File Server and Hyper-V

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bildform.

New Member
Mar 25, 2015
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Hello,

I am new to server stuff, but I think I understand a few of the concepts. I just cannot get my head around the fileserver and filesharing. The server is mostly for 3d assets for rendering, and the network contains two render nodes and a workstation all on the same switch.

I bought myself a Dell T20 and put two 500gb ssd and and 2 4TB HDD and another two 4TB Hdd as backup space into it + a quad nic. I installed server 2016, formatted the ssds and hdds with refs. The 2 ssd and 2 hdd are mirrored and use storage tiers. (the other two 4tb hdds are just mirrored.

I want to use the server as file server. Is it useful to put the file server into a virtual machine? What do I have watch out for when doing that?

Is it correct to create a virtual machine and and two virtual discs (one for work stuff and one for some private stuff) or would I just create a 4tb virtual disc and create shares on that virtual disc?
I would backup the virtual machine and the virtual discs to the other 4tb hhds.

Some additional questions:
Should I install a domain controller/active directory/dhcp? Can I install those with the file server?
Is it a problem to install a license server (v-ray) that uses a usb dongle on the hyper-v host?
Would it be a problem to install plex and a few other license server on the hyper-v server, too? Or should I create another virtual machine for those?
I only have dell t20 with the xeon and 20GB ram. Is it even a good idea to have a second virtual machine?

Thank you for your help,
Jan
 

vl1969

Active Member
Feb 5, 2014
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it is not advisable to run any roles except Hyper-V on the HOST.
your hardware is the Host so you should only run Hyper-V on it if you plan to do that.
in older versions you could not run(well you could but was not advisable) any other roles on the Host.
if I understand correctly what MS is saying, in 2016 documentation , the 2016 server, even running as Hyper-V host can now double as a file server if you use the storage spaces setup. thus you don't need a separate file server, but I might have missed something in translation from GeekTalk :)

now if you do plan to run VMs on this hardware, than all other roles should be in VMs.
and unless this was already fixed in 2016 Hyper-V, you might have problems booting VM from USB stick.
older Hyper-V version had.
 

littleredwagen

New Member
Dec 8, 2016
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I personally like using my Fileservers as VMs makes them portable and easy to move to new hardware and backup as well. If you are need security on file shares a DC is a good thing, but not required. If you visualize the environment the DC and File server would be two different virtual machines. When you install the Windows AD DS role it installs DNS, DHCP you could also install and making your server easier to find from clients.

The power of VMs is you don't need to overload one OS with multiple server applications.

For USB Dongles Hyper-V 2016 includes DDA for some devices, but there are third party apps to connect USB passthroughs.

With your ram question just watch your assignment of resources. With Hyper-V 2012 and Up it supported Dynamic ram so it doesn't allocate all resources instantly on when it is needed. FWIW I run my DCs with 2GBs of Ram assigned and they are fine. since they only run AD DS, DNS, and DHCP
 

bildform.

New Member
Mar 25, 2015
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Thank you for the answers so far.

Is it correct to create a virtual machine and and two virtual discs (one for work stuff and one for some private stuff) or would I just create a 4tb virtual disc and create shares on that virtual disc?
I would backup the virtual machine and the virtual discs to the other 4tb hhds.
Does anybody have more information about this part of my questions? Or knows where I can read about it?
 

littleredwagen

New Member
Dec 8, 2016
11
2
3
42
Thank you for the answers so far.



Does anybody have more information about this part of my questions? Or knows where I can read about it?
There is no right or wrong way to do that, It is entirely up to you. I personally use VMs with up to two Virtual disks total (OS and File Store). For ease of backup though I might have the filserver OS VM disk also house the data and on one virtual disk. Doesn't really matter. Just make sure your security permissions and file share permissions are set the way they need to be
 

NashBrydges

Member
Apr 30, 2015
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I am new to server stuff, but I think I understand a few of the concepts. I just cannot get my head around the fileserver and filesharing. The server is mostly for 3d assets for rendering, and the network contains two render nodes and a workstation all on the same switch.

I bought myself a Dell T20 and put two 500gb ssd and and 2 4TB HDD and another two 4TB Hdd as backup space into it + a quad nic. I installed server 2016, formatted the ssds and hdds with refs. The 2 ssd and 2 hdd are mirrored and use storage tiers. (the other two 4tb hdds are just mirrored.

I want to use the server as file server. Is it useful to put the file server into a virtual machine? What do I have watch out for when doing that?

Is it correct to create a virtual machine and and two virtual discs (one for work stuff and one for some private stuff) or would I just create a 4tb virtual disc and create shares on that virtual disc?
I would backup the virtual machine and the virtual discs to the other 4tb hhds.

