price is much better, but this thread is about systems with Socket 1155 so the Reg DIMM does not apply.
 
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BackupProphet

BackupProphet

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I strongly advice against taking any undocumented ZFS advice from the FreeNAS community/developers. It's similar to quackery. What I linked to in my previous post was from one of the core ZFS developers which has quite deeper understanding of this topic.
 
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techtoys

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yeah, I just came across the issue of RDIMM vs UDIMM cost on the 1155.
I will do the main compute and virtualization on dual 2011 + RDIMM and use the 1155 + less UDIMM (ECC) for a Microsoft file server.
I wanted to experiment with the new features in storage pools.

when I started a $70 board with an LSI 2008 seemed like a good deal
 
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fractal

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Personal opinions on whether ECC is required, optional or recommended for ZFS aside, the Supermicro X9SCL requires DDR3 Unbuffered ECC memory. It will NOT run with NON-ECC memory. Not only does the manual say so, I just tried it. It just sits there and beeps unhappily at you. It mumbled about my ancestry and then continued doing its job once I returned its Unbuffered ECC memory.

Now that we are past facts and into opinions ... I recommend ECC memory for any server, ZFS or not. I guess I would increase my opinion from "recommended" to "recommended" if you add ZFS into the equation :)
 
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pricklypunter

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I think it's safe to say that if your hardware requires data integrity to properly function, and servers pretty much fall squarely into that field, then ECC memory is a requirement, not just something to be recommended. Servers should never be run on any else, regardless of OS or filesystem used, period. With the exception perhaps, of a quick trial/ test install on a desktop for evaluation purposes etc, there's simply no good reason to use non ECC memory in any server, even if that server hardware may actually be able to boot/ run with it installed. Any higher cost involved for using ECC memory shouldn't even play into any decision to use it or not and if it does, you can't afford to get in the game, it's that simple. You never see or hear of Dell, HP, Cisco et al, or any other server manufacturer, offer you a "cheaper" alternative just because you are not planning on using ZFS, or for that matter, recommend ECC memory because you plan on using the hardware for a FreeNAS install, that would just be ludicrous. Neither are they just out to make more money by selling you ECC memory, they have a lot of other ways to reach into your pocket, but that is not one of them.

I have seen more arguments, discussions and opinions about whether the cost/ benefits are worth it over the years, than I have had coffee's, and with very, very few exceptions, they are all flawed :)
 
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fractal

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HorizonXP said:
I have the X9SCM board on the way, and I picked up two sets of these: Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR3/DDR3L-1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B/CT2CP102472BD160B at Amazon.com

Expensive, but it should work.

Right now, I'm still trying to find a CPU for this thing at a decent price though.
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That's decent memory at current market price. It should work. I have bought a fair amount of the unbuffered ECC Kingston value ram from Amazon at a similar price.

I have three of the X9SCL's. One has an i3-2100, another has an i3-2100t and the third has a Celeron G1610. I have another on order with an E3-1220. I guess I like them ;)

I see the 1610 on eBay for 20-25 USD. I see G2020's for 30-40 which will are a bit faster. i3-2100's run 40-50. I just spotted an i3-2100T for $43 on eBay looking to make this post so I bought it. The slower, low power versions are usually more expensive but I like to use them for file servers where power consumption is a driving factor. You can probably use the slightly faster, slightly lower power 3rd generation processors if you have a new enough bios. I have not personally tested this.
 
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svt3391

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Feb 11, 2016
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Interesting, the original discussion was on a particular server, and then it became discussion on ECC memory.

My take is, if the system requires ECC, like the server board OP listed, then there's no other option.
The motherboard I linked can take either. That's the time when one needs to determine what kind of memory to use. If cost is a concern and the use is not data critical like ZFS storage, then it may be okay to use regular UDIMM. If the cost is not a concern, and/or the app/data is of high importance, ECC it is.
 
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pricklypunter

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svt3391 said:
The motherboard I linked can take either. That's the time when one needs to determine what kind of memory to use. If cost is a concern and the use is not data critical like ZFS storage, then it may be okay to use regular UDIMM. If the cost is not a concern, and/or the app/data is of high importance, ECC it is.
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Actually, neither board supports the use of non ECC UDIMMS, even if they were able to boot using them :)






And we're back to the hocus that servers should use anything other than ECC memory if money is tight :D :D

Here's a good quote from someone at a serious company that treats data integrity as important as the air we breathe but also loves to shave off the pennies wherever possible, and these guys really do love saving money. Also, there's no ZFS in sight, just plain jane EXT4 being used.

This is from Brian at Backblaze and came from Hacker News:

brianwski 1841 days ago | parent | favorite | on: 135TB for $7,384 - Backblaze Pod 2.0

Yes, the RAM is ECC. Here is a link: http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=CT25672B...

The ECC RAM absolutely does find and corrects problems (we see them in the logs). However, just to be absolutely clear we would not need ECC RAM -> Backblaze checksums EVERYTHING on an end-to-end basis (mostly we use SHA-1). This is so important I cannot stress this highly enough, each and every file and portion of file we store has our own checksum on the end, and we use this all over the place. For example, we pass over the data every week or so reading it, recalculating the checksums, and if a single bit has been thrown we heal it up either from our own copies of the data or ask the client to re-transmit that file or part of that file.

At the large amount of data we store, our checksums catch errors at EVERY level - RAM, hard drive, network transmission, everywhere. I suppose consumers just do not notice when a single bit in one of their JPEG photos has been flipped -> one pixel gets every so slightly more red or something. Only one photo changes out of their collection of thousands. But at our crazy numbers of files stored we see it (and fix it) daily.
 
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svt3391

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Yes, I can see that you also get the B400 manual. I have the same user's manual you posted. :)
I guess like all the server board manufacturers, they only list ECC memory because of their intended usage. Different from the SM motherboard in OP's list, this board not only boots with non-ECC ram, but I was able to install VMware ESXi on it and tested it for a while. Now it is the host of my spare FreeNAS that I migrated from a Dell T110 II server, and I put 32GB of ECC ram in it. But it does work okay without ECC ram. That's why I think that was a pretty good buy.

I got a dual LGA2011 board from the same seller as well. Contrary to the B400, the mini-SAS port is not powered by a LSI2008 chip. For the price/performance ratio, the LGA1155 board itself delivers very decent value.

BTW, like what you put in that Half decent "All in One" Build thread. :)
 
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