[Update: Hired!] Startups and I don’t fit: got let go yesterday

[ReturnedSword]

Yeah, the benefits of being younger with no family to raise yet

I learned a lot, especially working for big enterprises. There are software and hardware someone doing SMB can only dream of - all available to download and muck around with. The most I ever stayed on for any contract was about a year, so I was exposed to many things.

That being said, it feels like the golden years of consulting is less bright now. My own career started at the tail end of the hey day. I certainly envy my predecessors sometimes who did consulting work in the 90s and early aughts. There just seems to be a lot more politics now, and it’s difficult to compete against large contracting companies.

 

[ecosse]

I'd accept one of the jobs - its always easier mentally to find another when you aren't worried about the next pay cheque / getting deported / getting kicked out of your house etc. In my younger days I'd have more confidence in my abilities i.e. I'd chose the startup. Now I'm old I'd probably play safe.

I find some of the advice a bit confusing with respect to working in London. As much as I hate to work there, generally you get better contract rates and better salaries for IT positions - I don't recognise those comments regarding low pay (anyone ever worked in Middlesborough or Wolverhampton - you don't know what low pay really is?!?) You don't actually need to live in London, though the commute isn't great from the southern railway sides (in general the Bedford-Brighton line I use is fine and has seats until St Albans) and train tickets peak cost a fair whack. As you get to know the company then generally you can work 1-2 days at home (depending on the job) which improves the lifestyle and potentially can cut the travel cost.

I'd probably prefer to work / live in Norway having said that!

If the offers fall through check out www.jobserve.com or cwjobs for the UK - the former has some jobs in Germany as well.

 

[ecosse]

Fair enough I’ll do more research. I’d prefer a stable company too I think I’ve been burned by startups.

Was it better before brexit?

Brexit hasn't actually happened yet. It still might not, if any political party has the will to ask the question again of the people.

 

[ecosse]

Omg, no.. Don't move to London. Just don't.
Perhaps search for "Britain nanny state" or "reasons not to live in london" or "average work day london" or even "cost of driving in london" or maybe just go HERE.

What about the netherlands, belgium, spain, italy, Switzerland, or just about any other country?!

EDIT: I'm sorry, I know that wasn't helpful but I've spent a LOT of time in Europe both living and working and London is just about the worst place to live IMHO.

Further EDIT: It appears that TransferWise still requires funding every year and is still considered a "start up". With the labour laws out there I'd stay away. Far, far away...

Hmmm I've spent a lot of time working in Europe and working with Europeans and lived twice in London as well as working / living around the UK and spent some time living California and whilst I guess I agree that London is the place I'd probably not want to go back to that is reflective of my dislike of big cities rather than anything else.

The (un)fortunate thing about the internet is its pretty easy to find opposing views e.g.
here's a link that states British work shorter hours than the US in general - including London.

6 major differences between how Americans and Brits work

Here's another stating that the British work shorter hours than most of Europe.

What an average work day looks like in 18 countries around the world

Having posted the above I'm not actually sure I believe it completely but one thing is true - UK does not equal London.

 

[manxam]

here's a link that states British work shorter hours than the US in general - including London.

I guess I should have prefaced my comment. Having worked in Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Britain, Sweden, etc, I found that the London, SPECIFICALLY, had longer average working hours than any other city within Europe.
Having said that, NOTHING compares to the average work week in North America, especially if you're considered a "professional" which often requires 50-60 hour work weeks, salaried, with no OT.

Half of the draw of Europe is the much more relaxed attitude toward work. You go in during your scheduled hours, do your job, and leave.
You also get way more work done because there isn't this inane need for meetings every 30 minutes.

In some places (like Germany), you can't even be contacted outside of working hours without a penalty to the company.

 

[gigatexal]

In some places (like Germany), you can't even be contacted outside of working hours without a penalty to the company.

So says the law. But the social pressure to be a team player and go above and beyond is such that this gets broken all the time. At least it did where I worked. Towards the end the team had an almost mastabatory fascination with announcing they had worked after hours or all weekend.

 

[ecosse]

I guess I should have prefaced my comment. Having worked in Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Britain, Sweden, etc, I found that the London, SPECIFICALLY, had longer average working hours than any other city within Europe.
Having said that, NOTHING compares to the average work week in North America, especially if you're considered a "professional" which often requires 50-60 hour work weeks, salaried, with no OT.

Half of the draw of Europe is the much more relaxed attitude toward work. You go in during your scheduled hours, do your job, and leave.
You also get way more work done because there isn't this inane need for meetings every 30 minutes.

In some places (like Germany), you can't even be contacted outside of working hours without a penalty to the company.

You shouldn't have equated London to UK and yes you should have made it very clear that is was your personal opinion - a sample of one. That link I provided begs to differ and incidentally you are talking about the capital of the UK and the financial capital of Europe.

Here's a few links that show the difference between the UK and the rest of Europe is not that pronounced - the stats seems to say a hell of a lot of countries do their scheduled hours and then go home

How many hours do Europeans work per week?
This country works the longest hours in Europe
Which EU countries have the longest working weeks?

So you are saying that nothing equates to the long working hours in NA - not even like for instance third world factory workers?

The Life of a Chinese Factory Worker
Foxconn: Working Conditions in Chinese Factories | Facing Finance

Anyway, completely off topic so I'll leave it here

 

[manxam]

You shouldn't have equated London to UK and yes you should have made it very clear that is was your personal opinion.
So you are saying that nothing equates to the long working hours in NA - not even like for instance third world factory workers?