Some additional questions:
Should I install a domain controller/active directory/dhcp? Can I install those with the file server?
Is it a problem to install a license server (v-ray) that uses a usb dongle on the hyper-v host?
Would it be a problem to install plex and a few other license server on the hyper-v server, too? Or should I create another virtual machine for those?
I only have dell t20 with the xeon and 20GB ram. Is it even a good idea to have a second virtual machine?

Thank you for your help,
Jan
To begin with, you mention Hyper-V in your post but not whether you have a Windows Server license with the Hyper-V role installed on your server or whether you have Hyper-V Server 2012 R2 which is the free hypervisor. This is an important distinction and for the sake of conversation, I'll assume you have a full Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard license.

As others have mentioned, your server should act as the host and everything else should be running off a virtual machine. If you have Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard with Hyper-V role installed, you are allowed to install 2 virtual machines on the server and use the same license key, provided that your host is running no other roles other than Hyper-V. If you are using your host as a file server, then you are only allowed 1 additional virtual machine using the same license key. You are free to install as many virtual machines as your hardware can handle if you have licenses for those other OSs or are using Linux.

I want to use the server as file server. Is it useful to put the file server into a virtual machine? What do I have watch out for when doing that?
Yes, definitely run the file server as a virtual machine. It will be running as if it is its own server, you'll provide access to the data and no one will know that it is a virtual machine except you.

Is it correct to create a virtual machine and and two virtual discs (one for work stuff and one for some private stuff) or would I just create a 4tb virtual disc and create shares on that virtual disc?
Yes, you can create as many virtual disks as you can support, however the current best practice is to create 1 large disk that will include your VM operating system as well as your data. Otherwise the disk you allocate to the operating system will likely be over-allocated and you'll have wasted space. I would create 1 large disk and share its folders accordingly. But if you prefer having separate OS and data disks, you definitely can.


Should I install a domain controller/active directory/dhcp? Can I install those with the file server?
Unless you are running a very large organization, active directory is not a resource intensive function at all so feel free to bundle that with your file server. Having said that, do you NEED active directory or do you just THINK you need it. If you only have 3-4 users on the server, I would rethink active directory, only because it does add complexity. But it's up to you.

Would it be a problem to install plex and a few other license server on the hyper-v server, too? Or should I create another virtual machine for those?
Definitely install Plex server as a virtual machine. In fact, install it as a Linux virtual machine and there are no licencing costs. I have mine running as a VM on Hyper-V at home and love it.

QUOTE="bildform., post: 120857, member: 3887"]
I only have dell t20 with the xeon and 20GB ram. Is it even a good idea to have a second virtual machine?[/QUOTE]

This is a relatively small server so you'll have limited resources to assign to VMs but should still be more than enough unless there are other functions that you haven't mentioned. The T20 can easily run many more than 2 VMs, it just depends on what functions those VMs will be performing.
 
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bildform.

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Mar 25, 2015
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Thank you Nash. That is a lot to think about.

I am using Server 2016. I will have a vm with file server on one disk and another disk for private stuff.
Dc, dhcp and ad is just for me to get to know it and we use it at my other workplace.

When I finally understand that, I will try to get a reliable site to site vpn connection with aws (for rendering)...
 

Connorise

Member
Mar 2, 2017
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US. Cambridge
Thank you Nash. That is a lot to think about.

I am using Server 2016. I will have a vm with file server on one disk and another disk for private stuff.
Dc, dhcp and ad is just for me to get to know it and we use it at my other workplace.

When I finally understand that, I will try to get a reliable site to site vpn connection with aws (for rendering)...
Hello,

I am just curious how your searching ended?

My plan is to deploy SOFS on top of Hyper-V free version, so any recommendations will be much appreciated.
 
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bildform.

New Member
Mar 25, 2015
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Hi,
I did not do anything complicated I think. In the end I did not use DC, DHCP or AD.
And I did it while reading about it and it works now. But to replicate it, I would read much of it again.

I cannot be of much help.
 

NISMO1968

[ ... ]
Oct 19, 2013
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San Antonio, TX
www.vmware.com
While you can definitely do that, it's a clear EULA violation. You can't run any software on Hyper-V server, and you can't use it for anything except actual VMs.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Use...Terms_Retail_HyperVServer2016_All_English.htm

The instance of the server software running in the physical operating system environment may be used only to:

· provide hardware virtualization services, and/or

· run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.


Hello,

I am just curious how your searching ended?

My plan is to deploy SOFS on top of Hyper-V free version, so any recommendations will be much appreciated.
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,346
598
113
Will you have any windows VM's ?
Standard allows the Hypervisor to provide file services for HyperV from memory, not anything else but limited use SMB share I think is ok. Can't find the Microsoft doc now but if somebody thinks otherwise I can try to find it.
 

vl1969

Active Member
Feb 5, 2014
634
76
28
While you can definitely do that, it's a clear EULA violation. You can't run any software on Hyper-V server, and you can't use it for anything except actual VMs.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Use...Terms_Retail_HyperVServer2016_All_English.htm

The instance of the server software running in the physical operating system environment may be used only to:

· provide hardware virtualization services, and/or

· run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
actually with Server 2016 it is not a violation providing you use the storage spaces function.
new Server 2016 Hyper-V HOST can function as SOFS and also provides an option of distributed file system to be used in a cluster, eliminating the need for shared storage like SAN/NAS.
theoretically you can build out a couple of 2016 servers with storage spaces,
and add them up into a cluster putting all the internal storage ( local storage) into one big shared storage to be used by cluster and as file server for all the VMs running on it.
 

NISMO1968

[ ... ]
Oct 19, 2013
87
13
8
San Antonio, TX
www.vmware.com
We're talking apples to oranges here :)

I mean: You can't make free Hyper-V Server serve (sic!) as your file server, basic or HA - whatever. Technically you can (Google is your friend here), but in RL you can't because of an EULA violation.

You mean: mixing Hyper-V and SoFS roles. This couldn't be done with WS2012/2012R2, but it's OK-ish with WS2016 (MSFT doesn't recommend this still, but at least they don't ban this usage anymore).

actually with Server 2016 it is not a violation providing you use the storage spaces function.
new Server 2016 Hyper-V HOST can function as SOFS and also provides an option of distributed file system to be used in a cluster, eliminating the need for shared storage like SAN/NAS.
theoretically you can build out a couple of 2016 servers with storage spaces,
and add them up into a cluster putting all the internal storage ( local storage) into one big shared storage to be used by cluster and as file server for all the VMs running on it.
 

NISMO1968

[ ... ]
Oct 19, 2013
87
13
8
San Antonio, TX
www.vmware.com
Nope, it's not. See EULA and quote from it I posted above.

Will you have any windows VM's ?
Standard allows the Hypervisor to provide file services for HyperV from memory, not anything else but limited use SMB share I think is ok. Can't find the Microsoft doc now but if somebody thinks otherwise I can try to find it.
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
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@NISMO1968 ok let me try to find the Microsoft document. I am really sure I have seen a statement that (not free hyper-v) file services can be use to provide storage to hyper-v machines. (Ie limited use of the base install is allowed in this case)
 

NISMO1968

[ ... ]
Oct 19, 2013
87
13
8
San Antonio, TX
www.vmware.com
@Evan of course they can! The question was about "free" Hyper-V server, wasn't it? As long as you've paid your bills Microsoft doesn't give a ... about what you do with their now properly licensed stuff :)

@NISMO1968 ok let me try to find the Microsoft document. I am really sure I have seen a statement that (not free hyper-v) file services can be use to provide storage to hyper-v machines. (Ie limited use of the base install is allowed in this case)
 

Evan

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Jan 6, 2016
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Yes that's why I asked if he was using any windows VM's as then the option of using standard as the hyper-v host and then with the limited functions you still have the 2 x VM's available to use for whatever you wanted.

Don't disagree at all I don't see that the hyper-v free was able to do what was wanted , the license document i remember reading it in was certainly related to the paid-for versions.
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
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@NISMO1968 this is that I think I was referring to (maybe) when I was talking about the paid for versions using Hyper-V, Its not as clear as I thought or maybe I was thinking another document, I could swear storage services was explicitly mentioned.


For Windows Server 2012 R2, you do not need a CAL to access an instance of the server software running on the physical OSE if that instance is being used solely to do the following:

  •  Run hardware virtualization software

  •  Provide hardware virtualization services

  •  Run software to manage and service OSEs on the licensed server
And...

For each license for Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard that you assign to a server you may run, at any one time, two instances of the server software in up to two virtual OSEs on the server. If all two instances are running in virtual OSEs, you can also run an instance in the physical OSE solely to run hardware virtualization software, provide hardware virtualization services, or run software to manage and service OSEs on the licensed server.


http://download.microsoft.com/downl...vervirtualization_licensemobility_vlbrief.pdf
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
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That's the thing that document is apparently relevant for 2016 as well but anyway I guess for a home lab simply do whatever you want :)

Having said this if you have some exact text and link to the current situation let me know.