Firstly, I did say "IMHO" in my original post meaning "In my humble opinion". I did not say that I took a poll and this was the consensus.

Secondly, we're talking about first-world countries here as @gigatexal is from the US and moved to Germany. Of course there are far worse working conditions and longer hours but you're now comparing what equates to slave labour to an IT professional. Don't get carried away on that high horse of yours...

 

[ecosse]

Firstly, I did say "IMHO" in my original post meaning "In my humble opinion". I did not say that I took a poll and this was the consensus.

Secondly, we're talking about first-world countries here as @gigatexal is from the US and moved to Germany. Of course there are far worse working conditions and longer hours but you're now comparing what equates to slave labour to an IT professional. Don't get carried away on that high horse of yours...

My high horse comes from the rhetoric you use without any clear facts which are tantamount to scaremongering (not even mentioned yet your wonderful "crime is rampant" emotive or your incredible grasp of why we voted for Brexit)

Btw, for the record you said IMHO on one paragraph, not the rest.

 

[manxam]

My high horse comes from the rhetoric you use without any clear facts which are tantamount to scaremongering (not even mentioned yet your wonderful "crime is rampant" emotive or your incredible grasp of why we voted for Brexit)

Btw, for the record you said IMHO on one paragraph, not the rest.

I didn't realize that I had to constantly repeat myself and suffix everything with "and this is only my opinion" over-and-over again.

Regarding the crime rate, it has, indeed, gone up appreciably over the last several years with acts of vandalism, thefts, muggings, and even murders exceeding those of the major US cities. This is NOT rhetoric. This is fact.

As for Brexit, I didn't go back and read my post but believe I said it was mostly a financial decision and, therefore, wouldn't have much affect on the other opinions I had stated.

While I'm not from the UK myself, I understand that the #1 motivator for Brexit was Economics. It would appear that the larger media outlets agree with that sentiment. There are other reasons obviously, but I didn't think they had any bearing on this topic.

With that said.. I think we've both gotten a little far afield of the original topic and, perhaps, a little too "animated" in our discussion.

Feel free to rebut and then can we call a truce?

 

[kapone]

Brexit .. or the whole concept of it, began from one man. George Soros.

He has...history...with the UK.

 

[nthu9280]

Wondering if STH forums are slowly turning into AnandTech

 

[Aestr]

Ya this is getting a bit of track here. Maybe we can get back to trying to help @gigatexal.

FWIW as a Canadian living in the US right now I have a similar position of needing employment to stay in the country. As I intend to stay here long term it was important to me to stick with an established company that was not likely to disappear in the near future. Once I have a long term status (green card) I'd be more willing to look at riskier endeavors that interest me more.

If your goal is to stay in Europe above all else my opinion is you should focus on the roles with established companies with good financials and ideally limited or no history of mass layoffs. That will give you a safe platform to get settled and plan out your next 5 years and process to get permanent residency. After that you can do whatever makes you happiest. Ideally you love what your doing at first too, but sometimes you have to sacrifice.

If this is just a fling for fun and you ultimately don't care if/when you have to go back to the US then you can take those riskier startup jobs that are more interesting or pay more, but the read I get from what you've post is that your're trying to make this a long term thing.

Regardless as someone else with an work status that isn't guaranteed I wish you the best!

 

[gigatexal]

@Aestr that sucks man! I'll PM you maybe there's someone in my US network I can set you up with.

Regarding a strong financial company -- the company I have an interview today with -- I'll not name just yet -- but is a big multinational with 45k or so employees but has gone private and then public at least once. So it's got a 9-ish billion dollar market cap but about 8-billion in debt! Many of the team has been with the same EU subsidiary for 10+ years and during their time as a private entity outsourcing companies were brought in to cut costs. That being said they're my only solid interview in the last 3 weeks of searching full-time. Today will be a 4-5 hour one, the exact specifics of the interview I don't know. Could be some panel, some hands on tests, etc. (Reading those last couple of lines it sounds like being jumped into a gang...)

 

[cesmith9999]

Good luck

Chris

 

[K D]

@gigatexal Good luck.

As someone who has been in the US on an employment based Visa, I understand the pressure of maintaining a stable employment irrespective of your financial status. I've had to make hard decisions on not taking up a couple of really interesting jobs over the past few years just because I felt that the place was not stable enough. @Aestr . Things do change once you get your permanent residency and good offers will keep coming.

 

[manxam]

Sorry guys, I got my hackles up and didn't mean to turn this into an internet flame war
@gigatexal : How did the interview go? Was it in Germany or another country?

Crossing my fingers for you!

 

[gigatexal]

You guys really are too kind.

The job interview was with Nielsen Media Group. Cool company, really cool team, interesting "dark matter" dev work. Windows Forms and C# and Postgres mostly. I hadn't had an on-site, interviewer-looking-over-your-shoulder test like that in a long time and I think the stress got to me but I think it went well overall and should know today what the decision is. There's a number of startups that have expressed interest as well. I have two first round interviews today!

Again, the amount of concern and people reaching out via PMs has been awesome.

"Dark Matter" dev being one who builds software for mostly internal consumption.

 

[gigatexal]

Nielsen will call at 5PM German time to discuss money and particulars!

I've the awesome problem of having at a few other really cool jobs I'm interviewing for.

So the question is: with European cultural norms in mind what would be a non-jerk amount of time to ask HR for in terms of giving them a decision as I want to be able to take this job if the others fall apart.

 

[gigatexal]

Wondering if STH forums are slowly turning into AnandTech

in what way?